gizmag
When most of us think of sunlight being used to generate power, we likely picture photovoltaic cells. Concentrated solar power plants however, use lenses or mirrors to heat fluid – such as synthetic oil – which in turn is used to generate high-pressure steam to drive a conventional turbine. A new experimental solar steam generation power plant that opened last week in southern Spain is aiming to improve on the efficiency of existing systems by using water as the direct working fluid and incorporating novel methods for storing the energy, so it can be dispensed even on cloudy days or at night.
No alternative energy can be good if it requires too much Government funding to survive. If it cannot compete then it will never become useful. Nuclear was also one of those great wonders that was supposed to save everyone a lot of money. But as we have seen in Japan. Its not worth it now. I am surprised that Hydro Electric has never taken off in this country. Water always flows. Its not like Sun or Wind that may or may not show up. Funny how we ignore the obvious because its too simple.
AlanB, I thought of that objection, but they have links to the actual Spanish study as well.
>what is your complaint?
Yes you are against both for poisoning the planet, but you consider the nuclear one to be the bigger problem.
I actually agree with that position for now. I don’t consider global warming a serious problem. Given your opposition to nuclear, it means you also don’t consider it to be a problem substantial enough that you are willing to adopt nuclear. So much for all your complaints about sea level rise, ocean acidification, etc.
Mike, from your link at #14==
Key points in this Outlook:
* The Obama administration, its allies in Congress, and the environmental community champion the benefits of green technology and the creation of green jobs to alleviate unemployment. //// Yes–AND–creation of green energy at home rather than remaining addicted to foreign oil controled in the Middle East. Did you forget that unavoidable benefit as well? No foreign wars? No more support for corrupt “Kings?”
* Green jobs merely replace jobs in other sectors and actually contribute less to economic growth. //// Yes, and there were lots of buggy whip makers that got put out of business. Its called a “disruptive technology.” Very well understood. You can keep with the old and miss the new entirely or take the hit as early as possible and get on with the future.
* Experiments with renewable energy in Europe have led to job loss, higher energy prices, and corruption. /// So?
Entirely idiot talking points from the AEI. I’ve never seen anything else.
#37 jescott418 “I am surprised that Hydro Electric has never taken off in this country”
Ever travel to Oregon or Washington state? Lots of hydroelectric dams. Hoover Dam. The TVA has 29 hydroelectric plants.
Check out what`Nate has to say-
http://bigthink.com/ideas/19184
#37 Hydroelectric energy accounts for over 20% of the energy generated in the US. In the Northwest, it accounts for 80%. The only reason it is not more is because we have dammed up every waterway we can except Yosemite Valley and The Grand Canyon both of which are better served in their present form.
Geothermal energy still has locations we can exploit fro renewable electricity.
Solar and Wind are the future of electricity. They currently provide only 1% of our electricity combined. Solar Thermal is the most efficient means of renewable energy, other than hydroelectric.
foobar,
Breaking Down Spain’s Green Jobs Spending
http://tnr.com/blog/the-avenue/breaking-down-spain%E2%80%99s-green-jobs-spending
Spain Unemployment Rate Surges To Highest In Industrialized World
http://huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/29/spain-unemployment-rate-s_n_815775.html
Now if we can just cover the ENTIRE state of california with mirrors the rest of us would have energy independence, and a little less glare than we have from that state right now.
Well bobbo, at least you acknowledge that job losses are the likely result of the push for alternative energy. The point is that many deceiving liberals like to claim that this push will lead to more jobs, green jobs, green for environment AND money. At least you realize this is not the case. Now if Pres Obama will just follow suit.
firstly i do not believe carbon is causing global warming, it is a intergalactic solar cycle amoung other things cause earth changes. that has been hijacked by teh commy greens to create a global tax to further enslave us.
However i also believe we should not pollute, which is great, and we should not burn the earths blood in order to get heat and energy.
(although i rekon it could be abiogenic and renewable with “peak oil theory” being a market price inflation tool based on the illusion of scarcity.)
The problem lies in the oil cartels and other corrupt corporate interests shelving and suppressing energy systems of the likes of “nikola tesla” or “john searle” among others.
there is cheaper vastly abundant energy available, and until it is freed and given to the masses we will be at the mercy of these energy monopolies and debating redundant points about solar wind etc. these are token technologies but until we harness the ether again we are not taking this issue seriously.
first thing people will yell is “conspiracy” or “prove it” ( as they have been trained by science and the media if something doesn’t fit their limited heavily indoctrinated belief system.), but if i did i would get two to the head, we need govts to place an amnesty and have support for engineers wishing to explore this area. it is unlikely tho as most vested interests have controlling stakes in industry and government and any attempt to reduce the profits of the oil robber barrons will be met with swift aggression.
if we did have to go to renewable, i would suggest having floating cites or powerstations tethered to the ocean floor, with the daily tide movements and buoyancy of the city, there would be a metre of so tide difference that could be harnessed with the over all mass to create a reasonable amount of energy.
tide goes in, city raises, line extends generator is driven, same as tide goes out, weight of city pushes down on a pole with a rope and this drives the generator on the way down. or just bring back tesla’s ideas and we can crush the oil cartels.
In The Friqn Morning.
YA know, I was just watching “Die Hard” the other day. And the black cop comes out of the convenience store to look at the tall office building, where John McClane is trapped. And he passes the gasoline prices sign. outside. And it reads “74.9 Regular”. That’s 75 cents a gallon. That movie was made in 1988. Hear we are 23 years later, and it more like $3.75 a gallon. And we’re ready to accept that because they keep telling us the world is running out of oil. But that’s not the reason at all. Nor is it simply a result of inflation. The price of oil is being controlled, much like the price of diamonds, across the globe. In spite of having tons of raw gems kept in reserve. The scarcity is an artificially created one. Just as the oil cartels hold back on production. And the oil refiners hold back on processing it into fuel. And they’ve convinced us that having less and paying more for it, is good for the environment.
Here they are now, scaring everyone with the radioactivity from Japan’s damaged nuclear power plants. But what about all those nuclear bomb tests, that were conducted out in the Pacific Ocean, to prove to everyone we had them. Followed by other countries like France and England. France was still blowing up the ocean, near New Zealand, in 1985.
And never did we ever hear about the fall out from these tests, traveling around the world, in the major press. But it did travel. And you can find web articles covering that subject, that the mainstream media refuses to.
http://theregister.co.uk/2004/09/06/nuke_test_fallout/
Big bottom line item is cost of construction. Operational cost, too. Like any energy plant. Keeping it simple, like this makes sense. In some places.
I like that “addicted to foreign oil” mantra, we’re always hearing. Even though little is ever done to change that dependence on a foreign source. It’s like saying we’re addicted to foreign bananas and coffee. Excuse me, but you CAN’T GROW THE DAMN THINGS in the USA. So why bitch about what the US can provide domestically. While at the same time allowing US jobs to be outsourced abroad. NOBODY in the media or politics is complaining that the US is “addicted to foreign labor”. Having millions of citizens out of work, well that Ok. But just don’t get too much oil from foreigners.
The US gets lots of stuff from foreign sources. And yet oil is the only thing that gets griped about. What about raw diamonds? We could mine them in a few US locations. And ever make them artificially. But the Gem cartel used its financial muscle to get commercial production of diamonds in the US, outlawed. And possible mining sites turned into state parks (mostly mud puddles). And you don’t hear too much about those diamond making processes, after they’re bought out. All to preserve the world wide monopoly, in sales. You can have such a monopoly in the US. So you can have diamond mining, to compete with the monopoly that does exist, abroad.
Not that I give a damn about owning diamonds. I think they’re the biggest waste of money, outside of industrial use. Stick to gold and silver for jewelry. At least you can get a fairer appraisal of metals, when you go to resell.
@deowll (April 5th, 2011 at 4:58 pm)
I’m a Romanian and my childhood was just like yours. My grandpa lead a life similar to what you describe. De died at 85. He was a heavy drinker, and smoker. Romanian old brand of cigarettes called “Carpati” is nothing like the e3xtra-light cigarettes you westerners smoke.
A lot of people in the village of my grandpa have an average lifespan of 70-80 years. Are you sure that “green” shortens your life or are you just some pussy that can’t handle this type of life?
Not that being “green” necessary means this type of life. People from rural Romania lead this type of life, because of their income, not because they love “green” stuff. But somehow their life is not short.
It’s actually people from urban Romania that have an average lifespan of 60-65.
Water ALWAYS flows. Perpetuum mobile. ALWAYS.
Case in point: seas and oceans.
Why the hell aren’t “da’ zcientistz and da’ politicianz” investing heavily into tidal wave energy generation? And sea water is plenty on this planet. Power generated from the sun is okay and investing in it should continue. But tidal wave generated power I believe could deliver greater yields. Just my 0.02$.
#3 & #7 The experiment is taking place at an existing coal-fired power station, which is why there’s a smokestack in the background.
Glenn–I CHALLENGE you to state in a single declarative sentence the point you want to make.
Go!
#46 ..deceiving liberals like to claim that this push will lead to more jobs, green jobs, green.. not the case
Argument doesn’t hunt. Conservatives bellyached for unemployed blacksmiths lacking horse shoes to build due to the Model T.
Get out of the way. The future of our economy, independence and technical leadership is at stake.
#56 You, the illegal alien sheeple is again clogging the internet with useless bits.
Some poor white child might die because the doctors medical records were not sent on time due to you clogging the internet. Think about what you’ve done. Shameful.
The Dept of Energy built a huge solar plant just north (east?) of Las Vegas in the late 70’s. I think it was 10MW. Mirrors focused the sun on a tower which had a boiler at the top. The steam then drove a turbine.
I saw a picture of it overlaid on a coal plant. The coal plant with 80 times the capacity (and 24/7, vs 8-10hrs/day) took up less land.
It could be seen from the Interstate and was still there 7-8 years ago when I drove from LV to Denver.
John Henry
We seem to get a lot of electricity from coal. Although many complain of the safety and health risks. I think we are stagnent in our thinking of energy. But Solar and Wind do not seem to be the Political solution. I live near a Wind farm and many times I go by and not a single one is turning. Even though the wind is blowing around 15 mph. We also have plenty of resistance from local residence about the Wind farm. Seems everyone wants change, just not in their backyard.
#59–john henry: Sounds like Nevada Solar One about half way down the page. I wonder if this “demonstrated” technology is being killed off like the electric car?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_plants_in_the_Mojave_Desert
Meanwhile the US and othere, in the clutches of GE and Westinghouse “Reactor Boys” contemplate our IRRADIATED FUTURE !!! Happy CANCER TO US ALL !!!
Spaniard here. Do not link for obscure links between green policies and unemployment rates. Collpase of the Construction sector is to blame, and incompetent Zapatero “corrective measures” made it worse.
In 1993, Spain had an unemployment rate of appox. 18%. (About what Ireland’s was which had dropped since the mid ’80s, as I recall.)
Spain adopted the Euro around 2002 or 2003. (It was already an EU member.) It continues to modernize infrastructure because most of the country didn’t go through the Industrial Revolution until the 20th century – an exception being Barcelona. It had the Spanish Civil War in the 1930s and a victorious Francisco Franco until the mid 1970s. The gauge of Spain’s railroad track was different than other European countries.
After Franco, infrastructure investment boomed. In northern Spain, major tunnels were bored for rail and roadways. When I went there in 1993, everyone remarked how the area had changed so much in the last few years meaning since Franco died. Most of the US Interstate Highway System was already built by this time. Spain began to accept a large number of immigrants. From 2000 to 2006, the population of the country increased something like 10%. The new arrivals had to live somewhere and this went along with the housing boom in prices and construction and later bust.
Spain became a laboratory for green energy in regards to technology, funding, R&D, methods of capital investment, etc. I don’t believe that’s what caused the downturn in the economy. What I’m trying to say is that A LOT was going on in the economy. It was worth it because the country didn’t have as much infrastructure before – of any type; green or conventional. (Italy, for example, imports almost all of its electricity from the north.) To argue against the investments is like arguing that the construction of the US Interstate Highway System put too many cars on the road which led to too much auto employment and thus more unemployment when the economy went bad.
#57, Wow, even Dallas acknowledges the President is wrong about green jobs!
# 59 John Henry and #61 bobbo, had enough dogma today? said –
The plant built in the late 1970s or early 1980s was in California near Barstow. I think the power was used for an Indian Reservation. Most coal plants are built for more customers.
I don’t know about that Cranky, not that it makes any difference to the point of “what the plant was” but the footnotes say the various/many plants around Vegas provide service to eg: “50,000 houses.” Thats HOUSES, not teepees. Don’t the indians restrict themselves to burning mesquite in honor of their dead grandparents, the rocks, or something? Cheese pizza?
MikeN, that’s interesting stuff. Thanks for the link.