CHICAGO (CBS) — Trace amounts of radiation from Japan have been detected in Chicago. As WBBM Newsradio 780′s Mike Krauser reports, travelers coming in from Japan on Wednesday triggered radiation detectors at O’Hare as they passed through customs. Only very small amounts of radiation were detected. In one instance, radiation was detected in a plane’s air filtration system. Radiation was also found in luggage and on passengers on flights from Japan.
Mayor Richard M. Daley and other city officials wouldn’t provide any additional details, saying federal authorities were handling the situation.
“Of course the protection of the person coming off the plane is important in regards to any radiation and especially within their families,” Daley said at an unrelated event.
The mayor said the city has no local policy when it comes to detecting radiation at the airports.
“That would be up to the federal government. Every city can’t have a policy. One says yes, one says no, you can’t do that. You have to have a federal policy dealing with anyone entering the country in regards to the situations like that,” Daley said. “And they handle it very professionally and it will be up to Homeland Security. We’ve been working with them. They have the primary responsibility.”
Chicago Aviation Department Commissioner Rosemarie Andolino confirmed that at least two planes tested positive for elevated radiation levels.
What a mess..
Newer designs??? Chernobyl was a newer design… How did that newer design work out?
The pebble bed reactors that Germany abandoned because they were to damn dangerous? Is that the new design you were talking about?
Also I direct you to reactor 4. You know the one that is currently subtly permanenetly increasing the world wide background radiation level Chernobyl style…
That reactor didn’t even have fuel in the reactor core, AND IT STILL MELTED DOWN.
Nope I was on the fence for a long time. Not any more.
You folks are too pessimistic.
You just don’t know how to take the long term view.
Of course now we will block all new nuke plants so they’ll have to keep the old ones creaking along another 25 years. Because the only feasible alternative is more coal plants or cutting supplies. Given a choice between permanent rolling blackouts and newer plants (and no, Chernobyl is not a modern design) and doing nothing, we will choose the last. We will patch up the aging pressurecookers and then complain when they fail and leak.
For years I was told that “flying airplanes increases your risk of cancer due to increased radiation exposure at altitude, think of constantly getting extra x-rays.”
On news last night for the first time I saw some actual objective facts:
Number of Sievert Units considered lethal: 4
Number of Sieverts in daily normal exposure: .0054
Number of Sieverts if you fly: .0056
Lethal of course is defined by at that exposure 50% of people will die within some length of time and evidently some people get 1000’s of Sieverts with no ill effect?
And as Mike N says, Ann Coulbert reporting on the “bright side of Nuclear exposure” some 10K people in Taiwan lived in buildings built with Cobalt 60 imbued cinder blocks and when discovered it was found their death rate from cancer was 20 times less than folks not living in such contaminated buildings.
Ain’t science great?
# 31 GregA said, “Chernobyl was a newer design…” Sire it was a newer design. Newer than any other in the Soviet Union of 1970 when it was built! Are you insane or just plain stupid, Greg?
Reactor 4 melted down but didn’t have any fuel in it? Okay. Stupid it is. It’s the fuel that melts when it gets too hot. It’s fuel that generates the radiation that makes it get hot. Somewhere in that chaotic mind of yours there must be what you consider to be a rational explanation of how no fuel could result in a meltdown and the world’s worst release of radiation. Just dying to hear it.
You lefty greenies can’t have it both ways. You don’t want us to burn coal and oil and you don’t want nukes. There isn’t enough flat land to install solar panels and windmills to power the nation. You just won’t be happy until we’re all living in caves and driving pedal-powered cars, will you? Back to you, Fred. Or are you Barney?
“Of course the protection of the person coming off the plane is important in regards to any radiation and especially within their families”
Can someone explain to me what this quote from Mayor Daley actually means? Or is it just the usual mindless blathering from a politician who had a microphone shoved in front of him?
Ohhh, ohhhh, ooohhhhhh! Animby. So Hostile. You used to be so erudite and polite. Great bedside manner, calming, always a delight to see walking up the garden path. Now, I’m afraid you will start yelling and criticizing us poor plebeians. Bad cocaine batch?
Greg makes a clear statement to me. The No 4 plant was not in operation at this event. There was no fuel in the power generator but the building melted down because the fuel in the spent fuel pool got uncovered, catalyzed the steam/metal combo into hydrogen gas and exploded releasing radiation. You do know spent fuel is stored on site and spent fuel presents more potential radiation harm than the reactor itself?
It really hurts when you call me a lefty greenie when all I’m doing is the best for humanity that I can. Who in the world would burn Nuke or Coal if there was a cost competitive alternative that was clean? Would you do that Animby? If not, then you are rather silly to reject the counsel of lefty greens. What are you? A righty of what color or persuasion? What color is a stuck in mud Luddite? Shit brown? Ha, ha.
And please, please, please don’t leave out we lefty greenies also don’t want to use oil either. And yes, there is enough “area” to collect all the green area the earth needs==and we could probably already have it in place if we subsidized green energy to the same degree coal, nuke, and oil were subsidized instead. Seems the righty shit browns forced their agenda down all our throats.
but a cleaner future is coming, I can tell. So bright, I gotta wear shades.
McCollough
Where did you find that picture? It looks like a great antique.
Whether you are pro or anti nuke, the fact is that major damage has been done to the industry’s credibility, which was not good to begin with.
For years the experts pooh-poohed the idea that a plant could fail in such a major fashion because of all the great design and redundant systems. Chernobyl was a crap design that didn’t count and 3-Mile was very poor decision making by the operators. Well now, we clearly see that it is possible for a plant to fail catastrophically due to natural causes and poor siting of your backups (there is a reason ships have their backup power on the top decks).
In addition, Tokyo Electric’s continual message of being in control while the plant suffered multiple fires and explosions has been ludicrous if not criminal.
Even if a true fail safe plant can be designed, public opposition of the NIMBY type will prevent any new plants being built in the US for decades. Time to ramp up that clean coal program.
#36 “There isn’t enough flat land to install solar panels and windmills to power the nation.”
A lot of areas they want to locate windmills in are in migratory flyways. Sort of killing two birds with one stone. Typical Tie-dye shirt thinking.
#39,
I live less then 12 miles away from a reactor that has the exact same design as these reactors. The building on site even looks like these buildings.
Everything is in containment, except for the waste, which, as news to me, also has the potential for a criticality accident.
They also do dry cask storage in the parking lot, which tells me that every space in that cooling pool has a fuel rod in it.
Now that we know the modes of failure for this exact type of reactor, it seems to me that some terrorist types would be considering the possibilty of simply hijacking a plane and crashing them into the reactor building, and boom criticality accident, and all the blathering about the oh so great and permanent and immovable containment structure becomes irrelevant…
So for now on, please refrain from the NIMBY pejorative, because it seems I have a valid reason to not want one of these things in my back yard.
#40–NextLie==Yes, the danger of windmills to birds, bats and whatnot was not at first recognized. Now it is. Vertical rotater designs can be used when bird kill is an issue. Other tech to be developed over time. Surely, you are posing as intentionally ignorant?
The future is so bright, I gotta wear shades.
#40 “A lot of areas they want to locate windmills in are in migratory flyways. Sort of killing two birds with one stone. Typical Tie-dye shirt thinking.”
1: Birds can see.
2: Windmills are not fans. They do not spin at high RPM, and will not suck birds into the blades.
3: Migratory patterns are not so inflexible that a building of any type will significantly alter or remove them.
Typical NIMBY thinking.
The only “Safe” Nuke is the one that was NEVER BUILT !!!
#39 GregA
No offense intended. I do not consider the expression a pejorative. Simply shorthand for the fact that local communities are the most involved when building decisions are made. Sorry if my choice of words was poor and my intent was mistaken.
I live near the old Rocky Flats plant and have seen many times the local opposition that rises when local populations have their BS Meters pushed into the red by “authorized spokespeople”.
Bobbo
What will happen when we cover 10 or 20 million acres with solar panels? What will grow under those panels? Probably nothing. What will happen when it rains on the panels and the bare land beneath? The topsoil will wash away. What will happen after the topsoil washes away and the wind blows? Can you say Dust Bowl? Solar advocates do not deal seriously with the major land use issues that will develop when hundreds of thousands of acres of panels go up.
I’m not saying solar can’t be a large contributor to our power supply. It is worth doing but no one is considering the environmental issues that large scale implementation will bring. It will not be a completely benign technology.
All energy technology is a faustian bargain it seems. Every technology comes with an economic and environmental price tag attached.
As a practical matter when I look at energy resources around the US, I see a future (next 100 years) built on gas and coal.
Bobbo – I was a bit on edge. Lost a kid today to a snakebite. Little I could and it took all day for the boy to die.
I do not know and don’t have the energy right now to look up the Chernobyl incident so I will take your word that the fuel that melted down was in the spent fuel pool. The point remains, there WAS fuel. There is no meltdown without fuel, as GroggyA suggested.
As for your contention that there IS an alternative to oil and nukular electricity generation: the United States used something like 4 BILLION MEGAWATTS last year. There is no way any anticipated solar/wind tech will come close to supplying that much.
By the way, I wonder sometimes about all those windmills. Don’t they disrupt the natural flow of the wind? What are we going to do when we find out they contribute to climate change?
Now, if you’ll excuse me, there’s a bottle of cheap Chilean cabernet calling.
Hmm, Bobbo, I’d missed that article. Appears another blogger was stealing from Coulter, or perhaps it’s the other way around? Coulter’s column provides much more detail and also mentions that half the Hiroshima and Nagasaki survivors are still alive.
#37 Chuck
Trying to explain what a politician meant is treacherous ground but I’ll take a stab at what His Honor meant.
In nuke plants and bomb programs in the early years there were some instances of workers who manged to contaminate themselves and bring small amounts of radiochemical contamination home to their families.
One goal of any rad safety program is to stop contamination from moving on. Given the nature of humans in that we walk on our feet, shoes are the most likely item to be contaminated in any situation. Hence the emphasis on feet and shoe screening. Besides, I think a lot of TSA types have a foot fetish thing.
Animby
I don’t mean to use your name in a pejorative way. What cheap cab are you drinking? I like cheap Chilean cab also.
#46
An environmental study was conducted by the state of michigan a few years ago. Fully developed, just the lake michigan side of Michigan, developed into off shore wind, would provide 2 TRILLION megawatts.
It looked like there was going to be development of that resource, then fuel prices fell below $100 a barrel again, and I haven’t heard anything about it since then.
Given the ebb and flow of the political process, it would seem the only option is the exploit these situations when they happen and get at least a partial solution.
I have read that the Dakotas have enough potential wind power to supply half the US’s electric needs. The problem is half of the US population would have to live there to use it.
Wind or solar will require a large investment in the electric grid before we can economically move the power from the distributed collection system to the population centers where it is used. I don’t see that happening.
Another area where our lack of energy policy is limiting our choices.
# 48 Blind Stevie said, “I don’t mean to use your name in a pejorative way. What cheap cab are you drinking?”
That’s okay. I reached the age of pejority many years ago.
It’s something called Bodegas. Comes in a box. Three liters 800 baht. Last time I checked that’s about US$25. In Thailand that’s cheap because imported wine (and there’s essentially none domestic) has a huge tax on it.
#49 GroggyA – You need to document such an outrageous statement. After all, you claimed a meltdown occurred with no fuel. And, as our blind wine connoisseur has observed, even if true, it isn’t going to help Florida if it’s generated in Michigan. You can’t just pump the stuff into the grid and watch it flow all over the country. And even in Chicago, they occasionally have a day without wind…
ANIMBY
Thanks, I’ll see if I can find it here.
Even in Chicago they have an occasional day without wind. Not as long as there are still Chicago politicians!
Oh my bad I documented it…
It is merely 321 gigawatts.
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dleg/s_offshore_potential9-29FINAL_2__255935_7.pdf
Put another way, about three times the gross consumption of the state of Michigan.
That is only Michigan offshore winds.
If all the other states got in on the action, just the great lakes region could power the part of the country where, you know, all the people are.
Also, for anyone still stupid enough to think that after all this it isn’t that bad, Japan just announced that they are getting ready to bring the Russian Chernoboldome experts to entomb the whole site.
YOU KNOW, I am struck by the number of people here who “use” their intellect to nay-say the beauty of scientific advancement: “You can’t do xyz because of this gnat that just bit my ass.”
When you don’t swat that fly away, its just stinkin’ thinkin’.
Identify the problem—pick the best solution(s)—rinse and repeat.
You are ALL guilty of this. burning sequestered carbon is killing this earth–the one we live on. Problem: we got to get off carbon. so, sure, use carbon but only as a recognized transitional fuel that is green. No oil, no methane, no coal, no peat etc.
Green Energy’s time came 40 years ago and we’ve been missing the smooth easy transition every year since. Benefit is that science has continued with all kinds of advancements.
The point of green energy is much of it can be developed in NON-CONCENTRATED/INDUSTRIAL formats. Don’t need 15 square miles of productive farm land covered by cells. Turns out if all the roads in USA were made out of solar cells, ALL our energy needs and quite a few other distribution/collection issues would be solved as well. No additional space/environmental use issues at all.
How about roof tiles capturing enough energy for each home owner and the cars he drives? No additional farm land needed there either. Probably have to install a windmill to keep the birds off it too.
All you nay sayers are just righty shit brownie LUDDITES.
Future is so bright, I gotta wear shades. Shades with shit wipers and ear plugs, but shades none the less.
animby–Chernobyl was a blown reactor with no containment structure. The Building No 4 in Japan is what I thought Greg was referring to and that was a stored fuel reaction while the reactor itself was shut down. Or something. All these years and clinical detachment has not isolated you entirely? Thats a good thing. Keep the balance.
#56
There are hundreds of reactor complexes exactly like this one all around the world. In all of them, the spent fuel is not stored in any sort of containment structure, other than the pool of water, and some weather shielding in the roof.
Get rid of that water, or even just stop cooling it for any reason… And you have a criticality accident like what we are currently witnessing
It doesn’t matter if the actual reactor containment system works 100%, you still get a meltdown and meltdown type effects…
#56–Greg==yep. I’m watching News from Germany and a commentator is saying the Japan meltdown possibility was documented in reports 30 years ago: nothing new, nothing “unthinkable”–just an instance of the known and accepted risks.
Fun to watch the shill-heads in USA address the topic with such certainty: “Of course, Nuke energy will continue to play an important and growing role in our “non-carbon” energy production.” blah, blah, blah. Course, with the stupidity of the PUKE voting base, and the corruption/perfidy of the PUKE Overlords, he may be entirely right for the USA. I can see the rest of the world going off Nukes, while USA and France continue forward.
Shortsighted, stupid, hopeful. Magical non-think. Bad risk assessment. Status quo rutting.
All kinds of alternatives, no will.
#56 You must be a shill used to generate traffic on this blog.
I can’t believe any normal human would willingly display such ignorance or maybe you just fell in love with your own reflection in a pool and are oblivious to anything else.
What marked the arrival of Green
Energy’s “time” 40 years ago man of science?
What process burns sequestered carbon?
“Turns out if all the roads in USA were made out of solar cells”
I assume this means the street in front of my house too.
“Future is so bright, I gotta wear shades”
It sure isn’t because of your brilliance.
I will check back for answers, take your time. I know you will be on here.
You don’t want us to burn coal and oil and you don’t want nukes. There isn’t enough flat land to install solar panels and windmills to power the nation.
There is enough land for both, wind and solar. Their problem is consistency. Wind has the added benefit of allowing agriculture to continue except for the small footprint of the towers.
Coal and oil should be a back up to the other forms of renewable, clean energy.
Nuclear is just too expensive. It can only be done with government subsidies and there still is no place or method to deal with spent fuel. Since the last plant was built, it hasn’t been government interference that hasn’t built one. It is the fact there is no private money to build one.
2 trillion gigawatts? That seems a little high.
If you were Japanese you’d have to be crazy or poor not to take a nice 30 day vacation to the Florida Disney World right now.