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Hero: some poor sap put somewhere he doesn’t want to be doing something he doesn’t want to do by people who aren’t in danger and could care less what happens.
Were the 911 fire fighters who rushed into the buildings going up while others were going down heroes or saps?
I saw the Fire chief, or some other official, interviewed in the aftermath: “If we had known the building was going to collapse, we never would have sent our guys in there.”
Yea, verily.
Hero’s or saps?
====and from previous incidents I never believed “the air is safe to breath” was accurate either. And now, the truly volunteer brave first responders who gave up their lungs on a public lie of safety fight to get comfort care as they slowly suffocate.
Our leaders treat us well, from Public Health Officials to cops.
First of all: these guys are amazing heroes.
Second: THEY ARE NOT AUTHORITATIVE.
They are using the word “explosion” to describe their personal experience. They aren’t trying to suggest that the building was wired with explosives for demolition. If that was the case, they’d say, “What the hell!?!?! We saw C4 and wires in there! That place was rigged!”
Greg Allan: what is a hero in your opinion?
What is an amazing hero?
Yes, just another example.
You know, the other good video on firefighting hero’s is the one of those guys letting the house burn down because he hadn’t paid his “out of area” 75 dollar fee.
Same guys: hourly wage fellows doing what they are paid and told to do.
Why do so many need and worship hero’s whenever presented to us by “the media.” Its an invitation to distraction. Very sheepish.
Hero:
A scared as hell person that knows going into shit will be bad. Does it anyway because there are people already in the shit.
The human mind immediately recognises profit and there is profit in saving as many lives as possible.
Cursor_
#2. “They aren’t trying to suggest that the building was wired with explosives for demolition. If that was the case, they’d say, “What the hell!?!?! We saw C4 and wires in there! That place was rigged!”
So the kid who says “People don’t understand, any one of these other building can go up, this aint over yet….”
….was he talking about more planes hitting buildings? I don’t think so. It doesn’t matter anyway, peoples minds are already made up.
bobbo,
What makes these guys heroes to me is that they went into those buildings despite tremendous personal risk. If I had been in one of those building and these guys helped me to an exit, I’d be eternally grateful to them.
I happy to give another example: I was a passing acquaintance of one of the doctors murdered by the Taliban last August. He is a hero to me. While he could have had a rich and cushy life in America as an eye doctor, he spend his life treating eye injuries in Afghanistan during the civil war. There are literally THOUSANDS of people who see now because of him. Maybe tens of thousands. I had lunches with him several times and he was just a regular nice guy — not a TV-type tough guy at all. Yet he did amazing things under tremendously difficult and dangerous circumstances with little personal reward in order to heal the eyes of thousands of Afghanis – when no other doctor would or could do it. And then he got murdered for it. He’s a hero to me.
I suppose you have some cynical take on heroism but I know it when I see it.
Greg Allan==you suppose? Hah, hah. You might be my hero.
Greg Allan==#8 was too fast. Yes, I agree on the doc. Selfless. I also respect the “job” firefighters and even cops do. I just don’t up it one step to adoration for someone doing exactly what they are paid to do and told to do.
There certainly are heros among us. They deserve respect, not adoration. Cynical, or a fine line?
Post traumatic stress effects our recollection of events. Which is why victims are unreliable witnesses.
McCullough,
Oh my word! You honestly can’t believe that these guys are suggesting the buildings are wired to explode!
These guys are shocked and stunned and right in the middle of the most disorienting and frightening experience in their lives. I’d like to meet an talk with these guys now and ask if they really think the buildings where wired for demolition.
But you aren’t disoriented anymore, so can you explain a couple points for me?
If the buildings where wired for demolition, where are all the wires, batteries, timers, wrappers and stuff? Whenever a bomb goes off, it leaves a lots of debris. Heck, investigators even find fingerprints sometimes! So, you honestly believe NOT ONE SINGLE clean up volunteer at the site found or kept anything? Explain how this is possible! The place was crawling for weeks with spontaneous volunteers who couldn’t possibly be in on the conspiracy yet NOT ONE found any bomb debris? Explain that please.
Also, how can you explain that nobody noticed them wiring the buildings for detonation? Not one security guard noticed a bunch of trucks pulling up with bombs and wires and detonators and stuff? Not one night janitor notices a bunch of guys wiring the building for demolition? Not one secretary noticed a bomb strapped to a pillar next to the copy machine?
Explain that please!
And don’t counter me with a bunch of questions instead. The burden of proof is on you.
It’s not us who believe in the obvious.
bobbo,
Fine line.
The New Orleans flood was an interesting case study in “paid vs. hero”
As I understand it — a shameful amount of firemen, policemen, rescue personnel, etc fled the city and abandoned their duties. These are the “paid.”
The ones who stayed I call “heroes” even though they received some crappy salary for it.
I like to think I’m the kind of guy who would stay and do my job but until faced with that circumstance, who can really say for sure?
Good catch Greg Allan: McCullough are you a 911 nut? Hah, hah.
What do you think the odds are in a building fire of secondary and more explosions?
How close to 100% do you think that number is?
You should be ashamed when its Greg Allan that has to tether you to reality.
Hah, Hah. Conspiracy nuts==follow Ocams Razor. It works until hard evidence is established. Saves time too.
@Greg Allen
“First of all: these guys are amazing heroes.
Second: THEY ARE NOT AUTHORITATIVE.
They are using the word “explosion” to describe their personal experience. They aren’t trying to suggest that the building was wired with explosives for demolition. If that was the case, they’d say, “What the hell!?!?! We saw C4 and wires in there! That place was rigged!””
They use the word explosion because they understand what it means while the general public does not.
In this vid at 6:10 the Firefighters review the general definition of explosion while tearing up NIST report on why they didn’t test for explosives.
#12–Greg==and thats why you are my hero. Within the limitations of your warping upbringing, you are as honest as anyone I see posting here.
There is hope for you, redemption even.
This whole discussion sounds just like the discussion in Monty Python’s Holy Grail about whether the woman is a witch or not.
Applying general truisms from every direction in the face of obvious reality, then arguments based on the truisms, is what you might expect from the chimps at the zoo.
“Eyewitnesses are unreliable.” Therefore: No eyewitnesses are reliable. Therefore: These guys are wrong in everything they say.
“Eyewitnesses aren’t authoritative.” As if nothing is true unless it is authoritative, i.e. authoritatively issued, an official truth.
What ought to be obvious is that it isn’t whether what these guys say in every particular is true or not. What they say is vague to begin with, so you can’t verify each detail individually. It’s whether you can reverse-engineer what they say along with what all the other people said who said similar things — and find an event as simple and straightforward as the official story says.
It’s like the grassy knoll. Shots are fired, and a few dozen people get up and start heading up the grassy knoll because that’s *where they heard shots from*. Of course, later that turned out not to be “authoritative”. Yet, you have to wonder whether they would have gotten up off their rear ends had there been no noise there at all.
Similarly with “mass hallucinations”. Has anybody ever actually seen a real mass hallucination? Do they really exist? Do all sorts of people spontaneously and at the same time mass hallucinate a building that isn’t there? A giant turtle? There is no such thing as a mass hallucination — any more than there can be a mass seizure, a mass aneurysm. Yet it’s used all the time as an excuse for UFO sightings.
People to this day reason out of superstition, out of fear. I couldn’t care less whether there was a conspiracy on 9/11 or not. But you don’t punch a hole in a wall halfway up a building and have the whole building uniformly collapse into dust. You don’t ram a jumbo jet through a sixteen foot hole. Anything short of this is just Middle Ages-reasoning.
“…It was as if they had planted detonators in the building…”
Here is a link (mpg file) if you are interested.
P.S. Hero; a person, typically a man, who is admired or idealized for courage, outstanding achievements, or noble qualities.
#16–Hindrich==great setup. Greater punchline. Best straw man argument I have read all month.
#17–LDA==restating the nonexistent discussion in terms of admiration vs idealization. Well done.
LDA==what do you think it sounds and looks like when a buidling collapses floor by floor from the weight of debris above it?
I recall a few years ago when part of Yosemite’s Half Dome sheared off and went near supersonic as it compressed the air beneath it and hit the ground creating gail force winds: “It was like a bomb went off.”
And surely that is what it is like, but thats not what it is.
Follow Hindrich’s advice, but not his conclusion.
Ha, ha. Looking for ghosts: Silly Hoomans.
#16: “But you don’t punch a hole in a wall halfway up a building and have the whole building uniformly collapse into dust.”
In every case I know of in which a jetliner has been slammed into a skyscraper, the skyscraper has collapsed… into dust.
A simple proof of the fact it was not a conspiracy by the US to blow up the buildings. Talk to anyone who has ever worked in the government. It is simply impossible to organize something like this using any federal employee. One it would never get done. Two the bombs would have been wired incorrectly and not have gone off. Three there would have been a humongous hole in the federal budget that could not be explained by toilet seats and hammers. Fourth and final no one could have kept it secret. The probability of a secret remaining a secret is inversely proportional to the number of people that know the secret. Especially any member of congress.
@firsttimecaller #20
July 28, 1945, a B-25 Mitchell bomber bashed into the Empire State Building. The building reacted engineers would expect. It burned those floors down to the steel skeleton and the building did not collapse.
I invite any 9/11 truther to allow me to put a 168gr Federal Match Boattail Hollow Point round into their cranium with my Steyr SSG PII at 200 yards and then see if anyone will NOT tell me that they saw a head explode. (And I guarantee that only kinetic energy will be used. No controlled demolition here!)
Haven’t the thinking people of the world had enough of this “demolition” bullshit? I certainly have.
Breetai==from memory the B-25 is not a jetliner. The jetliner probably carried as much aviation fuel as the entire weight of the b-25. I took firsttimer’s comment as a subtle/sarcastic call for actual experience to rule over unqualified conjecture based on ignorance?
The special showing how the WTC collapsed did comment on how its construction was very different from the Empire State Building.
Different airplanes, different flammables, different buildings, all unrelated to the comment made.
Well done. You get one star on your nutbag conspiracy merit badge.
# 18 bobbo, always eager to be shown the better way
No, answering your pointless question i.e. hero to others saps to you (both equally valid opinions).
“what do you think it sounds and looks like when a buidling collapses floor by floor from the weight of debris”
Like a building collapsing ‘floor by floor from the weight of debris’ (with resistance), I assume, I’m not sure I’ve ever seen it happen.
What do you think a building collapsing from well placed ‘detonators’ ‘popping out floor by floor’ would look and sound like?
I put a link to the video because ‘Greg Allen’ said “They aren’t trying to suggest that the building was wired with explosives for demolition.”. I was showing an example of people clearly saying that is what they thought. I was not saying they are correct, I’m not sure what really happened.
LDA–you know I hate disagreeing – but – what they said was: “it sounded like.” No statement clear or otherwise as to what they thought the cause of it was.
Do you think the Federal Government (Bush again!) set a bomb off on Half Dome?
Amusing: pointless question and then you agree with the point I made. You have a very short attention span, and perhaps a reading deficit?
Greg Allen,
There is more than a lot of evidence that the official story is not true.
To answer one of your question about C4 and wires, the explosive used was Thermite not C4. That point is well documented. There are university studies showing it was high tech Nano thermite with a scales like structure that was also associated with red and blue particles.
– So, the explosive (Nano Thermite) was applied to the elevator shafts as paint (sort of a two part epoxy) in red and blue. The people painting it on didn’t even know they were involved. The triggers were wireless. And yes, the entire building had wires for phones, computers, and electrical (dough).
– Nothing of size was left over in debris with the exception of undamaged passports of a few hijackers. There were not even bodies to identify.
– So, let end this with a personal attack: Go back to your work with Cass Sunstein you shill.
Rex Out…..
@LDA #25
“I was not saying they are correct, I’m not sure what really happened.”
The worst part is that we really never can know what really happened through investigation. Because the building steel, some of the most crucial evidence, go shipped off to be melted down for the USS New York without testing it for explosives and before the investigation was complete. That’s a big investigation 101 no no destroying evidence before the investigation is complete.
As far as I’m concerned if your not questioning the governments actions about this on some level the only logical conclusion is that your a member of the Nazi party.
More comedy gold from internet comments.
#21 – Your “simple proof” is just the same old pap that everybody who thinks it brings up to make themselves feel clever. Guess what: Government doesn’t equal Congress. Sure, your elected officials are idiots. People who tune in to see their lunatic Congressmen act like bozos and then think they know the whole character of their government, what it’s doing, ought to be ashamed of themselves. Probably 60% of the “government” these days is outside the reach of elected officials. Just because your Congressmen are philanderers with low IQs doesn’t mean you know anything about what the intelligence agencies are up to day-to-day, and have been up to for decades.
#16 – I remember watching Looney Tunes as a kid and seeing Elmer Fudd swing an axe out a tree and take a big chunk out of it. Know what the tree always did? It tipped over. Right where the wedge was missing. According to you, the tree should have turned into a great pile of sawdust, standing vertically for an instant, then collapse into the ground. Worse than that, you want two giant buildings to collapse the exact same way, one not taking any longer than the other, as if they were hit identically. And at *freefall* speed. Not over minutes, or hours, or days. Just poof!
#23 – Wow, buddy. You can give the specific name of a fancy gun with a fancy ammunition with a big, long name. That wins the argument. You’re in your own class.
Gregg Allen #11
The idea isn’t that we have all the answers and can explain how and why everything that happened that day.
All 9/11 truthers are saying is that the buildings collapsing the way they did is highly suspicious and there is evidence that warrants a thorough investigation into alternative theories. Something which the 9/11 commission’s whitewash didn’t do.
You are fool if you blindly trust whatever governments tell you, especially when there is ample evidence to suggest otherwise…history proves that.