Fire crews and police could only watch after a man waded into San Francisco Bay, stood up to his neck and waited. They wanted to do something, but a policy strictly forbade them from trying to save the 50-year-old, officials said.
This was done to send the taxpayers a message. Most of the “public servants” in San Francisco make well over $100,000 and do not like cuts to their programs. It’s just that simple. This story will be much discussed over the next few days.
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Wow….
Just wow…
So a man attempts to take his own life by putting himself into a dangerous situation, and people are upset that the police/fire didn’t put THEMSELVES into the same dangerous situation?
How many times do you hear stories of someone drowning while trying to save another person drowning? And what happened to personal choice?
This man made a conscious decision to end his life. Let him. One less mouth to feed.
I was just gonna post something nasty, then I read my nom de flame, and I now feel contrite.
I don’t want my taxes going up to pay for the “rescue” of people who freely choose to suicide.
Where is the sense in that? How much empathy do the mentally ill deserve?===and I say: as much as they get.
If this had been a 10-year-old child drowning it would be a big deal but I just can’t get apoplectic over a suicide. I don’t want to see public money going to save “jumpers”.
I understand this isn’t the point, that this is an argument over funding for public services, but this case clouds the issue.
I was just gonna post something nasty, then I read my nom de flame, and I now feel contrite.
I don’t want my taxes going up to pay for the “rescue” of people who freely choose to suicide.
Where is the sense in that? How much empathy do the mentally ill deserve?===and I say: as much as they get.
I can see no funds for specialty training for water rescues, but seems to me the Coast Guard and others are still around? Was it the water setting or the nutbar setting that prevented rescue? Should “any” cop/mailman/city code inspector/etc be “expected” to wade into cold shark and luggie infected water to “save” the life of anyone this stupid? I don’t think so. A bus full of kiddies in car accident off the bay bridge? Seems like whatever is available and who ever feels up to the task should be given permission to do so. Personal freedom–all around the block.
Average earning for SF copper = $96K
Average earning for SF fireman = $49K
Guess if you’re in trouble in San Francisco – and you’re a bean counter – you would prefer that a fireman come to your aid.
I really hate to say this…
I doubt there was anything anyone could have done. This was an intentional act from an unstable individual.
This guy wasn’t someone who, say, accidentally drove his car into the water, or a 10 year old kid going for a swim.
When I read this in my paper this morning, I wondered, “waiting for what?” The tide to come in? How long does it take 60 degree water to kill you? There must be something here that I’m not getting. It’s about 115 degrees where I am right now and standing in 60 degree water sounds pretty good.
Poor guy.
>> Average earning for SF fireman = $49K
Damn, a small house in San Francisco costs over half a million. Good thing they don’t have a residency requirement.
Oh, and some guy went out into cold water to kill himself and nobody was prepared to follow him in. Call me heartless, but I can’t bring myself to condemn the firefighters. Let them take their risks saving people who actually want to live.
Is it illegal to enter the water and get this guy? What’s dumber in this case, the cops, or those that obey them?
Can’t wait for sarcastic, mainstream gay bloggers like Perez Hilton to say something like “Thank god another ugly one has died.”
Oh, yeah, I forgot the (ugly) man is not Kevin Bacon so chances are that he will be ignored altogether.
Something stinks about this story. How freaking “dangerous” could it have been if the water wasn’t deep enough for a boat, the Coast Guard should have brought in a Zodiac (a hard bottomed rubber raft with a motor), if that couldn’t get to him they could wade to him. Don’t try to tell me the CG Search and Rescue Team doesn’t have wet suits available for this very purpose.
I speak from experience. We would have been court martialed if we left a scene like this.
Has nobody here had any basic lifeguard training? The first rule of saving someone in the water is that you have to stay alive yourself. Sometimes that means doing nothing so that one person dies instead of two.
If you’re dealing with someone who is mentally unstable, suicidal and the situation is questionable it’s not worth it to waste the life of any public servant or concerned citizen trying to pull them out.
This does sound heartless but it’s a lesson that’s taken many lives to learn.
He had the wrong name to be saved. If that was somebody of fame they would have broke their necks to have saved him. O yeah just like the military the fire dept and police are paid to be in harms way. They chose that profession, not happy find another one. This is what is wrong with our world now no compassion for the fellow man.
A new twist on negligent homicide eh what?
Next thing they’ll be told to round us all up into FEMA camps……hey it’s what we were told to do…it’s policy. Maybe round some of us up into those ovens. We were just taking orders.
Get the story correct please. You do realize that San Francisco Bay has more cities in it than San Francisco? This happened in Alemeda, and its their fire and police that should be ashamed.
Oh but I bet if it was one of their own, they would have been fighting as to who would jump in to rescue the victim.
It just goes to show that cops and firemen only care about their own and the money the suck out of the public.
It’s a Beach City, for crying out loud. How hard could it possibly be to find a wet suit and a surf board, or maybe even just a jet ski??? Even if just loaners from a nearby shop?
How many small, shallow bottom boats were there in the area?
Either these guys really were making a point, or they were completely lacking in imagination. Or was the risk of lawsuit and losing their job so great if anything went “wrong” that they weren’t about to risk breaking the Official Rules (much like cops have “de-enforcement” zones that they won’t respond to because no matter what happens, the cops are completely screwed due to charges of racism and brutality if they enter that zone).
So tazers aren’t waterproof?
Wow, so many unknowns here. First of all, it shouldn’t be the state’s business to intervene in suicides when they don’t involve danger to others.
Second of all, while 60 degree water is not exactly pleasant, it is quite survivable for short periods, as the deceased demonstrated.
Third, as has been pointed out, this was Alameda, not San Francisco. The point may be moot since Alameda police and firemen most likely get similar pay to those in San Francisco, but let’s at least get the parts of the story that we know right.
Unless there’s something missing here, the authorities did what they should do (ignore him) but for the wrong reasons. Unless: Did the guy cry out for help? If not, well, suicides are sad, but are a personal issue between the individual and their own self, or if you believe in such, their God.
Still, you have to wonder what would (could?) be done for a cold water rescue of a victim of an accident or foul play. Any lifeguards about??
the average salary for police and fire in Alameda is 46-50K.
when I saw this reported in the news my first thought was why the hell didn’t they contact the Coast Guard? Oh, and the fire chief, who is an interim one that has only been in the position about a week, has already changed the policy and in instituting water rescue training.
The coastguard are now owned by the DHS – so they would rescue the guy, remove any bottles of water and nail clippers then throw him back in.
Hahahaha
“As for police, they didn’t have the gear for the cold water and couldn’t risk being pulled under.
“Certainly this was tragic, but police officers are tasked with ensuring public safety, including the safety of personnel who are sent to try to resolve these kinds of situations,” Alameda police Lt. Sean Lynch said.
“He was engaged in a deliberate act of taking his own life,” Lynch told the Mercury News. “We did not know whether he was violent, whether drugs were involved. It’s not a situation of a typical rescue.”
There are no lifeguards at the beach, said Isa Polt-Jones, a spokeswoman with the East Bay Regional Park District. Signs at the park advise swimmers to enter the water at their own risk.”
1. Didn’t have the gear so no saving lives, hahhaa
2. Rather wait and save the person(s) willing to help the dying man…ahahahaa
3. Suicidal man, not a typical case for them…Buwaaahahahahahahhahaha
4. This is the new fad people…just get your own “…at your own risk” sign and you’re safe from the authorities! You won’t even get help if you wanted it anyways…hahahahahha
Made my day 🙂
#19 Drive By Poster, I agree with you. Their lack of action was inexcusable. I don’t want these public employees to risk their lives, but their apparent desire not to do anything is disturbing.
Just as disturbing is how many others on this blog, especially those who usually take a rather liberal view of issues, don’t get it and are actually making excuses for these guys.
First rule of rescuing somebody who is drowning: Don’t get in the water unless you are trained for water rescues, and then (and only then) if you have exhausted all other alternatives. This is not a liberal or conservative thing. It’s basic rescue training.
This is clearly a strange situation since the guy wasn’t panicked and that’s the main concern about trying to save someone who’s drowning, -that they will latch on to you and pull/push you under. It happens all the time unfortunately.
It’s not at all clear what this guy would have done if someone had gone after him. He might have been dangerous or would have willingly come back in.
How many people have tried to kill themselves by standing in 60 degree water? I doubt it’s something the responders had any experience with, but you would hope somebody would have approached the guy and at least tried to talk to him, – from a safe distance.
I covered this story for local news.
FIRST: It was ALAMEDA,CA police and fire.
SECOND: The fire dept does not have any certified water rescue firefighters due to the need to re certify yearly, and the budget won’t allow it.
THIRD: The Police NEVER wade into water to rescue a suicide attempt.
FOURTH: Both agencies rely on the US COAST GUARD to provide rescues on SF Bay.
FIFTH: The Coast Guard sent a helicopter which arrived too late.
SIXTH: The water was only five feet deep and the man was over 100 yards off shore. No large water craft could negotiate the shallow depth.
SEVENTH: The city would be liable for civil lawsuits if they attempted to rescue him using UN CERTIFIED personell.
See how screwed up the facts get? Even here on this Blog.
It’s tacky for John to use this very sad story to take a cheap shot at public employees.
BTW, John, how much do you make? Just curious. You rush into any crack houses for salary?
Thanks SR9, for the details.
Most of us on blog are smart enough to know that these inflammatory blog entries are almost NEVER what they seem.
>> # 6 moss said, on June 1st, 2011 at 6:57 am
>> Average earning for SF copper = $96K
>> Average earning for SF fireman = $49K
I tried to discover if the average salary in SF really was over $100k but couldn’t find it.
I always wonder where the Right Wingers get those numbers.
One way they do it is to take THE TOTAL PERSONNEL COST and dividing by the number of employees, totally ignoring that fact that some of that money pays the pensions of retired employees.
Conservatives pulled this mathematical lie when they made those ridiculous claims about union auto worker wages.