I have a friend who spent years with horrible throat pain and difficulty swallowing. She needed an operation but, with no insurance and no money, she couldn’t get help. She tried going to a hospital emergency room, but was told she wasn’t sick enough. She actually, seriously thought about committing a crime to get help, but didn’t because of her daughter. Finally, she was able to negotiate the morass of Medicare, etc and get fixed up with an expensive, multi-hour operation. The doctor told her if she had been able to get it treated early, it could have been handled in an office visit.
# 30 LibertyLover
It is very un American to say that we can’t. America used to be the country of solutions. Americans had a positive attitude toward the solutions of problems and we were able to overcome them. The fact is one of the main reason medical costs are so high is the overwhelming number of un-insured people receiving the most expensive type of medical care and being unable to pay the bill. What I am talking about is American citizens not undocumented people. The amount of waist and cost just in that area alone could easily cover everyone. Most of those people would require a very minimal cost of care because their treatment was only escalated to “Emergency” due to lack of preventive care usually brought on by lack of coverage.
Today it is the poor and unemployed that suffer but there may come a day where you will be denied because you drive a fast car or live in a particular city that has pollution. The bullshit ride that the insurance industry has been on for the last 40 years needs to end. As an American patriot I care about the citizens of this country even if I don’t like or agree with them they are my people. We CAN afford it. We MUST afford it. Anyone who say we can’t or shouldn’t isn’t an true American at least not the ones that I have been educated about. America is great. America has overcome. America can accomplish anything it desires. I question its desire to want to help those that can’t help themselves. That is not the America I know.
#34, Most of those people would require a very minimal cost of care
I find that very hard to believe. I haven’t seen any facts to back it up. Although we do have many examples of just the opposite.
The bullshit ride that the insurance industry has been on for the last 40 years needs to end.
I agree. We need to repeal the laws to permit the insurance companies to operate as they want and not according to market forces.
We CAN afford it. We MUST afford it. Anyone who say we can’t or shouldn’t isn’t an true American at least not the ones that I have been educated about. America is great. America has overcome. America can accomplish anything it desires.
Yes, but there is no political will to do so. Politicians stand to lose too much money by keeping the insurance companies in business.
I agree. We need to repeal the laws to permit the insurance companies to operate as they want and not according to market forces.
Let me reword that . . .
I agree. We need to repeal the laws THAT permit the insurance companies to operate as they want and not according to market forces.
Can we agree that prevention is the key to reducing individual health care costs?
Well, it’s working. Seniors like ACA.
#37, Yes, but the prevention should not be “free,” otherwise you’ll have 320 million people showing up because “it hurts when I do this.”
Ah yeah…That 70% in the McKinsey poll is based on attitudes and opinions, not financial or economic data. The problem is that as ACA kicks in, those attitudes and opinions may change, making that 70% stat nothing more than a fart in the wind.
LL #38…and then what happens?
I can sympathize with the guy. Heck, I have what is touted as a “Cadillac” medical insurance plan. It has a $30 co-pay for a doctor visit. But I’ve never gotten away with just the $30. That only covers dropping your pants and sitting on the edge of the cold exam table and reading a 10 year old People magazine. Anything the doctor actually does is extra.
Oh, and they charge $500 for some procedure, which the insurance contract negotiates down to $65, which is what I wind up paying unless I’ve already satisfied the deductible. So, the doctor’s office charges $500 and but gets $65, and the insurance company gets my (well my employer’s) premium but doesn’t pay a cent. Huh?????
But committing a crime in order to get health care is just the beginning. I joke that my retirement plan is to shoot someone who really deserves it and get set for life in San Quintin. Frank and/or Jamie McCourt were top of the list a while back. Taking them out could be considered a public service for which free room, board, rape and healthcare for life might not be entirely bad compensation.
#22 – Mr Fusion mistakenly said: “A hospital will only give treatment for emergencies.”
Nine Texans, 2,678 emergency room visits
http://goo.gl/1Ozm7
Roughly half of the 12+ million illegal immigrants in the U.S. don’t have health insurance, according to the Pew Hispanic Center. Like others who can’t afford medical care, illegal immigrants tend to flock to hospital emergency rooms, which, under a 1986 law, can’t turn people away, even if they can’t pay.
#40, Long lines.
#36 LL
How do you have a market driven solution to a problem with an unfair or lopsided market?
People cant easily vote with their wallets when their health/life or that of their family is at stake. The customer has no power in that relationship.
Conservatism is what bring down the great empires.
At some point, the entrenched monied interests end problem solving.
Health care in America is bad now and unsustainable even in the medium-range future.
Yet, the conservatives would rather break up the country than fix it.
MEDICARE FOR ALL!!!!!!!!!
#45, How do you have a market driven solution to a problem with an unfair or lopsided market?
That’s the point I was making. We don’t have a market. We have an insurance company run system that benefits them through law and regulation.
Until you remove the incentive for lawmakers to make insurance-company-favorable decisions, we will never have a market.
#46, MEDICARE FOR ALL!!!!!!!!!
How do you propose to do that?
#48…start by allowing people to buy into Medicare early.
Problem is, the insurance industry will pour a billion dollars into lobbying efforts to “make it impossible” via massive disinformation campaigns, and then buy off key legislators.
End of solution. There are lots of others, probably lots of real good ones, but the insurance industry is wealthy and expects to stay that way. They will pay nearly any cost to retain the status quo.
For those that DONT understand..
1. I can get BETTER medical coverage on the streets, then I can WORKING.
2. working, you can get coverage for MOST things, except dental and Eye care.
3. this has been happening for years..this is NOT RECENT. Dont blame his on Obama..
4. Medicare dont cover everything.. AND if you read ALL the paper work, you will find a small CLAUSE. That the money paid out to medicare can be claim after you DIE, against your PROPERTY..
>So, the doctor’s office charges $500 and but gets $65, and the insurance company gets my (well my employer’s) premium but doesn’t pay a cent. Huh?????
Looks like you are paying just to get the lower price. Kind of like a Costco membership. HSA plans lowers the premium to $50 a month. My premiums just went up for the first time after the passage of Obamacare.
#48, LL
The problem is too many people fail to understand the economics. Companies and users are taxed for health care. Oh, you might not like to call it a tax, but whether you call it a “premium” or “tax” is irrelevant. They are the same thing EXCEPT those premiums go to a private concern the taxed has very little or no control over. When taxes go to a government it is controlled by people we elect.
The total amount of money taxed to pay for our health system could be easily shifted from paying insurance companies exorbitant fees to a system that pays for value. The insurance companies currently take 20%+, soon to be 15%, for overhead. Canadian Universal Healthcare pays less than 1%. Medicare has a 1 1/2 to 2% overhead. Even the CBO found that private Medicare runs at a 11% overhead while traditional run programs run at less than 2%.
Well, besides destroying the argument that government can’t do things more efficiently than private plans, it does show there is sufficient waste in the privately run system that could be used to cover every American.
#47 LL
No, we have a profit taking system for Insurance company execs.
But even without that you don’t have a free market. How is an industry constrained by market forces when the forces are so unbalanced?
When taxes go to a government it is controlled by people we elect.
There is your GCE.
We elect them but we don’t control them . . . unless they send snapshots of their penis to hookers or try to pick up men in restrooms.
The problem is everybody is assuming the government is going to do the right thing. Never happen.
When you can show me an honest government that actually cares about who elects them, I’ll listen. Until then, it’s just unicorns on rainbows.
#55, LL
Nope. That is what happens when you elect Tea Baggers. Even most Republicans will listen to their constituents.
#52, But even without that you don’t have a free market.
How do you see that?
#17 – jbenson2: Fuck you. Just because you think you know everything doesn’t mean you do. My friend’s problem wasn’t an emergency, so they wouldn’t treat her in the emergency room. They told her she would have to be choking and couldn’t eat before they would help her.
You are like a pair ultra conservatives who used to have a talk radio show years ago who felt that if you couldn’t pay for medical care, you should die. Society and government has no responsibility to do anything for anyone. In other words, I got mine, screw you, it’s your own fault you got sick and weren’t able to become a selfish millionaire like me to pay for yourself.
#56, And so the name calling begins . . .
When are you going to explain why you would let a bunch of children burn to death while you save your wife?
#59, that was directed at #53.
#57 LL
How do you not see it?
If I don’t like a product or price I can do without or choose a competitor. The market picks a winner.
If I cant afford healthcare I get sick or die. There’s no market choice there.
#61, There are plenty of doctors who would compete for your services.
That’s like saying if I get hungry and can’t afford food I’ll die. You can always afford something to eat.
#62, LL
That’s like saying if I get hungry and can’t afford food I’ll die. You can always afford something to eat.
I don’t think you realize what you just wrote. The last time someone was attributed with saying something similar it was “so what if they can’t afford bread, let them eat cake.”
#63, I was hoping someone would bring that up. Good Job.
The government rations food for those who cannot to feed themselves.
Note the word RATION. Food stamps.
Those who can afford steak eat it. Those on food stamps don’t get steak every night.
Healthcare is the same way. Those who can afford the best care get it. Those who cannot get what they can afford, or what the government doles out to them through medicare and the like.
Yes, it’s horrible that not everybody gets the best healthcare available. But that’s life.
All other industrialized and many emerging economies provide some form of universal healthcare all at or more than half the cost as in the USA. When everyone is covered and FOR PROFIT systems are not skimming the system, good healthcare can be provided for all more cheaply than now.
If anyone was pro-business AND intelligent, they would be for Universal Healtcare. But some people will not accept lower costs for themselves if they perceive someone else is getting something as well. Imagine that?
Here is another way of explaining the Emergency Room: NO ONE IS TURNED AWAY–everyone is seen and evaluated. If you are “stable” and not in a life threatening or highly painful condition, then you will be discharged. If you are, you will be treated until stabilized, and then discharged.
EG–you are mega-buck rich guy and get stuck-up on a public street at high noon. The criminal steals your wallet and shoots you in the head. Ambulance comes and takes you to the ER. The bleeding is stopped but no ID so you are under indigent/emergency care. You are stable and not at immediate risk of dying. DISCHARGED VIA TAXI TO THE NEAREST BUS STATION. There’s your free market.