For the record, I have never considered this issue anything more than a distraction. I am beginning to wonder….
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Ah_Yea#23,
That is an outstanding list. The media didn’t do much investigation during the election campaign.
Yesterday I was talking to a very lovely girl who said she was taking a class at the University called Photography for Journalism. I asked her what kind of camera she was going to use. She said none was required — they just had to pick out photos. I don’t think they are training the current crop to do their own exposing of reality, they can just use things from the Ministry of Truth.
I was born in Jersey City, NJ, my kids 28 years later where also born in this town across the metropolis called NYC. And because of corruption our Birth certificates aren’t worth a dime ( new ones had to be ordered in Trenton, easy for some folks other folks no record of their births).
My mom who was born in an undisclosed island, has two birthdays ??? The day she was born, and the day the records got sealed by the town (two days later) a paper with a wrong date and a misspelled name.
I’m OK with the one he printed from his HP printer.
Replying to Ah_Yeh:
You said:
Here is a partial list of records that Obama refuses to release or has hidden from the public .
(1) the original, long-form 1961 Hawaiian birth certificate, has never been released. It’s available, so why not release it and get this over with?
Answer: There is a very simple explanation. Obama has released the official birth certificate of Hawaii. There are two reasons why he does not release the original: (1) He does not have it. Hawaii has not sent out the original since the short-form became the official birth certificate in 2001; and (2) It is not necessary to release the original because he has released the OFFICIAL and because the facts on it were repeatedly confirmed by the Republican officials in Hawaii and the former Republican governor of Hawaii.
Re: “Marriage license between Obama’s father (Barak Sr.) and mother (Stanley Ann Dunham) — not found, not released..”
Answer: So what? Was the marriage license of George Bush’s parents released? Clinton’s? Reagan’s? There is no law that says that a president or a candidate has to show her or his parents’ marriage license. If you would like, however, you have the right to ask your congressman to pass such a law.
Re: “Obama’s baptism records — sealed”
Answer: So what? Was the baptism records of George Bush released? Clinton’s? Reagan’s? There is no law that says that a president or a candidate has to show her or his baptism records, and you know–some may not even have been baptized. If you would like, however, you have the right to ask your congressman to pass such a law.
Re: “4) Obama’s adoption records — sealed.”
Answer: It is mere speculation that he was ever adopted.
Re: “5) Records of Obama’s and his mother’s reptriation as US citizens on return from Indonesia — not found, not released”
Answer: Since neither of them ever lost US citizenship, there is no need for repatriation.. If either of them had ever lost citizenship there would have been a document, since loss of US citizenship can only be done IN writing before a US consul–and there is no such document.
Re: “6) Name change (Barry Sotero to Barack Hussein Obama) records — not found, not released..”
Answer: You are speculating that he legally changed his name. Yes, he used his stepfather’s name, but there is no evidence that he ever legally changed his name. A call to the Indonesian Embassy (but you will probably allege that they are now part of the conspiracy) will show you that Obama never legally changed his name, nor was he adopted, nor did he ever become a citizen of Indonesia.
Re: “7) Noelani Elementary School (Hawaii) — not released.”
Answer. This is an excellent example of why Glenn Beck, Ann Coulter, and Bill O’Reilly consider birthers to be crazy. Not only has no president or candidate ever released elementary school records but it is highly likely that they do not even exist anymore.
Re: “Punahou School financial aid or school records — not released…”
This and the remaining points can all be answered with this: Such records are private for all individuals and there is no law that says that a president or candidate has to show such records. If you would like to create such a law, by all means contact your senator or congressman. Until then, he doesn’t have to show those documents, but he might–IF his Republican opponent in 2012 shows similar records.
If he wasn’t born in Hawaii – where is the proof? Where’s your documentation? How is the short form can less valuable than the long form? If this is a cover-up, than why wouldn’t the ‘shadows’ come up with a believable forgery?
Birthers are behaving like bugs in a jar.
An aside: How many of you know who was the first president born in the United States of America – w/o looking it up? Yeah. That’s what I thought.
Re: “Granny – ever been to Kenya? A large percentage of births there do not get registered even today. 1961?”
I agree. But if you look back you will see that I was replying to someone who claimed that Obama was both born in the USA AND had a Kenyan birth certificate. As you have pointed out, even if he were born in Kenya he might not have a Kenyan birth certificate. But the individual that I replied to claimed that not only was he not born in Kenya but that he had a Kenyan birth certificate (which seems pretty unlikely to me). So, I replied, why not ask? If there were a birth certificate, Kenya would know about it.
Birthers claim however that Kenya is part of the conspiracy and that even thought Obama was born in Kenya (most allege this) his Kenyan birth certificate has been hidden and that the Kenyan embassy would lie about that fact. But this applies only to the allegation of birth in Kenya, not to the speculation that he was born in Hawaii and still had a Kenyan birth certificate.
To the allegation that Kenya is hiding the birth certificate, I reply that IF the Kenyan government tried to hide the birth certificate, it would be extremely unlikely that Kenya would be so efficient that it could not merely hide the birth certificate (and records of Obama’s mother’s arrival in Kenya in 1961) but that it could hide the fact that it was hiding the documents.
You know when public files are taken away and hidden, people know about that fact, and our CIA or diplomats, or freelance journalists would learn about the hiding, and the mere hint that there were files hidden in Kenya would spark an investigation. WND has claimed that Kenya has taken the birth certificate files and hidden them, but no one else has confirmed it, and as I said, if Kenya were hiding files, it would be very unlikely that the fact that it was hiding them had not been discovered.
The question is why is he so uptight as to spend millions to block access to what should be absolutely neutral information about him? Nobody else has ever done this.
As the progressives like to say when talking about government intrusions if you have nothing to hide why are you getting so upset about people knowing things?
I haven’t been able to come up with any explanation for his behavior other than he thinks he has something that needs hidden.
Some options are his mother never married his father. The reparation paper work never got done, etc. His grades stank and he has serious connections with some seriously unsavory people.
If he thinks his past is something that doesn’t bare being bared I can only assume he knows what he’s talking about.
Re: “The question is why is he so uptight as to spend millions to block access to what should be absolutely neutral information about him? Nobody else has ever done this.”
Answer: In our system you have to reply to every lawsuit against you, no matter how stupid. And it is perfectly right that he fights to protect his rights because that also protects the privacy rights of other candidates and presidents. The “millions” allegation was made up by birther sites.
The Wall Street Journal put it this way:
“Why has Obama spent X dollars defending himself against lawsuits when he could just produce the original birth certificate and make the whole thing go away?” X varies, just in our emails of the past 24 hours, from “thousands” to “almost a million”; one reader set the amount at “$950,000.” As far as we know, all these estimates have a common source: thin air.
In any case, while this question sounds eminently reasonable, in fact it betrays a complete lack of understanding of the legal process. The “defense” against these frivolous lawsuits has consisted of filing a motion for summary judgment, which in every case has been granted.”
Re: “why are you getting so upset about people knowing things?”
Answer: I believe that we have a right to know about corporations, but not necessarily the private details of the past lives of officials. But, if you would like to change the law to force disclosure, by all means call your congressman.
Re: “other than he thinks he has something that needs hidden.”
If you read most of the lawsuits, you will find that in virtually every case the plaintiffs ask the court to declare that Obama was not eligible to be president.
Re: “Some options are his mother never married his father. ”
They did divorce, which makes their marriage likely. Moreover, if you take a look at the original birth certificate form, the one that is shown for the Nordike twins, you will see that there is no place on it to show whether the parents were married or not married.
Re: “His grades stank and he has serious connections with some seriously unsavory people.”
Answer: That might be true, but so what? Lots of presidents have had lousy grades. However, I will bet you that IF the Republican candidate shows her or his grades in the 2012 election, Obama will do the same. And, I will bet that Obama’s will be a lot better than the Republican’s.
Re: “If he thinks his past is something that doesn’t bare being bared I can only assume he knows what he’s talking about.”
As I said, he has a right to keep his grades, the people that he lived with while at college, etc–all private. There is no law that says that he must show those details, but if a Republican shows them in 2012, Obama is likely to do the same.
This is a non-issue. “IF” he had been born in Kenya, or the far side of the moon, he would have still been “a natural born citizen,” because his mother was a U.S. citizen. That would make him a “a natural born citizen.” Why no one has pointed this out has baffled me. MEH!
These snafus over birth certificates are really unfortunate. Jesus was never able to show an official certificate to prove that he was born of a virgin, so he was eventually disqualified from being the Savior, but many people still followed him anyway.
So very, very sad.
That’s because he doesn’t have one.
Doesn’t one have to show some papers or birth certificate before they even become President?
I think it’s a bunch of bs…leave Barack alone. He is all you guiys have to get some respect from the rest of the world. Now go ahead and tell me I am stupid, wrong or whatever.
A certain percentage of people who engage in political debate just want to argue.
Let’s say Obama wasn’t born in the United States:
How can this ever be proved? The hypothetical absence of a birth certificate isn’t proof of anything. The absence of proof isn’t proof of anything.
Besides, it is a bit late. He’s the president.
This is one of those distracting and purposeless exercises of futility.
Yawn.
Here’s the birth certificate, scanned, photographed, touched, dissected:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
Of course, facts don’t matter in this case. It’s a “religious” choice, with people just looking for whatever sorry excuse for an explanation helps them rationalize whatever it is they want to believe in. Cue the X-Files theme.
Benjamin in #17 said: “He is a fascist. Evidence is the fascist health care plan he passed.”
You are entirely correct.
Why are employers being asked to bear the entire burden of health care, except for Medicare and Medicaid, when millions of people, potential employees, are being neglected?
It is unfair to the corporations to have their pool of potential employees neglected by the state.
They are supposed to make their products as best they can and not have to worry about externalities like heath care.
What we have right now in the United States is Health-Don’t-Care.
@ #45 — Just to remind folks:
“Fascism is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology. Fascists seek to organize a country according to a particular nationalist strand of corporatist values and perspectives, with an emphasis on enforcing a collectivist form of political and economic organisation based on a tightly prescribed national identity. (…) Though normally described as being on the far right, there is a scholarly consensus that fascism was also influenced by the left, but with a focus on solutions from the right.” (Wikipedia)
Rings a bell?
ROTFLMAO
Dude, “World Net Daily” is an almost entire fake “news site”. They’re as historically credible and the National Inquirer or The Onion. It’s a fake rumor site that is always quoted by idiots and then debunked a few days later, but the idiots NEVER follow up or pay attention to the debunking.
What a joke…and Obama is a space alien here to steal our Childresn souls! I heard it from Matt Drudge…pass it on!
OH MY GOD you people are STUPID!
There is not bigfoot/alien/Obama conspiracy! There long vs short form has NO meaning! If it was faked, it’s EVERY bit as easy to fake the “long form” and shove that in a folder as the “short form”…neither one is harder or easier to fake. If someone 40 years ago put a ‘fake’ short form in Hawaii’s system, they could have put a long form too…it’s the SAME thing with just more fields typed in. It’s not harder to fake.
F**K you people are stupid!
Just like the Jesus is coming back in 1500, look out for Y2K, here some 2012! YOU’RE ALL F**KING IDIOTS! Obama will win re-election, or not, and 50 years later everyone will look back at the right and laugh their asses off.
IF the governor does release this, the wingnuts conspiracy crazies will just say THAT’S fake.
You can’t use reality to “prove” something to people who believe in magic and conspiracy theories. NOTHING could ever theoretically change their minds. They have a magical belief, and facts will never counter that.
Like most people I just thought the whole birth certificate controversy and the idea that Obama was born in Kenya was just crazy shit. I’ve thought that until fairly recently when…frankly…I’ve started to wonder if Obama & Co ARE hiding SOMETHING. Maybe not that he was born in Kenya…I don’t know what. But I do know that if someone asked, I can just get a copy of my actual birth certificate (I have a copy of mine) here in Massachusetts. I am wondering why Obama simply doesn’t produce his. The birthers are right in one thing: Certificate of Live Birth doesn’t necessarily mean the same thing as a Birth Certificate. I also don’t like the way the rest of Obama’s official records appear to be closed.
I’m also wondering what on earth prompted Abercrombie to start looking into this. That, by itself is very odd.
I do have to wonder if there is something strange or unsavory about Obama’s birth. Other than that he’s illegitimate (his father couldn’t be married to two women at once – at least 1 in Africa and 1 in the US). I don’t care, but maybe he’s hypersensitive about it.
The right wing nuts have a great penchant for inventing falsehoods. The WND is no exception to that. Regardless of the evidence, they will complain the offered certificate is fraudulent.
The birth certificate was produced, the Hawaii Department of Health director confirmed it was the one on file and is real. NO ONE outside the Sec. of State’s office is allowed access to the original.
Since this is a private, confidential matter, even the Governor is not supposed to have access to the document, only the Hawaii Sec. of State’s office through the Department of Health. However, due to the controversy, others have seen and touched the original
Every court challenge has failed.Orley Tait even ended being censured and fined $20,000 for her attempt. the others have been assessed court costs.
A copy of Obama’s certified certificate
Its been a while, I hope I remembered how to insert a link.
#50, show me,
The birthers are right in one thing: Certificate of Live Birth doesn’t necessarily mean the same thing as a Birth Certificate. I also don’t like the way the rest of Obama’s official records appear to be closed.
Nope. The birthers are still wrong. Every State has different forms and use different terms. Some are submitted by the physician or nurse, others by the mother, and some by the hospital. Hawaii has changed how they do their certificates.
Barack Obama seeks to keep his birth certificate private because there is evidence on it that he is the Anti-Christ, and that he was born not in Hawaii as claimed, but in Area 51 of the Nevada desert on a night when there was no moon and the wind blew with a deep, eerie chill.
Fortunately, the Birthers™ have seen through his clever ploys because they are blessed to have the wisdom of the ages at their disposal, not to mention their collective 6th-grade education.
(and a shout-out to the elusive Mr. Fusion)
No birth certificate, no marriage proof of parents, no divorce proof of parents….what can he prove. Most of us can prove at least two of these….seems like we got a phony running the country!!!
To Mr. Fusion #54:
If there is nothing to this, then what is Governor Abercrombie trying to investigate or prove? I don’t understand his behavior at all, especially as he says he knew Obama’s parents and seems to be an Obama supporter. I would think he’d just let this alone. Frankly, it’s Abercrombie’s behavior that makes me wonder if there’s something that is being hidden.
#59, show-me
There is nothing to this. The problem is the birthers will never be happy until Obama is out of office. They could be given ALL the evidence in the world and would still have a problem with it.
THE FACTS ARE: Hawaii has produced the birth certificate. The responsible authority has validated it. The produced birth certificate meets ALL the requirements of the US State Department for a birth certificate. The birth certificate meets ALL the requirements of every State and district of the United States. Every attempt to discredit the birth certificate in courts have been tossed out as frivolous.
You don’t like Obama, fine. You don’t have to continue to Barton the guy. Have you no regard for the truth?
#60, asshole,
The Hawaiian Certification of Live Birth isn’t a copy of a real birth certificate. They could be obtained by citizens who weren’t naturally born.
Very true. The “Live Birth certificate” is what is given to the State by the hospital AND includes the parents names and addresses, birth weight and length, and other personal information. We have one for our daughter issued by the hospital where she was born. In small print at the bottom it states THIS IS NOT AN OFFICIAL DOCUMENT.
There is absolutely NO evidence that Hawaii has ever produced a birth certificate for Obama’s sister. Under the Department of State rules it would not be acceptable. Of course that hasn’t stopped the right wing nut birthers from claiming they did. Just as nothing will convince them they vote against their interests every election.
#29 you make a somewhat convincing case that Obama was not born in Kenya, but you keep throwing out the they wouldn’t do this it’s risky, why lie, etc. The reason is it is easy to do. Why say he was born in Kenya if you can just say he was born in Hawaii? The risk of getting caught is very low, despite the consequences. Why would someone risk crossing the border from Mexico? It’s illegal! They might deport you or imprison you!
>getting the child naturalized is just as good as his being born in the USA.
Yes just as good but not as easy. Much easier to claim birth in Hawaii, than to take a risk with a naturalization process. His mom had to be 21 for automatic qualification, and she was a bit under 19.
#63–perfectly foolish Mickey==you say: “but you keep throwing out the they wouldn’t do this it’s risky, why lie, etc. The reason is it is easy to do.” /// Read that again slowly. One more time. Recognize you don’t give any reason at all for why ObamaMama would be motivated to be living (in Kenya?) and paying to have an announcement put in the papers in Hawaii. You gave a difficulty level. Not the same thing at all.
Fail.
In reply to Mr. Fusion #61
You’re being grossly unfair to me. I didn’t raise this issue: the GOVERNOR OF HAWAII HAS RAISED THIS ISSUE – for whatever reason, which is what I don’t understand. HE’S the one who has gone searching for Obama’s birth certificate. Up until this, I always thought that the birther stuff was crazy. I voted for Obama, although I am deeply disappointed in him.
Now with Abercrombie’s actions, I have to wonder if the birthers have been right – whether you like them or not. A stopped clock is right twice a day. There obviously is something wrong with Obama’s birth certificate. Even if he was born in Hawaii, which is most likely, there is obviously something irregular. Now the Daily Mail is reporting that:
Hawaii governor claims record of Obama’s birth ‘exists in archives’ but can’t produce the vital document
By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 3:32 PM on 20th January 2011
Read more: http://dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348916/Hawaii-governor-says-Obamas-birth-record-exists-produce-it.html#ixzz1BgYDGGI8
But it became apparent that what had been discovered was an unspecified listing or notation of Obama’s birth that someone had made in the state archives and not a birth certificate.
And in the same interview Abercrombie suggested that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Barack Obama may not exist within the vital records maintained by the Hawaii Department of Health.”
This is NOT me OR the birthers saying this. This is the GOVERNOR OF HAWAII. So what’s going on here – is this an attempt to kick Obama to the curb for the second term perhaps in favor of…say, Hilary?
Re: “And in the same interview Abercrombie suggested that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Barack Obama may not exist within the vital records maintained by the Hawaii Department of Health.”
Answer: That is a birther site, WND, saying that Abercrombie “suggested” it. But Abercrombie did not say it.
AND, we know that actually there is an original birth certificate in the file because two officials in the former governor’s administration said so in their first of two confirmations.
The fact that Abercrombie did not say “there is an original birth certificate in the file” and said that there was a document in the file may only mean that he has not seen the document, not having looked, or simply that he spoke quickly at the end of an interview. It is the two officials who stated in writing that they had looked into the file and seen the original birth certificate that count. And they had no reason to lie. The first confirmation was before the election, and they were officials in a Republican governor’s administration.