Aurora [Illinois] is trying to keep a little more than $190,000 it seized from two brothers after one of them was pulled over in a traffic stop that didn’t even result in a traffic ticket.
Officials have refused to hand back the money even though a judge has sided with the brothers. The matter is due back in court today.
Jesus Martinez, 27, was carrying $190,040 when his pickup truck was stopped by an Aurora police officer about 8:30 p.m. Oct. 18 near Indian Trail and Timberlake roads.
The police officer confiscated the cash, and the city has informed Martinez and his brother, Jose, 34, that Aurora will seek to keep it through civil forfeiture, a procedure that allows police agencies to seize property where the legal standard is lower than proof needed in a criminal forfeiture.
The brothers are home remodelers. Neither has been charged with a crime in this case, and neither has a criminal record, according to Kane County court records.
“I’ve never seen anything like this in 30 years of practice,” said Aurora attorney Patrick Kinnally, who is representing the brothers. A month after the stop, Kinnally filed a complaint arguing that Aurora had no right to keep the money. Eleven days after that, Kinnally and lawyers representing Aurora appeared before Kane County Circuit Judge Michael Colwell.
“Their lawyers basically said the city was going to file for forfeiture,” Kinnally said. “The judge asked on what basis. The lawyer said, ‘We don’t know,’ and the judge said: ‘This is America. Give it back.'”
Yeah, like that will work in Police State America.
Aurora used to be a good place to live.
It obviously isn’t anymore.
I could say more, but you’ll have to see for yourself.
The municipality of Aurora [Illinois] is emblematic of the childlike mentality operating in most governments.
“Possession is nine tenths of the law.”
They might have the $190,000 in hand, but they’re going to have to give it back because its not theirs by any stretch of the imagination.
Let them have to pay the lost interest on $190,000 OUT OF THEIR OWN PAYCHECKS.
Things will go a lot faster then.
FYI: Wayne’s World is in Aurora, IL.
I’ve been to Aurora. The place is a sh*t-hole.
Sorry, gotta do it…
Wayne’s World! Wayne’s World! Party time! Excellent! BrrrRRRRrrrRRRrrrRRRrrrRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrr!!!
And people wonder why they bomb federal buildings.
The city doesn’t care. No one will loose their jobs and if there is any penalty, well -that’s what us tax payers are for!
[AAAARGH! Lose not loose! – ed.]
Charge the entire city council (including the mayor) with racketeering.
#7 – oh wait, this is Illinois, so we’d have to charge everyone in the state (including Rahm Emanuel).
As always, the wiki gives a nice quick review:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset_forfeiture
I think chunks of cash should always be grabbed. Make the claimed owners show where they got it. Real people don’t walk around with chunks of cash.
Common sense.
#9 Bobbo – “I think chunks of cash should always be grabbed. Make the claimed owners show where they got it. Real people don’t walk around with chunks of cash.”
Are you being sarcastic? That doesn’t sound like libertarian you?
Brothers with the name Martinez who are “home remodelers” carrying lots of cash. Obviously can be assumed to be working under the table and not paying their taxes; probably here illegally too.
Best thing about being the police in this case is that they don’t need proof of anything, because they have the guns.
#5 And kill hundreds of random innocent men, women and children in the process. You defense of mass murder is EXACTLY the reason the 9/11 terrorist had. They were striking back at a system that overly kisses ass to Israel on all fronts and drops bombs that happen to kill innocent by standers in their countries. You and the 9/11 terrorists have the same reasoning, and you’re both insane.
Like all of these fake “just repeated” internet rumor stories. I have a feeling there’s a little more too it, left out of the article so it can be a half truth repeated “Fox News” kind of story. It doesn’t have to be true, it’s interesting!
This wasn’t just some “cops randomly stole my money” story. These are murdering shit head drug dealers. Seriously. The cops just f’d up on not having enough to charge them with FIRST. But they were known drug dealers. Golly when was the last time you know two people with no jobs who hung out all night in the streets and had $190,000 in CASH on them? That NEVER happens. They’re drug dealers and likely killers. F**K THEM and their supporters.
Monster, that is a good call since I have made the claim “I am a libertarian.” But any review of my history will show I also advocate pragmatism and common sense, one of which was even mentioned. (ha, ha)
So, whats the deal?
I think I am more a standard lib when it comes to free speech issues. Hence my nomination for Assange as “Hero of the World” award and multiple Nobel Prizes.
But I am also for a crime free society as much as liberty permits and there too very much like my free speech position: it is the TRUTH THAT I VALUE–not some dogma.
Common sense tells me there is a direct positive correlation between the size of the chunk of cash and its being the product of illegal activities. Cops should seize it in the rendition of their normal activities. Then the perps have a decision: let it go, or prove its source.
Given you are a criminal or an idiot to be in public with large chunks of cash, I feel my own liberties, and libertarian sensitivities, more at risk by criminals with chunks of cash than I do by the STATE.
In short: common sense. Its always a balance. Pro’s and Con’s to all we do. From the wiki it is interesting who should have “the burden” of proving the legality of the money but more important than that is the nature of the evidence allowed/required to do that. I don’t see how the State could have the burden and meet it without violating rights against self incrimination===but then thats all part of having to decide whether or not to “let it go.”
Can ANYONE provide a scenario where some guy is walking around with $190K and should not be required to say how he came by it?
Drug traffickers with a big sack of cash arranging a meeting to “deliver the package” in a Home Depot parking lot.
After reading the original article it looks like a major job of railroading. NO REAL EVIDENCE of criminal activity, NONE.
#15–to moi in answer to #11==Sea Lawyer–sorry to credit Monster with the inquiry. You haven’t been posting recently as much as Monster’s Lawyer and I got in a rut about who was making a reasonable challenge.
Also want to add this case in fuller discussion would also highlight the difference between the legitimate desire for privacy/confidentiality versus the illegitimate/childish/perverse desire for anonymity. There are close calls in balancing these two–not involved in this case. Want to be anonymous? Stay home where it will be protected by your confidentiality.
#15, 18
Seek help ASAP
Dear god – what a crack team of liberty lovers; this thread makes me ill. Need a scenario? Tons of people – immigrants mostly but not exclusively -DO NOT TRUST BANKS (do you?) and walk around with their life savings. I have done it myself after the IRS seized my account with no warning or cause. It took two goddam years to get my own money back – with interest but no penalty. Took me a decade to put another dime in a bank.
Maybe these guys are murdering theiving crack dealers – PROVE IT.The rules are the same for everyone or they aren’t rules. Every single one of you guys would blow a 50 amp fuse if this happened to you.
Yeah I know – you wouldn’t carry that chunk around, but what if ya did?
#15
Unless you cross a border without announcing cash in excess of reporting requirements you can carry as much as you want.
It isn’t a crime, and the police ought not have anything to do with it.
While burden of proof for seizure is much lower than a criminal conviction, but that burden still rests with the state.
If these guys aren’t suspects in some criminal activity they only need to plausibly explain the source and use of the money. They would have to sign for it, and doing so could cause a tax investigation down the line.
I don’t think the police have any business questioning money in absence of some other indication of illegality.
Yes, bobbo, I would unreservedly support the privacy of someone carrying large amounts of cash.
If you read the article, the city no longer has the money because it was subsequently seized from the city by the dept. of Homeland Security. Why? It doesn’t say.
Reminds me of the case earlier this year when the TSA took it upon themselves to seize some cash that a congressional aid was carrying on a domestic flight, and to arrest him for refusing to tell them where he got the money and what it was for. They pretended not to arrest him, but he was not free to leave until law enforcement was through with him.
Come on people. It is as simple as innocent until proven guilty. There’s no law against carrying around a buttload of cash. If the cops suspect these guys of being up to something, the thing to do is to let them go and keep a close watch on them.
What in the hell has happened to America ????
Looks like police have given the signal for justice to be served by the public directly, correct?
Just so we all know.
“What in the hell has happened to America ????”
See post #9, 15, and 18. Bad news.
Thank god we have “reasoning people” who don’t believe in the constitution! It’s just a “Dammed piece of paper” as our hero GWB said.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
I live 2 suburbs away from Aurora. There are bad parts and good parts but this is news here.
#1. The brother’s phone was tapped as they were suspected drug dealers. The cops listened in about picking up a package in a Home Depot parking lot. They waiting til the brothers were there.
#2. The idiot cops didn’t wait for the drop. They approached the brothers who had at that point did nothing wrong. The police asked to search the car and they consented with $190k in a sack in the trunk.
#3. That’s it. The cops took it and the brothers would like it back. Shame on the cops for not doing the job correctly. The police just can’t take what they feel like. The brothers were never arrested on anything.
#3. A judge told the city to give it back and they haven’t. The judge since retired and now a new judge needs to hear the case. So stupid.
$190,000 carrying around in your truck? You show me how you legitimately earned that money and then they should have to give it back, otherwise forfeit and investigate.
What if it was the equivelent in gold?
It is called a shake down.I think we have turned into the old Soviet Union.
I’m working on a “Year in review in 10 Amendments”.
I think I found my 8th amendment story.