Israel’s most politically influential rabbi has courted controversy by claiming that the deadliest forest fire in the country’s history was divine retribution for the failure of many Israelis to observe the Sabbath…
Ovadia Yosef, the spiritual leader of Shas, a powerful religious party in Israel’s coalition government, said there was little doubt that the fire was sent by God to punish his chosen people for their waywardness.
In his weekly sermon, the rabbi quoted a section from the Talmud, a central Jewish religious text, which proclaimed that “the fire only exists in a place where the Sabbath is desecrated”.
“Homes were ruined, entire neighbourhoods wiped out, and it’s not arbitrary,” he said. “It is all divine providence. We must repent and keep the Sabbath properly…”
For many ultra-orthodox Jews in Israel, Rabbi Yosef is the most important religious authority in the land and his comments drew little criticism from government officials wary of upsetting a powerful coalition partner.
Sound familiar?
#18
Amen.
However, is it not funny how those who claim to be the most religious pretty much always are the least measured by the religious standards they supposedly and loudly adhere to?
Actually the real religious people are usually quite decent fellows and go quiet about it.
Imagine there’s no heaven
It’s easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today…
Imagine there’s no countries
It isn’t hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace…
– from a Dreamer whose karma ran over his dogma
Wow. God is kinda a dick.
I find two things interesting in this repeating post:
1. Not the fact there are “religious leaders” that believe whatever you can think of and more, but that so many people will follow them, and
2. That people who don’t actually believe this fringe stuff will still defend and support their activities. Prime example here is Greg Allan who is very main stream and common sense about the “application” of his belief system to free people around him, yet he feels righteous in attacking those who criticize this nut bar. What does this lead to? People thinking religions are “ok” because they personally know people of faith who are reasonable people. But when push comes to shove, the peaceful silent majority of religious oriented faithful will be just that as the radical elements take over governments and take away personal freedom.
Its the argument you see today with Muslim strife in the Western World and it will only get worse with the Greg Allan types giving it indirect and vicarious support.
Silly Hoomans.
#39 “- from a Dreamer whose karma ran over his dogma”
Someones been watching TV lately.
And yet the right continues to support Israel… How is this any less ridiculous than what the so-called ‘Mulsim extremists’ say?
I say we withdraw recognition of and aid to any religious government. This includes Israel an the Vatican. While we’re at it, lets withdraw recognition and aid to any non-democratic government. Trade sanctions on all of them. We need to get back to business in this country.
See? It’s not just the Baptist ministers and Mullahs that are bat-shit crazy. Empirical Stupidity is everybody’s business.
Heh, heh. some with their kilts on backwards giving the world their brown stain will post: “How is this any less ridiculous than what the so-called ‘Mulsim extremists’ say?”
Last time I checked, if you tell a rabbi he’s an idiot he will remove himself from your presence. Tell that to a Fundie Muslim, and he will remove you.
Yes, all religions are nut based but that doesn’t mean they are all just the same. Just like everyone that wears a dress is not the same.
Basics.
#41, evolution isn’t chance, ignoramus. Also, please provide proof of your imaginary friend.
I suppose my ignorance of middle eastern geography is enormous. I was surprised to hear Israel had forests, of all things. Like others I think of all the middle east comprising sand and rocks. Next we’ll hear Israel’s vast inground pools are infested with zebra fish or some thing.
#44 Alfred wrote “I suggest the probable cause for that is, The God of Israel whom both Jews and Christians worship, exists. While those of other religions, does not. No need to get worked up over what doesn’t exist…”
I disagree. When Moses gave the order to slaughter the thousands of Midianite children taken captive after Israel’s attack on Midian, and ordered that slaughter upon the authority of the God of Israel, the fact that this God did not exist didn’t make this mass premeditated murder any less bloody or heinous. From the sheer numbers of women and children they killed, there must have been some sort of production line in their death camp.
People will continue to get worked up over this God that doesn’t exist as long as there are people who use the idea of God to justify their own acts of evil and terror. And people who believe that the Israelites were correct in carrying out this act of mass murder are themselves only one step away from repeating that travesty. As Moses, Hitler, and many others have proven, all it takes is a charismatic leader to convince the people that killing is the right thing to do, and Biblical precedents have already been set for the bloodiest of massacres, fully authorized by the Creator of the Universe.
Anyone not familiar with this grisly tale can read about it in the book of nightmares (the Bible):
http://biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers+31&version=NIV
Hey Alfie: maybe the Original Title of Darwin’s most famous work will clear a few things up for you:
“On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life.”
Maybe key to your confusion: “Natural Selection”–not chance, not direction. Nature. Ain’t that a bitch?
Stoopid Illiterate Hoomans.
#54, your ignorance of evolutions is impressive, as is your use of logical fallacies.
You still haven’t provided proof of your imaginary friend.
#20
Perhaps, but if you really want to put your religiosity to the test, start telling your family and friends that god talks to you, and pretend they don’t look at you as those you are completely nuts….as Mark twain said, “faith is believing in something you know ain’t true”
Well, since nobody was interested I’ll have to rely on my own source.
About 40 trainees in Israel’s prison guard service were killed in the fire. Alfred defends the Rabbi’s statement “the deadliest forest fire in the country’s history was divine retribution for the failure of many Israelis to observe the Sabbath”
Since no one else has investigated the horrific deaths of the bus load of people in Israel’s fire, through a very reliable and trustworthy source, I have learned that at least 34 of the 40 young people murdered by God were in fact regular church goers. Family members and friends have generally described the victims as devout Christians who faithfully kept the Sabbath holy.
Oops.
#57 “Maybe key to your confusion: “Natural Selection”–not chance, not direction. Nature. Ain’t that a bitch?”
An example of the influence of the “natural” industrial revolution.
“the peppered moth exists in both light and dark colors in the United Kingdom, but during the industrial revolution many of the trees on which the moths rested became blackened by soot, giving the dark-colored moths an advantage in hiding from predators. This gave dark-colored moths a better chance of surviving to produce dark-colored offspring, and in just a few generations the majority of the moths were dark.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_selection
Re#37, Ah_Yea… normally that type of news (thanks for the link) should be as alarming as WikiLeaks… WikiClimate?… but unfortunately the sheeple have eaten too much of the free but fermented oats. I’ve heard at least radio stations announce that 2010 was the hottest year on record and that 2011 would be even hotter. Maybe they mean “hot” as in looking gooood!
#61, Mexti… but have you ever seen moth eyes? They couldn’t have happened by chance. So tiny and intricate…. they even have a natural nanostructured film which eliminates reflections. They could only have been designed by God. Moth wings on the other hand, are mismatched and unwieldy. God couldn’t have designed those. From what I’ve surmised, God designed about 13% of the average moth. The poorly engineered brain for instance, which causes the moth to fly into light bulbs over and over and over, was probably evolved. I would expect that if they find moth fossils from 2 million years ago they would consist of nothing but a very simple rather featureless and brainless crawling blob with absolutely beautiful antireflective eyes.
#63 Alfred, it is you that is guilty of gross misrepresentation. The Bible passage clearly shows that this wasn’t any sort of traditional war, but instead your God supposedly told Moses to attack the Midianites in an act of vengeance for their sins. The attack was an incursion into the homeland of the Midianites, and the Israelites had no legitimate business being there in the first place. That’s not a war, that’s a surprise attack.
Secondly, the more you try to defend the act of killing children, the more sociopathic you reveal yourself to be, and some of the worst dangers of your religion come into full view. Any amount of killing of men, women, or even innocent children is defensible when telepathically authorized by the Creator, because that is the Creator’s prerogative? I guess we’re just lucky that the Divine authority to kill has never been abused, or a telepathic message faked. Otherwise, Earth might be a pretty dangerous place.
In lieu of bulletproof glass, I’m glad there’s a significant amount of physical distance and anonymity between you and me 😉
#66 Alfred, you and Moses can call it anything you want — call it “pudding” if you like. This was a surprise attack. Yes, they were armed for war — using weapons of warfare is how people kill their targets in a surprise attack. No magical 3-letter word legitimizes this act of outright aggression. However, when you look at their list of valuable plunder, they got some really cool stuff out of the deal. Maybe that was the whole point of the raid in the first place???
But the evil didn’t end there. The Israelites took women and children as captives, and then later killed them in premeditated fashion as Moses commanded them to do, saving only the virgin females (and that wonderful plunder) to be divided among the various tribes of Israel.
Of course, the Midianite females would have had to be physically restrained during their examinations as they kicked and screamed with the realization that any evidence of male penetration was tantamount to a death sentence. Can you imagine the humiliation and sheer terror these women felt at having the Israelites forcibly examine them to determine if they were virgins?
The Bible tells us that the number of virgins allowed to live was 32,000. That can be the basis for estimating how many women and children might have been slaughtered in this incident, including every one of the boys.
Not exactly your typical Sunday School story, unless Freddy Krueger happens to be your Sunday School teacher 😉
#61–Nextlie==what are you trying to say? Best I can make out is that Darwin was “wrong” in some way because the moth’s adapted to man made conditions?
Is that it Bunky? I will assume so as that makes you look as dumb as a lopsided rock. You do understand that lopsided rocks are the dumbest kind of rock there are don’t you?
Actually, come back if I missed your point because other than being extremely idiotic, all you’ve done is give the classic example of survival of the fittest to a changed environment. Amusing how you turn things on their head==like a lopsided rock would do if a lopsided rock could do anything at all.
Know what I mean?
Hee, hee. One step up from Alfie, and still abysmally ignorant.
#41
It is rare to find Jews, Christians or Muslims following the God of Abrahams’commands.
All of them are commanded to love God and most do not.
All of them are also to love their neighbour and most do not.
So why not drop the pretenses and move along?
Why? Tradition. It is the adherence to tradition for tradition’s sake that makes religion fail.
#47
“I love welfare”
So does The God of Abraham. Who even sends the rain down on the unjust.
Why do you not feel the same? Your KING is for it. Why are you against him?
#56
“People will continue to get worked up over this God that doesn’t exist as long as there are people who use the idea of God to justify their own acts of evil and terror. ”
If it wasn’t this God it would be another.
Or a national pride and identity to believe in.
Or an ideology.
Or a smug “racial” superiority.
Etc.
Humans was destroy all manner of things and people and then want to lessen their involvement by saying it was something else.
Humans will not change that until they learn that dealing in death is non-profitable in the end. Until they learn that a living person is more valuable than a dead one, they will make scapegoats of all shapes and sizes to justify their ignorance.
#63
“BUT God does exist”
You cannot prove that. Just as atheists cannot prove otherwise.
It is a moot point.
War is murder. There are NO justified wars. Never have been, never will be. As they are all motivated by greed. Greed for wealth and/or power.
“When God ordains a murderer be executed by the His agents, its not murder, its justice. ”
Then why did God avert the just death of people through Salvation? They sinned, they should have died. You should have died.
Again I remind you of the Parable of A Certain King. Do not choose the path that leads to the Tormentors. Because that is what you ascribe to when you still hold to death as justice, Your KING abandoned that practise. Why are you in rebellion to your Sovereign?
“None of it is yours, it all belongs to God, and that means He can do with it (and you) as He wills.”
God cannot do as he wills. Or else he ceases being God.
God can no longer deal out death as punishment. You choose that.
God cannot deny people to The Kingdom, YOU choose that.
God cannot lie, steal, cheat or be unfaithful.
You don’t know your King well at all.
Cursor_
It is frustrating for me to see schmuck get so much attention.
Religion that is founded on the “we/they” approach has lost it’s core value as most all religions have today. When a religion is has nothing more than a book or a group of beliefs, it is an empty shell.
The Rabi is a power broker and nothing more. The heart of Judaism as many other religions is far more subtle than what the Rabi has said. Those who follow him because he looks religious might as well listen to U.S. TV evangelicals and their messages of hate and divisiveness.
#69 Alfred, there’s that sociopathy again, with a healthy bit of moral relativism thrown in, all of which blinds you to the simple premise that decent folk everywhere universally accept — killing innocent people is simply wrong. And what’s more, we know it instinctively, even without consulting the Great Spirit to see if any particular instance of murder is authorized, and then accepting the pronouncement of a “prophet” as if it comes directly from the Creator of the Universe.
My goal is to marginalize people like you who believe fervently that a god who communicates telepathically can authorize murder, and the people who commit those acts are to be admired and revered as his greatest servants, rather than tried and convicted for their deeds.
This dude has one foot in the grave and this is all life is to him? A forest fire as divine payback? Poor guy.
Fake pseudo intellectual scholasticism. Thomas is rolling over in his grave.
“This new learning amazes me, Sir Bedevere. Explain again how sheep’s bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes.”