Are we/have we devolved into a de facto fascist country where the line between government and big business is hard/impossible to distinguish? Or is it worse than that? Add in law enforcement (local to federal) with diminishing limits on power who are often called upon by corporations to enforce their business needs (eg, MPAA & RIAA) and you have a dangerous mix. At least for us not running the corporations.
Every generation or so, a major secular shift takes place that shakes up the existing paradigm. It happens in industry, finance, literature, sports, manufacturing, technology, entertainment, travel, communication, etc. I would like to discuss the paradigm shift that is occurring in politics.
For a long time, American politics has been defined by a Left/Right dynamic. It was Liberals versus Conservatives on a variety of issues. Pro-Life versus Pro-Choice, Tax Cuts vs. More Spending, Pro-War vs Peaceniks, Environmental Protections vs. Economic Growth, Pro-Union vs. Union-Free, Gay Marriage vs. Family Values, School Choice vs. Public Schools, Regulation vs. Free Markets.
The new dynamic, however, has moved past the old Left Right paradigm. We now live in an era defined by increasing Corporate influence and authority over the individual. These two “interest groups” – I can barely suppress snorting derisively over that phrase – have been on a headlong collision course for decades, which came to a head with the financial collapse and bailouts. Where there is massive concentrations of wealth and influence, there will be abuse of power. The Individual has been supplanted in the political process nearly entirely by corporate money, legislative influence, campaign contributions, even free speech rights.
This may not be a brilliant insight, but it is surely an overlooked one. It is now an Individual vs. Corporate debate – and the Humans are losing.
This ties in with the Supreme Court controversy over should corporations be considered persons and have a right to privacy, etc.
Is America a democracy ?
Two parties – little difference really between the two
I voted Democrat because my father did
I vote republican because my grandfather/ father did
The only problem is the left wing Soros groupies are now in charge
Yep, that’s how the Tea Party started out. With outrage over the corporate bailouts.
I don’t know if the current Tea Party candidates that actually made it through the Republican primaries are pro-us or pro-corporation, but I do know that the Republican establishment isn’t too happy about them.
Of course the corporate controlled media was quick to label them as nutbags. All of my friends to the left would be wise to not fall into the Tea Party is nutjob rhetoric. Corporate media is really good and creating an us versus them mentality.
It is not Individual vs. Corporations. It is Constitutionalists vs. Progressives . USA Constitution defines individual rights. Progressives from Left and Right abhor individual rights and prefer “rights of the many over rights of the few (one)”. Corporations enter the picture only as a convenient tool for Progressives on this path. And those that do not cooperate are on the slaughter list too (ex. BigOil/Obama Administration…).
It’s still corporate giants like the Koch Bros. holdings bankrolling the teabaggers. Uh, you know them better as Georgia-Pacific, couple oil companies, stuff they inherited from daddy.
They flunked trying to get elected as libertarians; so, they’d rather gather up leftover Birchers and grab the Republican Party – from the Right.
I expect the usual semantic midgets will show up sooner or later – but, Uncle Dave has it locked down on the historic definitions of fascism. Read Mussolini, one of the founding fathers sometime.
He even felt it should be called “corporatism”.
“The only difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is that the Democrats allow the poor to be corrupt, too.
-Oscar Levant
If the Supreme Court rules that corporations (as persons) have a right to privacy, does that mean we (actual people) will also have a “right” to privacy.
I thought the courts had previously ruled that while no explicit right to privacy existed, there were some “reasonable” ground to expect privacy. The problem is, because there was no explicit right, it allows the government to wriggle and weasel around and do whatever they want.
Hopefully if the corporations get an explicit “right”, then the rest of us can enjoy that right too. Including the right to tell corporations (like Google, Facebook, Goldman Sachs, etc) that our private information belongs to us.
The corporations have bought off both parties long ago, and seem to have the tea party bought off too.
If its us vs the corporations, then we lose. Regular persons have no chance of coming up with the money corporate “persons” can.
Without some form of corporate finance reform, democracy is dead. All hail corporacracy.
The intellegencie no longer believe in the Constitution. They no longer support the bill of rights. They have absolutely no respect for the lower classes they claim to serve.
They want a one world state with the elite running the government and redistributing the wealth as they see fit to those on the dole with out the underclass being left with any real hope of ever getting out of the underclass after all they are inferior and that is why they need the intellegnecie to tell them what to do and regulate their lives for them.
It is the intellegencie’s burden and they are proudly working hard to assume their proper mantel of leadership. That some of their inferiors see things differently is simply a problem to be overcome.
It’s just survival of the fittest, ain’t that a Bitch.
dusanmal, you are ill-informed. Look at the voting history of the supreme court justices. The Republicans are always in favor of the corporations. Even in the recent supreme court ruling from July 21, 2010, which blocked the ban on corporations’ political spending on individual elections, the liberal justices all voted to sustain the ban.
Seriously stop talking out of your ass and get the facts straight. You can look up all the voting history on the internet.
Anyway, corporations have their hands in all of the politicians pockets. Look at the campaign contributions of any politician you vote for, there are only a handful that don’t get a check from a corporation.
back to the blog topic…
The conservative majority of the supreme court recently ruled to allow UNLIMITED money from corporations to Congress election campaigns. The GOP was delighted.
’nuff needs to be said about this topic.
It’s us vs corporations and government labor unions.
“This may not be a brilliant insight…”
No shit Sherlock.
This has been going on for hundreds of years; us against them, no matter who them is. It’s nothing new, and since corporations are on both sides of the debate, there is little new there. On any one issue they are just trying to do what is best for their stockholders and employees.
The fatal flaw of democratic systems, of course, is that people figure out they can vote themselves things. The real dangerous people are the ones that know how things “should” be. They think they are smart enough to run the world. Trouble is, the mere fact of wanting that role is a sign of a lack of wisdom. As long as we can vote we have a way to bring the system back into check. You don’t just have opinions do you; You Do Vote!
I have been saying this quite a while.
In the current political environment, it looks like the Tea Party movement and dissatisfaction will change the party in power in Congress.
But it won’t change Washington culture or how corporations now fund the election system.
I think the results will be underwhelming.
The fleecing of America will continue no matter who wins the elections — I think. I hold out some small hope that a new breed of Republicans might steer the boat right.
The Bush administration sent us WAY down the wrong road. Obama continued this trend. With both parties catering to big corporations who want to export our jobs and fleece the country in public debt, there is great reason to be pessimistic about the short-term future.
John, based on some of the comments above I think your going to have to explain who is us and who the corporations are.
My father always voted republican because he said it was good for his business. He must be rolling over in his grave at the completely and totally, morally bankrupt republican party and it representatives who are really now the fascist party.
And those that say that it doesn’t matter who is running the country are just plain ignorant.
SCENARIO:
Lets see.
Feed the baby, a small amount, to soothe them..
Slowly increase the amounts over time.
Soon, you are feeding the baby what it needs.
The baby wants more..you feed it more..
It gets FAT..
Each time you put it on a diet, it gets PISSED.
For those that dont understand this..
Small amounts were given to the parties.
Over time, MORE and more was given.
THEN.
To get those SAME amounts, CONTROL was given to the corp.
THOSE being paid, wanted MORE, and DID more to get the money.
===============================
For those FEW old timers..
Who remembers that County/state/fed had to use a BIDDING SYSTEM to get jobs done?
Then it was ALWAYS, the same groups with the best price.
The GOV. figured they ALWAYS got the same group, so WHY bid it.
ALSO, those groups that had invested in the machinery, WERENT getting contracts, and left the business. So fewer Groups BID or lost interest.
The GOV. just HANDS the business to those groups.
Costs went up(not always wages)..Every and each year, a NEW contract, and NO MORE then 1 bidder with HIGHER prices..
STOP the games, and start sending BIDS OUT…SHOW them what WE ARE PAYING and the prices will drop. FAST.
Using the word “control” to describe the influence of corporations is really an obfuscation. Its greed and corruption of our elected representatives that is destroying our country, not control in the certain sense I am highlighting.
VOTE ALL INCUMBENTS OUT OF OFFICE. For this strategem, even a nutbagging teabagger is a better person in office that a rational, intelligent, educated politician looking to line his own nest. Course, most of the teabaggers are too, they are just too crazy to pull it off as effectively.
Engle, Palin, and O’Donnel for 2012–or is our problem really just the Sup Ct?
Corps are People.
People have a right to spend money for political messaging/action.
Money is speech.
Therefore: Corporations can spend as much money as the want to buying politicians by the bucket loads and write it off as a business expense. Everybody (that counts) wins.
One of the defining issues that requires only a little bit of intelligence to think thru: RepubliTARDS are corrupt making laws to favor the SUPER RICH. Only the SUPER RICH and the idiotic fantacists voting against their own self interests vote Republican.
Democraps are also corrupt but they from time to time when calling on the angels of their better natures and not running from a political fight, make laws to favor the working man. To few understand this in the dust up over god, guns, and gays.
Silly Hoomans.
Look around for it, read or listen to the Governator’s speech before the Commonwealth Club on Monday night. About some of our corporations and fascism.
He makes the point near the end that oil companies saying they’re concerned about jobs for workingclass Americans is like Eva Braun writing a kosher cookbook.
LOL
Overlooked? Not by me or many acquaintances. But few if anyone else listens.
And even here I’ve been saying we’ve had fascism for quite some time. Look up the definition of fascism if you don’t know what it is.
The problem is that we treat corporations like artificial people when they should only be financial entities with no rights beyond those of their personnel as citizens and human beings. Corporations will of course win any human competition because they are immortal and invulnerable to pain. They can be killed, but like any undead monster, they usually are only cut up into pieces small enough (we hope, and in the case of AT&T it didn’t) to be harmless.
“Forget Dem vs Rep, Left vs Right, Liberal vs Conservative — It’s Us vs Corporations”
No it’s govt vs we the people/corporations
We are the corporations, by employment and investment. They, the govt, have duped you in to hating yourselves while THEY steal our liberty. Create a fake boogeyman that “you need protection from” and then govt becomes your savior for whom you’ll pledge your undying devotion. Already happening based on most of these posts
The big corporations, they’re sooo …corporate.
One reason for the blame is the estate tax. Corporations don’t die so they don’t pay it.
Other people ave to sell their property to pay the tax, and it is the corporations that do the buying, making them even bigger at a discount.
In your definition of fascism, you forgot the role of big labor.
The continuing cry for “less government” is the siren song of the big money folks. Less government means free reign for those with power – and they are NOT interested in you or me.
From F.D.R.;
“The only sure bulwark of continuing liberty is a government strong enough to protect the interests of the people, and a people strong enough and well enough informed to maintain its sovereign control over the goverment.”
The tea party will do none of that, the repubs less, and the dems abstain.
The government – OUR government – must be stronger than the biggest corporation, or it is effectively powerless.
So long as foolish and outspoken gulls continue to push for “less government” as a panacea, we’re sunk.
“You Know- – -” when real people get convicted of breaking laws they become felons and not able to vote. Same should happen to corporations: violate the law, get convicted, and no longer able to spend money on politicians.
Won’t happen, just saying.
Considering the average poster on this site must have some concept of computers and software and how they actually work, I find it just INCREDIBLE that you brain donors actually believe we can vote our way out of this shit. Anyone ever even heard of VOTESCAM???? Voting results are the easiest thing in the world to control. What planet do you people live on? Nothing short of a full scale revolution,yes, the R word, with blood flowing in the streets, is going to change the road we are going blindly down. Well, perhaps, WWIII might help.
Forget us vs corporations. This is fundamentally populist vs fascist.
As a small business owner, how do I fit into this? “us” or “them”? I only have two employees, but regularly hire subs to do work I myself can not. I have an tax ID number and my “corporation” such as it is, will live on beyond my lifetime, expressly to avoid inheritance tax (which is one of several ways the government robs those who contribute to total wealth by creating, or earning a legacy) Someday it may actually be worth enough to pay taxes on…
Anyone who has ever run any business bigger than a lemonade stand or taken a freshman accounting class knows the government can’t really tax a business. Taxes are considered an expense, and are passed on to the consumer in the form higher prices of whatever goods or services the business sells to generate revenue. Margins have to be maintained to generate enough profit to justify staying in business. Without the ability to turn a reasonable profit, businesses stop generating cash flow, stop spending for inventory or equipment, stop making payroll, and eventually close. Economics and accounting really should be required as part of a high school education.
The government actually is getting whatever taxes it levees on a business from the its customers. Some specialized businesses cater to the wealthy, but the vast majority generate their revenue (if you follow it all the way down the BtoB stream) from working and middle class folks. (Hello, Walmart!) Taxing business income is like starting a state run lottery. It is just another tax on people who don’t understand math.
So, I say again, am I an “us” or a “them”? Who are the “rich”? If you have shoes and keys to your dwelling you are rich relative to most of the third world. I drive a 25 year old car worth less than a lot of house payments, but I consider myself rich by the metrics that matter.
I will agree with anyone who wants to take a hard look and change the way money flows into politician’s hands. I have no issue with some sort of ban or probationary period on corporations that are found guilty of wrong doing, locking them out of the “free speech” of election financing.
What I really want to see, however, is a government that is held to *at least* the same fiscal standards of profit/loss that I am, required to pay its bills with money it has, not money it prints. If I kept my books and ran my business like the government does, I’d have been sleeping in a box or on a stainless steel shelf years ago. For that matter, I’d like to see the banking and insurance industry under the same scrutiny.
For those of you who hate corporate monstrosities so much: would you hate them more, or perhaps less, if your government had not tried to bail them out?
#34–Party, and focused attention on the key point wanting to be made, is irrelevant===
If your question really is as you conclude: “For those of you who hate corporate monstrosities so much: ((who isn’t?==REALLY!!)) would you hate them more, or perhaps less, if your government had not tried to bail them out? /// My hate was completed and perfect 15 years ago as these corporations bought enough politicians to have the regulations controlling their greed lifted from their backs.
Our system is too chaotic for anyone to know what the right thing to do was/is/will be when international/intertwined corps fail leading to a “collapse” of economies. Bail them out??? I have to guess yes. Without anyone going to jail?—No. Without putting the rules back in place?—No.
You do a flow chart and mostly the issues conclude with everyone acting pretty much the way they always do/will/some would say should, EXCEPT FOR our government which fails us all by being totally corrupted–usually by people who sound too much like yourself uttering meaningless pablum as analysis.
But, In view of the Teabaggers, I’m stressed to change my position: VOTE ALL INCUMBENTS OUT OF OFFICE BY CHOOSING THE LEAST QUALIFIED DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE.
Hah, hah. Silly self destructive RepubliTARDS.