Oregon Live – Thursday, February 10, 2011:
Marin-Fuentes left his Southeast Portland home sometime between midnight and 12:30 a.m. Thursday and drove in his black Kia 1.4 miles to Portland Adventist Medical Center.
Suffering a heart attack, he crashed into a steel pillar and wall inside the first level of the hospital’s parking garage, below a sign that read “Emergency parking only” about 125 feet from the emergency room entrance.
No one noticed him for about 20 minutes, hospital officials said. But once a bystander did, the person flagged down Portland Officer Angela Luty, who was leaving the hospital’s emergency room on an unrelated traffic case.
Two minutes later, Luty and a second officer, Robert Quick, found Marin-Fuentes unresponsive and unconscious in his car in the parking garage, and began cardiopulmonary resuscitation.
Two other officers who arrived ran into the ER to seek help from medical personnel, and were told to call 9-1-1 for an ambulance, Portland Sgt. Pete Simpson said.
“Hospital said they won’t come out,” Officer Andrew Hearst radioed to dispatch. “We need to contact AMR first.”
The officers were stunned.
“It’s certainly very frustrating for the officers who are not medical professionals in a hospital parking lot, to be told they have to call for an ambulance to help this man. The officers didn’t stand there and argue, they continued CPR,” Simpson said. “But they were in disbelief.”
This is similar to some bean counter in an insurance company’s benefit office refusing a medication or operation resulting in unfortunate medical consequences.
Now is a good time to check out the new CPR method involving continuous compressions. It is more effective in most cases and does not involve mouth to mouth contact.
There is nothing worse (to me) than to come upon a person dying and not being able to help them.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=EcbgpiKyUbs
#30 – Reagan
Well said Reagan!!
I am the proud father of an Eagle Scout who saved a girls life when she was chocking and possibly would have suffered brain damage had not my son had the knowledge and been willing to take the “risk” and save this girl’s life.
What society do YOU want to live in?!
#29–Reagan==you should read a whole lot more carefully than you do. Lets parse:
#28 bobbo
Speak for yourself. /// Who else?
There are still people in the world, /// Never said or implied there weren’t
willing to risk everything for their fellow silly Hoomans /// everything?? Well, I think you are taking a good and positive “value” and idiotically turning it into a dogma of masturbatory self indulgence.
and fuck all the lawyers and their lawsuits. /// They are but servants of the law.
Come at me, Bro! I put my trust in jury nullification. /// No need. You fall of your own weight, or really just blown away from lack thereof.
…and so it goes… /// I think its gone.
#32 bobbo
I love it when you stop dead in your tracks, then advance furiously in the opposite direction under a thick smokescreen of inane verbiage.
You are a Jedi master of Blogging…
…and still… …so it goes…
😀
#32
> and $%^! all the lawyers and their lawsuits. > /// They are but servants of the law.
And the law is US! Does “we the people” ring a bell perhaps?
We can change this society if we decide to act or we can make it worse if we choose to ignore our fellow man in his time of need. It is up too you.
Reagun==my other website is down, so lets parse again?:
I love it /// ah, love. Treasured even when destructive.
when you stop dead in your tracks, /// must be a relative motion trick, ie=you going backwards, because in my elevator, I’m just trucking on.
then advance furiously in the opposite direction // very confused metaphor comprising no analysis, just rhetoric.
under a thick smokescreen of inane verbiage. /// projectile fecal vomiting.
You are a Jedi master of Blogging…/// “Your position damages the force. Turn back. Read.”
…and still… …so it goes… //// I think your world ended in Ice.
Moshe: you were invited to use your intellect, not put on your snow shoes and go outside to play in the snow.
You, and other suffering from the inherent hypocrisy or naivetee so natural in someone who actually doesn’t engage the real world, are FREEEEEEE to do as you wish, help anyone you wish, do as you will within the strictures of the law. Why won’t you allow others of opposite/differing values the same FREEEEEEEDOM?
Now, either engage the various questions offered, or continue to buzz around the droppings.
Suppose the guy crashed two blocks away. Same whining? Three blocks? Four blocks?
Parking lot is outside the hospital. They are not responsible for anything outside the hospital.
Not their fault. The cops should have brought him in. Nobody mentions that obvious solution.
#31, #34 Moshe
I was remiss in not saluting your son. Perhaps there is some faint hope for us as a semi-civilized society after all.
#35 bobbo
You’re doing it again.
😀
…and so it goes…
Colt: I’ll bet, and would recommend, that obvious solution is not permitted by department regulations, for obvious reasons.
How many here already have the take away lesson presented here in SPADES: if you need ER care==call the freaking paramedics even if you think you could drive. Don’t be a stupid PUKE and drive yourself into a ditch.
Beyond that, remember we are all but a fluke of the universe and the universe doesn’t care.
#31
I’m also an eagle scout and proud of it. I am happy your son was able to help but unfortunately, I continued my education and received a medical degree. You son is a layman and as such is immune from prosecution under “good Samaritan” laws as long as he wasn’t malicious in his intent. These laws do not extend to trained medical professionals regardless of their specialty. As such they could be sued as if the person was his patient. Unfortunately, my malpractice, as with most others is specific to what procedures are covered and I know I would not be covered for providing help outsode of the office or hospital.
#42–jcost==quit whining. Mostly, you are wrong. I’ll bet you heard the opposite once and that was all you needed to hear? Will docs be sued? Sure. Will 99.9 percent of cases be thrown out? Sure. Is the gap filled by your own moral sense whether you like it or not? Yes. Learn/critique the following:
http://ezinearticles.com/?New-Yorks-Good-Samaritan-Law—A-Good-Deed-Goes-Unpunished&id=1564360
#36 Booboo
I will make it clear for you since obviously you are missing the point. I am not talking to you, that would be pointless and a waste of words, not to mention electrons.
I am talking to other people are reading this thread and may happen to come across someone who needs help today.
As the great Viktor Frankl, author of “man’s search for meaning” once said”
“We who lived in concentration camps can remember those who walked through the huts comforting others, giving away their last piece of bread. They may have been few in number, but they offer sufficient proof that everything can be taken from a person but the last of the human freedoms, to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.”
Spoke to a lawyer friend. His prediction: Although the only person in the wrong was the patient who failed to call 911 here is the scenario. Contact the family and get them to agree to name the hospital, the doctors, the police, and Kia (that’s right – they failed to post a placard in their car warning of the dangers of driving while having a heart attack). You never expect it to get to trial but if you get past the motion to dismiss (easy depending on the local judges). you can push for a settlement (extortion). As the case would be costly, especially in publicity, you could easily calculate a settlement based on age, job, family etc. 80-100k could be expected. say 30k profit to the firm for about 20 billable hours of work. That my friends is the US justice system. Beautiful ain’t it?
So Mushy==what part of “human freedoms, to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances…” eludes you?
If I were in the camp, and some dude strolled by and would not share his food with you, what would you think?
I would think he was exercising his FREEEEEEDOM and caring to his own needs first with slim to no ability to help anyone else, just as I would do.
Shake the sand out of your vagina and be honest: somedays you get the elevator, other days the shaft. Life is like that.
#18 The whole notion of seeking an ‘imperative’ to help a human being is bizarre coming from you!
I thought inhumanity was the domain of Republicans. In fact traffic laws are written to “encourage” Republicans to rendering assistance to a stranger in a tragic traffic accident.
Never mind Republican laws… To you point,I was going to say that what separates “humans” from animals is, well, “humanity”. But then I thought, hey, I’ve see more sympathy between animals in animal planet!
# 31 – jcostedpm
Congrats on all of your achievements! (my son is currently studying at the undergrad level for a bio-chem degree with the intent of obtaining a PhD and/or MD)
What does it say about our society when a person such as you is afraid to assist someone in need for fear of losing all?
“We the people” are the LAW. WE can change the law. We need to change the law.
Bobbo
Checked your link, First I’m not in NY so the law does not apply. Second and most importantly, the law does not cover “gross negligence” . The test of “Gross Negligence” for a Physician is worlds away from that of an untrained passerby. I’ve had classes in this and have been advised to render assistance by calling 911.
#48–Doc Whiner==well, alrighty then:
http://epmonthly.com/features/current-features/good-samaritan-statutes-when-do-they-protect-you/ ((Note the entirely negative tone while all the lawsuits support good Samaritan immunity?))
I doubt you have a lawyer friend, much less talked to one, no basis for this other than my magic eight ball. Anyway, such advice is scaremongering and you have been bamboozled by those big Corp Interests I clued you in on way above.
Laws differ from state to state but they hone in on common themes–not the boogieman man of nonsense lawsuits being the controlling factor.
Be a man and stand up for your own decisions. Make those decisions based on your own self interests/feelings/morals/toutes les bonnes raisons?
Dallas: there is nothing more human than to be completely self centered with the caveat that oftem the “self” is seen in family members/clan members/fraternity members/country and so on in diminishing strength. Your reference to animals is inane.
blame Darwin and the hypocrisy of the Christian church. Not me, I just report the facts in a fair and balanced way.
Hmmm. My vision is blurry at the periphery. Should I call an ambulance, or could you come over? I”m only 1500 miles away? Ha, ha.
#48 jcostedpm
Wow! You are precisely the doctor I do not want!
I wish there was some way you could post your real name and address, so we could all avoid accidentally ending up in your care.
I know, I know. You’re rich and you want to stay that way. God Bless the USA!
jcostedpm said, on February 12th, 2011 at 7:28 am
There are several reasons this man was not treated in the parking lot. NONE having to do with his insurance status. First, it is doubtful, the hospital mal practice insurance covers treatment outside the building. This leaves the physicians open to litigation as they are nit covered under “good Samaritan” laws due to their training. As a physician I was taught that if I see an accident call 911 and let the EMTs do their job. Many well meaning physicians have lost their homes and savings when unscrupulous lawyers go after them when a person they are trying to help dies. The first thing a lawyer would say in this case is…”With all that advanced cardiac care machinery 125 ft away why were you working in the parking lot”. If the Docs tried to move the man and injured him in the process the tack would be “Why did you move him you should have left that to the trained EMTs”. I can think of several other scenarios for disaster to the hospital. Sad to say but our litigious society makes it difficult to help others. Just look at the comments, most hope he ends up owning the hospital. Sad.
There is SO MUCH wrong with your comment. First, the Good Samaritan laws do cover such an incident as here. They were enacted to prevent medical personnel from being sued.
In this case, the Good Samaritan laws won’t protect the hospital. It’s called “Duty of Care” and is the basis of most medical lawsuits. In case you didn’t read the article, the victim was already on Hospital property.
Reagan–buy a clue. The decision of a doc not to render good samaritan care says nothing about his ability to render care when paid for it. Two different issues. Conflation = Stupid Non Think.
Ed–I don’t think making it onto hospital property is the line, but I’d have to look it up, and I don’t have that interest level as I assume the cases will (should) vary state to state. The whole issue is how far away is reasonable to require and while the hospital property is one line, another one is the ER door==all for the same reasons.
in #10, Moshe said: “Have the lawyers really driven us as a society to lose our humanity? This is just an abomination. No other words can describe the feelings of disgust I have for this hospital and it’s staff. Somethings you just do because they are the right thing to do irregardless of the consequences!!!!!!!!!”
Lets deconstruct this screed into single sentences: Have the lawyers really driven us as a society to lose our humanity?
The answer is yes because its the lowest common denominator. If you don’t do that, some relative, or even a third party, is going to sue you into oblivion, aided by those same lawyers.
The rest if the screed is just outrage talk so we can ignore it until: Somethings you just do because they are the right thing to do irregardless of the consequences!!!!!!!!!
Lawyers will make you care about the consequences.
The only thing to do is to beat the living crap out of a lawyer and toss his broken unconscious body in the street in front of the hospital.
Needless to say, I don’t recommend doing that.
It wouldn’t teach the other lawyers anything anyway.
#42 Curious then – if you happened to be out to dinner with your wife and someone from the next table was either choking or experiencing a heart attack, what would you do? I can’t blame you for taking the stance that you do – things are quite a mess from a legal perspective.
#54 bobbo
OK, I’ll purchase a clue – for one dollar:
You have a point, slightly rounded but still a point.
Consider this: He doesn’t give a shit if you die in front of the hospital or anywhere else he might get sued but he does give a shit if you die in the hospital?
I don’t think so.
Character is character. A lot of people simply have none, no matter your perspective.
bobbo electrons are going to waste as I scroll, quickly, past your posts.
Find an alias; or better yet, find something relevant and/or intelligent to say.
8thNote==how do you know the law is a mess in this area? Why do the two links to cases above not convince you otherwise?
Do you think the rule should be: anyone can do whatever they want to to someone who is unconscious, ill, or needing help and no lawsuit at all can be filed against them.
What “position” do you think the law “should” take?
Reagan–the force is with you. Just think some more.