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Animby–is FREEEEEDOM found in the recitation or the doing? But I assume you are being obdurate, and thats perfectly fine when accompanied by more than mere repition. Over time, you start to look like you are saying the pledge. Ha, ha.
#41 – Bobbo:
Obdurate. Sort of.
I respect everyone’s symbols. To a low level. If that means sitting quietly while they promote mythology, or stand idly for a couple of minutes while Roseanne Barr grabs her crotch and screeches an old English drinking song or even while some brain dead children recite a couple dozen meaningless words before they start another day of spitballs and PB&J sammiches. Observing people’s idolatry is like oiling a wheel. Things just go better and it doesn’t cost me much effort.
To #39 Squire Holdfast: I lived in England for several years with my, then, wife. I have to say I found the British to be the most class conscious people I have ever experienced. As for the Pledge? I will say in defense of my country that we are encouraging devotion to an ideal, an ideal we often fail to attain but an ideal never-the-less. You goofy Brits prefer to sing your allegiance to a person! Tch, tch, tch:
God save our gracious Queen,
Long live our noble Queen,
God save the Queen:
Send her victorious,
Happy and glorious,
Long to reign over us:
God save the Queen.
Yikes!
@Animby
I am not sure where you went while in the UK. I have met class conscious people here but they are pretty unusual. Most people here have problems recognising legitimate authority, whatever that is.
Did you ever talk to one of our police? They are finding it harder and harder to do their jobs because nobody under 30 gives a **** what they say. You can’t tell people to “move on” very effectively if they tell you to get stuffed.
The last time I saw a group of people spontaneously stand up for our national anthem, they were all wearing uniform. I suspect that many teenagers do not even know the words…
Perhaps you are mixing up class consciousness and good manners? Being polite to someone even when drunk is a survival tactic.
Of course we have wealthy people who went to expensive schools. Heaven help you if you talk like it on a friday night in town near here.
Perhaps you have heard that many/most of our leaders all went to those same “good schools”. They probably did. So did yours and everyone else’s in Western Europe and North America.
Animby–very fair response but I think you are missing the very reason I LOVE AMERICA: it is free, as much as a place has ever been besides one person on vacation on a deserted island.
I really do “hate” ceremony and protocol. If I’m allowed to not follow it, I will. I feel like a hypocrite though, no matter what I do.
Aggravating—having to be part of something other than me.
I’m watching a three part presentation by Jonathan Miller on “Brief History of Disbelief.”
Interesting. His guest says that “ritual” is the basis of religion and is in us all. Communing with the unseen.
Ritual = Ceremony = Pledge = Religion.
Hmmmmm. At least I’m consistent.
Bobbo,
I agree. We love our country because of what she is. NOT because she has a fancy flag. We love our country even with the flaws and the right wing nuts who lie and invent disharmony. We love our country because we can and do solve problems. We love our country even though those who would deny their fair tax responsibility. We love the beauty of our nation in spite of those who would sell the beauty to the highest bidder.
>> bobbo, the evangelical anti-theist said, on May 30th, 2011 at 4:34 pm
>> Interesting. His guest says that “ritual” is the basis of religion and is in us all. Communing with the unseen.
>> Ritual = Ceremony = Pledge = Religion.
Ritual or community? I think I could make a case for either but would tend towards community.
Ritual is way for a faith community to express religious sentiment.
But the ritual comes _from_ the faith community, not visa versa.
Mr Fusion–exactly so. Thank you.
Greg–it wasn’t my idea==it was that guy on Jonathan Millers tv show. The emphasis was on “communing with the unseen.” Community doesn’t make sense from that viewpoint. People form a circle, thats a community==now what do they do? After other things, they get around to communing with the unseen and that evolved to religion.
Whatever winds up maintaining/causing religion is just as bad as anything else, and “as defined” I think that ritual makes more sense as it came first. But, I know your god stands outside of causation.
Its a small point. Keep posting—show those heathens the light!!!
Great sketch! This has nothing to do with right versus left. Things are the way they are because of the rich. Money is what rules the USA at the moment and there are very few who openly oppose the ruling dictators.