 douchebag |
I’m surprised he isn’t on an island beach somewhere with the $100 million+ he scammed from his followers.
The man who said the world was going to end appeared at his front door in Alameda a day later, very much alive but not so well.
“It has been a really tough weekend,” said Harold Camping, the 89-year-old fundamentalist radio preacher who convinced hundreds of his followers that the rapture would occur on Saturday at 6 p.m.
[…]
“The issue is the Bible is mythology,” said Larry Hicok, state director of the American Atheists, bluntly laying out his case. Roughly 200 people attended the hastily scheduled conference to discuss the impact of organized religion on American culture.“Every ruler needs a religion,” Hicok said. “Everybody knows that’s the way you get power.”
Saint Nicholas. Low on the hierarchy of the many gods turned into angels and saints. Still all knowing, judgmental, punishing.
Ha, ha. Yes, very traditional.
And as skeptical so poignantly pointed out, a failed god because he posits something testable.
Poor religion. A track record of 100% failure, but not proven wrong. Such is the sanctity of science.
#38, my dear Bobbo, you have devoted quite a bit of time and thought to my little screed. I’m sorry I didn’t give you more meat to chew on. (Apologizing too much: another of my character flaws). I am in an unusually communicative mood today. I’ve had a very bad couple of weeks and this is taking my mind off it.
As I’m sure you remember, I teach sociology. The sociological perspective is kind of a big deal in Soc. 101. I’ve just always been interested in everything and in how other people see the world and think about things. So I read all kinds of things, not just things that I think I’ll agree with (this is something else you and I have in common, and to clarify, since I think I’m not always getting my point across well, it’s a good thing). I listen to all kinds of people. I’m a social worker by profession. I find value in broadening my experiences.
When I talk to my students about Peter Berger’s definition of sociological perspective, I tell them to think of being in the classroom and simultaneously outside the classroom, observing. That’s a metaphor, like what Archimedes said. Though I’m not so sure he intended it as a metaphor; hyperbole, perhaps. However, I used it metaphorically.
You, Bobbo, are somewhat dualistic, are you not? This is another pitfall of Christianity which I directly assign to Thomas Aquinas – another ‘thinking Catholic’ – who tried to force theology based on Hebrew scripture into Platonic dialectic. When he died, he said, “All my works are straw.” I don’t think he was being humble. I think he realized what a corruption he introduced into the church. Sorry, Thomas. But I digress. You imply that if you are moral, I am not, and vice versa I assume. I think we can both be moral. I know many moral atheists, and though you are the first admitted anti-theist I’ve met, based on reading your posts, I’d say you are moral. In fact, you are a crusader and an evangelist for your viewpoint. Again to clarify, this is a neutral observation, not a judgement of values.
As to romantic love, if you say you ‘feel’ romantic love and you ‘feel’ its return, then I say I ‘feel’ union with the Divine and I ‘feel’ it’s return. Thousands of songs and books written about love? Thousands of hymns and devotional books. Inspired artwork? Ditto.
Research on the brain shows that people who report high spirituality have more connections in certain areas of the brain. Does that mean spirituality originates solely in the brain? Does this “love” we are talking about do so? Maybe yes or maybe no. I just think it’s fruitless (though intriguing) to debate.
I’ve never been a good debater, as you can easily see, but I am enjoying our conversation.
“I’ve never been a good debater, as you can easily see, but I am enjoying our conversation.”
I doubt anyone else is, though.
lynn–you dither so, just like an academic.
What CONCLUSIONS do you draw? I think none. And that is why you don’t debate well. You must take the argument to its conclusion. Don’t like that result? Try a different argument. don’t get lost in quoting other failed thinkers.
so, you don’t think Archimedes was smart enough to understand there was no other place to stand huh? Ha, ha. got to read it somewhere first? But actually hyperbole is the most accurate, I fumble because I use it metaphorically==as we all should.
“As to romantic love, if you say you ‘feel’ romantic love and you ‘feel’ its return, then I say I ‘feel’ union with the Divine and I ‘feel’ it’s return.” /// Fine and dandy but that is not all you say. Your union with the Divine does not stop with that recognition and its return or not. No. You go on to penitential rites and I’m sure much more. Not much introspection there.
Just dithering, quibbling, equivocation. Another triad, setting the conditions for a logic block.
Do you believe “anything” lynn, or just enjoy the repetition?
You got that right
Zybitch–you crack me up. Always the right word at the right time. Well done.
lynn–as I suspect you are just about ready to post your Opus Dei, let me say that while speedily created, I’m actually worn out by the serious consideration of your earnestly held positions.
Think I’ll go find a fulcrum. I will respond on return but it might be awhile, or not. Pesky fulcrums, and I won’t even go into levers.
@11
I’m with bobbo prosecute for fraud. His followers should file law suits and get back whats left of their money from the millions Camping is said to be worth. His wealth derives from false profits from a false prophet.
Us secular humanist(the smart ones) are just glad his followers didn’t go all Heaven’s Gate on us Jim Jones,Manson,Moses David,Pat Robertson,Kibweteere… at least they turned out to just be a benign amusement for the rest of Some thing we could use to point out how sill all these religions are an see how the rest of the True Believers(Alf) like to say one man’s religion is another man’s cult ours is the one true way.
Let’s be thankful most of the damage on this one was to peoples wallets and pride not life.
I guess the saddest thing is Camping and Alf really believe in this stuff because they are afraid of the dark.
Skeptic, if with walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it’s a duck. You can deny Atheism is not a religion, but their actions whether organised or not, proves it is and your denial only adds to the proof.
ok, I messed the wording in my post. This subject is bs anyway, move on…
I took a lunch break. No magnum opus or Opus Dei, Bobbo.
“lynn–you dither so, just like an academic.” Thank you!
“What CONCLUSIONS do you draw? I think none. And that is why you don’t debate well.” I don’t particularly desire to debate well. And, perhaps I am still in the process of forming conclusions.
This was really enjoyable! “Give me a lever and a place to stand and I shall move Bobbo.”
It’s really disappointing that all the Christians are still here.
Class action lawsuit? Defrauding the public? False advertising under color of fraudulent religious authority? Godzie scheme?
# 11 bobbo, DOGMA barks said,
“Silly Hoomans. Why aren’t these End of Days shysters fleecing their flocks of Millions prosecuted for Fraud?”
That’s tough to do when no tangible goods or services were promised. Might as well sue the Pope when your prayers for a Ferrari aren’t answered.
It might make a really good episode of Law and Order, though.
The God business is a thriving, tax free asset-rich industry with more power than world leaders and almost zero cost of sales (manufacturing), with Balance Sheets + P&Ls that can make an IRS auditor cry.
Its sad when religion has a blind eye to reality. This is what happens when you put too much “Faith” in one person. These follower’s need to open their eyes up and close their wallets.
Again I see people misdefining atheism so that it appears to be a belief that NO god of any kind exists. That’s a self-serving definition from people whose primary purpose in life seems to be serving themselves and their causes. Few self-described atheists would ever paint themselves into that corner.
I’m an atheist in the truest sense of the word, someone WITHOUT belief in a god. If you insist that an atheist is otherwise defined, then please don’t call me an atheist and then apply YOUR definition, leading to the conclusion that I’m still a true believer, but of a different sort. It’s this sort of attempt at equivalence that makes the misdefining of atheism such a self-serving exercise for Christians.
Misdefining atheism is the childish Christian way of saying “Neener, neener, you’re a true believer too, so there!”
I do, however, admit to having one firm belief CONCERNING a god. I believe that no omnipotent deity exists that wants to play any interactive role in my life, or it would have revealed itself to me and interacted with me. Such a deity would NEVER have depended on flawed human messengers to carry a second-hand (at best) report of its existence and intentions. I came into this world with five senses with which to perceive everything and everyone, and I have never once had any perception of a deity that did not depend heavily on my imagination. Unfortunately for the Christian cause, imagination is not one of the five senses I depend on to give me reliable feedback from the world I inhabit.
All deities have an open invitation to stop by my house for coffee and a discussion. Second-hand, second-rate, self-proclaimed messengers are NOT invited.
Cheer up, Harold. We all make mistakes. I mean, it’s not the end of the world…
BigBoy, re #49: if [it] walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it’s a duck. “
That’s the type of thinking I would expect from a Christian. The truth, however, is that if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, then it’s a probably a human acting like a duck, unless you also believe in talking ducks, which wouldn’t surprise me.
A more accurate analogy of your definition of an atheist, or atheism in general, using your application of adjectives and nouns, would be… “If you are feeling ducky then you are a duck.”
#57 Gary
Congratulations! The only sensible posting in this whole thread.
#51–lynn–I too am refreshed, but my meal has yet to come. Nothing but crumbs here.
Your main dither–you aren’t using your own insights, knowledge, critical thinking about YOURSELF.
Everything gets diverted and placed on others leaving you untouched. NOT empathetic. Its an academic failure, so keen in analysis, so void on application. “…and then the beast in the Jungle lept……”
From a wholly different thread someone complained the exchange was not a debate because the exchange had no winners or losers, it was not scored. But every discussion should be scored and the winner/loser selected by every participant==otherwise what you get is unthinking exchanges, stasis, no change, ritual, meaningless dogma–in short: Religion.
Amusing how the truth has its locus and is always displayed. Don’t try to move “me”–its irrelevant. Try to move yourself by your own values, insight, and truths. While I certainly look like I’m trying to move people, its myself I’m looking for all the time. The crowbar on the side of your head, was my fulcrum, constantly slightly moving myself. My earth is large, well formed, and well anchored==but with a long enough argument, it still moves if I can see the way.
Have you helped? Yes. Its been too long since I’ve had a good conversation. Corrected my long wrong use of Archimedes. I won’t change my use of the metaphor, I just won’t attribute my use to his hyperbole. It moves. Leaves me wanting more and a certain sadness that so many are trapped in their lazy ways even when a light is shown in.
I could go on.
#55–KD==let’s parse:
# 11 bobbo, DOGMA barks said,
“Silly Hoomans. Why aren’t these End of Days shysters fleecing their flocks of Millions prosecuted for Fraud?”
That’s tough to do when no tangible goods or services were promised. /// My direct thoughts were about Palm Readers “For Entertainment Purposes Only” must be communicated or its Fraud and is prosecuted. Palm reading, Bible Reading. I agree Camping probably was not asking for money for some entertainment purposes but I’ll bet anyone that wasn’t afraid of charges of religious bigotry could find “something.” Think of the Stock Market–anything based on a fraud will have an actionable fraud somewhere in the mix if you just look hard enough and want to find it. But this is Um-Merica and we give religion a wide berth==too wide.
Might as well sue the Pope when your prayers for a Ferrari aren’t answered. /// No one prays to the Pope do they? But yes, I agree, I think the Protestant Prosperity Gospels are and out and out Fraud: send me x dollars and you will be rewarded x10. Its fraud on its face and should be prosecuted.
It might make a really good episode of Law and Order, though. /// I need to watch that again. Still as good? Very much my kind of show. Premise, Counter Premise, evaluation, case reveals something else. Just what I always counsel.
The God business is a thriving, tax free asset-rich industry with more power than world leaders and almost zero cost of sales (manufacturing), with Balance Sheets + P&Ls that can make an IRS auditor cry. /// True dat and even when not a simple fraud in religious garb==its still a fraud.
Yea, verily.
#61 bobbo
“I could go on.”
Yes, you usually do. 🙂
What cracks me up about the silly argument that atheism is religion is that the propounder doesn’t recognize what he is saying about himself. It has that lynn level of insight about themselves. Reminds me of the joke I think Richard Pryor used to tell: “Mom never got the irony in calling me a Son of a Bitch.”
Is “not believing” a formalized dogmatized set of beliefs? I don’t think so but I’m willing to accept that as a working definition. Now, tell me how else atheism is like any other religion. Son of a Bitch!!!
Yea, verily.
Fred–ha, ha. But I don’t. These webbies are like napkins to a fine duvet. But I do find and appreciate the humor. Thank you.
I could go on.
Damn guys, the world didn’t end, the bible is fantasy, god doesn’t exist, and alfies still an idiot. Get over it and go outside. Bye
#60 Thanks, fred. You can see why simple logic has so often been proclaimed to be the tool of Satan and his servants.
This just in…… I float 😉
#68 Taxed Enough wrote, “As it requires omniscience to state with absolute knowledge there is no god, and as only a god is omniscient, you contradict yourself.”
In typical Christian fashion, you’re lying again. For the record, let me repeat myself: “I believe that no omnipotent deity exists that wants to play any interactive role in my life, or it would have revealed itself to me and interacted with me.”
Do you know the difference between saying “I believe” and stating with absolute knowledge, as you are claiming that I did?
With every post you make, you bring even more dishonor to the beliefs you claim to hold. Logic is never on your side, and you should quit misrepresenting the views of others in your futile effort to look less foolish by comparison. But mostly, you should just quit.
To repeat, I never stated with absolute knowledge that there is no god, as you claimed I did. Either your reading comprehension keeps sinking to new depths, or you are making yet another attempt to smear an atheist with another lie.
For the record, I also don’t claim to have absolute knowledge of whether you’re being dishonest or just a moron, but I’d be more likely to place a bet on dishonesty.
Who chooses to be dishonest when it is so immediately and easily proven so? Only morons. another demonstration of the false dichotomy of manipulated choices: no reason for the answer not to be: both.
Or in the political realm: a third position–often one of compromise. Yes–only morons and/or liars try to frame the subject as either-or.
Alfie is a liar and a moron. Lets not pack fudge on the issue.
Back from enjoying the day. Might I add.
http://tinyurl.com/447nrsp