Stewart Baker – volokh.com – Sept. 29, 2010:
Al-Qaeda is apparently planning Mumbai-style commando attacks on European, and the US has reportedly launched drone strikes in an effort to break up the plot.
One way to keep these terrorists out of the country is to heighten border scrutiny of Europeans and Americans who’ve traveled to Pakistan and spent months there without visible means of support. To do that, of course, border authorities need to know who’s been traveling in and out of Pakistan. Then they can use that information to flag visitors for additional questioning.
So how is the European Commission helping the US get the information it needs to protect itself from European terrorists trained in Pakistan?
It’s not. In fact, it’s campaigning to make sure we never get it.
The European Commission has announced that it will negotiate deals to prevent countries like Pakistan from providing travel data to the United States — except when the US already suspects a particular traveler or is otherwise investigating a particular case. In other words, the European Commission wants to bar the kind of wholesale data exchange that’s needed to spot at the border terrorists who have successfully disguised themselves as tourists. And it plans to withhold all European travel reservation data from Pakistan unless the Pakistanis agree to join a data boycott of the United States.
Remarkably, Brussels is pursuing this data boycott despite a solemn promise to the United States that it would not take such action.
Since 2003, privacy zealots in the European Union have been fighting – so far unsuccessfully — to keep the US from fully using that data to screen air passengers. Under pressure from the European Parliament, this month the European Commission launched its fourth attack in seven years on US use of such data.
Interestingly, the principles wouldn’t prevent Pakistan from giving the same information to European countries. Quite the contrary. The EU’s new principles for negotiation will require such sharing: “Information about terrorism and serious transnational crime resulting from the analysis of PNR data by third countries should be shared with EUROPOL, EUROJUST and EU Member States.”
And his sources????
Never once mentioned.
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I didn’t go through the whole article, but it looks like the author is using hyper-text for resources instead of mentioning them in the story.
It is the US that is at war with Al-Qaeda – not the other way round.
‘cor, soon them pesky Europeans are going to start demanding self-government too… why can’t every just be good and do what the Americans want them to do ….
#2
Going through the hyperlinks I don’t see anything that states the US is SOL. It states: “Currently the exchange of PNR data with third countries is done under different frameworks.”
So it doesn’t look like they will just leave out other non-EU nations, just it is handled a different way.
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“European Privacy Zealots.” I think we need more American Privacy Zealots .
Nice try. This won’t stop the exchange of PNR’s between countries like the author implies – it sets a standard framework for the sharing of information. Roughly:
Data should only be used to fight terrorism and serious transnational crime.
Data should be limited to that useful in fighting those types of crime, and should be clearly specified by the agreement.
Passengers should not be prevented from boarding by automated checks alone.
Any country receiving and storing PNR data must ensure high standards of data protection.
Periods of retention should be limited.
There should be oversight that the agreement is being followed.
There should be reciprocity between countries.
In other words, don’t use the data for other crap (e.g. tax evasion, old marijuana possession charges, etc) and quit sharing the data in clear text like some agencies have been doing. However, it’s easier to panic and draw your pant stones up into your body and scream that Europeans are trying to kill you.
Or to put it another way, right now United Airlines has stricter guidelines and practices around managing your personal information than does the god damned FBI.
@Someone Else
Precisely – the current rules say that eu airlines have to give any and all the info they have to the US authorities for every passenger.
Credit card number, address, cell phone, all previous flights, type of meal booked, medical problems, etc.
The US authorities refused any limits on how that data was used, or which organisations it was shared with or sold to.
The eu proposal was that the US would inform them of passengers they had an interest in and they would supply just that data.
Wow. The EC is doing a proper job for once! :O
Wish we’d see that more often.
Maybe the alarmists should think about this way: “We would like the Egyptian security authorities to treat private American citizen’s data with same respect and openly verifiable standards that everyone else uses.”
If Al-Queda is planning Mumbai style attacks, why are we letting in immigrants from Mumbai or Pakistan wherever that is…
You’d think that they were in Canada with all our political correctness
Its a great time to think of American’s and their health and welfare
Map of Europe according to Americans.
In the linked to post his comments at the end about unreasonable foreign governments not sharing their law enforcement work product is preposterous.
Examples of information not being shared between offices in the same agency much less than between two separate agencies WITHIN THE U.S. are legion. The idea that we push our secret information out to foreign consumers is laughable.
#12 Your knowledge of geography is stunning. Mumbai, previously known as Bombay, is in India.
Closing off dealings with India is not going to be constructive.
#16
Right, this isn’t normal IT security agreements. This is a grand conspiracy by unknown forces to control your underwear.
The EU, US, and others all do data privacy is various ways. This is one part of ongoing negotiations to bring everyone up to the same standards in the west. Of course, Alfred prefers it the way it is now in the US with secret government and no publicly elected accountability.
I only have a few questions: What’s a privacy zealot? Is that like a breathing zealot? Or a living zealot? Or a religious zealot? Or a science zealot? Which are bad, and which are good? And who decides? And if no one decides, what’s the difference? Should we give that statue in NY harbor back? Does it mean anything now? Has it ever? Who are the bad guys? Who are the good guys? Are you really sure?
I’m sorry, all of those questions are unfair. And none of them can be answered to anyone’s satisfaction. But I think we can do ourselves a true service if we ask ourselves at least some of these, maybe more, before we decide to choose sides and bemoan our fate/fight the “good” fight.
#19 What do you consist of when you protest?
Just saw Richard Scheer on Book TV–repeat today at 9PM EST, he said something interesting: “Al Quaeda is just a name.” He goes on from there a bit explaining how 911 was based out of Saudi Arabia and Egypt (I would add Germany) and our war in Afghanistan is WILDLY out of proportion to the threat/source of the threat presented.
Good show worth the 90 minutes spent. He rips Dems and Pukes, Bush and Clinton.
“Scheer: Great American Stickup” Yes friends the same criminals that brought us the banking collapse failed “upward” and are still in power.
Massive fraud and no one in Jail. Dems blinded by their “credentials” and Pukes blinded by their greed.
The spiral around the sewer continues.
Time to pull our forces our to Europe? It would save a lot of money but we owe Poland.
deowll, pull the plug. WW2 and the cold war are over. It’s not helping anyone having bases there. Spend the money on roads or paying off the debt or closing prisons or something.
#23–deowll==I’m curious. What do we owe Poland and how is that debt to be paid?
#26–Alfred Persson==I’m curious. What is the tea party platform. I have looked over the net and all I can find is that they are “for helping to save democracy and freedom in america==send us your money!”
With it all over the net, how about a link?
In advance, thank you.
If Bush has stopped a terrorist attack on Europe, he’d be strutting around on the Eiffel Tower in his codpiece.
It’s great to have a president who gets the job done without all crowing.
Alfie–two shots and a miss? Two talking heads is your tea party platform?
I suspected your politics would be on firmer ground than your religion.
Silly me.
#24 Bravo, good points.
#30 “It’s great to have a president who gets the job done without all crowing”
Sort of a guy you would like to have a beer with, huh?
Now if he can do ANY job without lying.
#14 Someone Else
“Map of Europe according to Americans.”
If ANYONE thinks of the Mediterranean as a swimming pool they must like to swim in raw sewage.
Nextlie==you looked at the map and focus on the Mediterranean? Ha, ha. Idiots will always fixate on some detail and miss the larger point entirely.
Go back and look again. Report back.
Mainstream media is all corporate propaganda, there are no progressive news on mainstream TV. Privacy is a conservative value and like this blog and most posts in the forums we value the things that make america the country of freedom that it is. Right to privacy is not something one can give up and still have a democratic system. So far we have not seen any progressives in any position of power so it would be hard to say what they would do. The corporate world has taken over long ago and very few representatives of the people are in high level politics. Arguing over Obama or Bush or the Tea Party is like trying to choose between different poisons all supplied by the same few rich to keep the rest of us busy.