Oh yeah, this should go a long way to repair our image in the world.
After working for a year to redeem the international reputation of military commissions, Obama administration officials are alarmed by the first case to go to trial under revamped rules: the prosecution of a former child soldier whom an American interrogator implicitly threatened with gang rape.
The defendant, Omar Khadr, was 15 when he was captured in Afghanistan and accused of throwing a grenade that killed an American soldier. Senior officials say his trial is undermining their broader effort to showcase reforms that they say have made military commissions fair and just.
“Optically, this has been a terrible case to begin the commissions with,” said Matthew Waxman, who was the Pentagon’s top detainee affairs official during the Bush administration. “There is a great deal of international skepticism and hostility toward military commissions, and this is a very tough case with which to push back against that skepticism and hostility.”
Senior officials at the White House, the Justice Department and the Pentagon have agreed privately that it would be better to reach a plea bargain in the Khadr case so that a less problematic one would be the inaugural trial, according to interviews with more than a dozen current and former officials. But the administration has not pushed to do so because officials fear, for legal and political reasons, that it would be seen as improper interference.
[…]
Chief [negative image] among them are persistent questions about the propriety of prosecuting a child soldier. Moreover, in a blow to establishing an image of openness, the Pentagon sought to ban journalists who wrote about publicly known information that it decreed should be treated as secret. […] And prosecutors disqualified an officer from the jury because he said he agreed with President Obama that Guantánamo had compromised America’s values and international reputation.
I’ve never heard such a load of BS. “The optics aren’t right….” Ha, Ha. Yes, in war you shoot kiddies with handgrenades so what exactly is the “optics” to keep the kiddie in jail until the war on terror (c) is won?
New York Times: confusing Charles Dickens with War on Terror. If we aren’t happy/proud of what we are doing, then we shouldn’t be doing it. Concerned about “how it looks” if for those who don’t value their liberty.
I guess that does mean us?
Warrantless wiretaps and searches, arrests and detentions without charges, trails using confession by torture. From an outsiders perspective Bin Laden has won. He has completely destroyed the american way of life. Whoever said that it wouldn’t end with a roar but with a whimper really nailed it on the head. Enjoy your decline and maybe brush up on your chinese, you’ll need it soon.
A bit harsh but this has prevented another muslim attack and have we been attacked by Martians? No.
-Dick & Bush
I am so sick of that shit Pedro….
IT IS NOT A MOSQUE!!!! It is a community centre. All the anti-muslim racist rhetoric about this does not change that FACT. I find it hilarious that the right-wing champions of free market and private property are trying to infringe in this groups attempt to use their own private property, even if it was a mosque (which it is not).
Besides, saying something is close to ground zero is also a load of horseshit. Anything in the southern half of Manhattan is close to ground zero. It is geographically unavoidable
Are you gonna storm all the shinto shrines built near Pearl Harbor next?
This picture of Khadr was supplied to a willing press by his mother, and was taken from a school yearbook. He looks about 12. He was 15 when he killed the American medic, and there are pictures of him practicing making explosive devices, taken when he was 15, that make him look a good deal less innocent and angelic. You might look for one of these….
1 – He admitted to it under torture, and has denied it every other time
2 – Despite reports to the contrary, many soldiers present at the time observed additional insurgents in the base at the time it is claimed only Khadr could be the culprit
3 – If he was a minor, he is protected under International agreement to protect child soldiers – How is being pressed into service by a fanatical religious family any different than a repressive government or warlord?
I am getting really tired of Americans thinking it is OK to prosecute people for crimes committed in other countries. How many Americans would be OK with another country arresting it citizens for actions committed in a third country?
Maybe he should be released and sent to Uncle Dave’s favorite High School in Western Australia to get a better education in terrorism.
Nik: the “community center” contains a mosque, I believe…
No the Community Centre contains a prayer room, just like many local YMCAs….Do you consider the YMCA a Christian Church?
Good answer Nik, but you know as well as anyone here that it’s a bad analogy. The Muslims themselves refer to it as a mosque:
“Eead Ramadan, President of the Council of Islamic New Yorkers. He said the Islamic cultural center is for plural uses and it is not only a mosque…”
It is sad all those American ideals of tolerance and freedom are slowly disappearing. Bin Laden is winning this fight, and you are happily helping under the guise of “National Security”. Can’t you see that you are fulfilling everyone of his stated goals?
Whatever. Screw the semantics of the mosque/community centre arguements. I could care less if it was a mosque. Overall, this is an indictative of the over-polarization of politics today.
Once again…why aren’t all the WWII vets furious over the shinto shrines built near Pearl Harbor? Japanese atrocities make any Islamic attacks seem pale by comparison.
Ah, so now that you have been proved wrong, it’s “screw the semantics…”
Do you have a valid argument to make Bill? As I stated who cares if it is a mosque? I’m far more scared of Christian fundamentalists than any local muslims.
This whole controversy is the usual distraction to make you look away as the wealthy of the world pick our pockets
Last time I respond to your trolling
# 10 NiktheElectrician said,”No the Community Centre contains a prayer room”
Sorry Nik – They are claiming the “prayer room” will be able to hold up to 1000 worshippers. Quite a room. Also, look up the definition of a mosque. No, here, let me do it for you: “a Muslim temple or place of public worship.” Call it what you will but if it quacks like a duck…
As for the kid, no one threatened to rape him despite the misleading headline. (tch,tch,tch Unc!) He was told a story about prison rape with the full intent of scaring the shit out of him. Seems to have worked. That’s the same scare tactic cops use all over the world. It’s hardly torture.
BTW, I’ve lived in Afghanistan and I can tell you that a 15 year old boy is not considered a child. That’s barely a juvenile in the western world. And he’s still fighting the system at the age of 23.
Hang him.
jebenson2 @ number 8, question for ya…
What on earth does this kid have to do with terrorism? Even if he threw the grenade (which is in doubt), the target was the soldiers of an invading army. Yeah…that army happens to be ours, but that doesn’t mean that it isn’t an invading army.
Tell ya what…
Do you recall the old movie Red Dawn that came out in 1984? (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Dawn for details if you’re unfamiliar.) In that movie, the United States has been invaded by the USSR and a group of American high school students resist the Red Army with every means they can come up with. Think Americans watching that film were calling the heroes of the film “terrorists”? If some foreign army invaded the US today and your neighbor or your brother or your father or your son fought them, would you call them a terrorist?
#5 & #10 NiktheElectrician
Muslim is not a race it is a belief system. Therefore you are not racist for opposing it (or championing it as the case may be). Some may be motivated by racism as well but that is a separate issue.
It is a mosque. A mosque is a Muslim place of worship (if a YMCA is a place of Christian worship then it is a church). If you pray in a car it becomes a place of worship / church / mosque. It is also a community centre, it can be both.
Obviously the main argument is that it is a building (whatever you call it) for Muslims near the void of the former WTC.
Legitimate arguments can get bogged down in semantics and name calling but neither add anything useful to an argument. As long as we both know what we are talking about it doesn’t really matter what you call it.
P.S. I am not opposed to citizens, who are acting within the law, from building whatever they want wherever they want.
I find it ironic that Obama’s “revamped rules” have bit him in the ass so quickly.
It’s also sadly hysterical that the administration of openness is trying to keep this trial under wraps.
And this is the FIRST TRIAL! What about the second, third, forth…
This administration is so screwed up that not one person considered the consequences of their actions.
This administration, from the top down, is so full of children it’s astonishing. My 10 year old could do a better job. At least my 10 year old would have said “If I change the rules, what’s gonna happen?”
Nik. I think they have every legal right to build a mosque there. A moral right? No. I just objected to your weaselly attempt to call it a community center with a prayer room. If that makes me a troll, I guess I’m a troll.
As for being afraid of Christian fundamentalists, I have no time for them, but I haven’t heard of any terrorist attacks on New York they’ve been responsible for of late…
This will restore honor to America, or at least repair it’s hymen.
This is a problem Obama created for himself.
He could have simply ordered the trials to proceed quickly under the old rules. Bush and Cheney didn’t want to hurry any trials because they didn’t want to release bad guys back into the field while the war was still going on.
Obama, in his infinite stupidity, though it would be a good idea to have show trials in the grand public view during wartime.
Now he is trying to hush it up, plea bargain out, and make it go away. Basically, undo the mess he made.
Obama is making Bush look like a genius.
There are so many unknowns in this story, I do not know what evidence there is against this defendant. However, children should be held accountable for murder to whatever degree their age allows. Torturing people invalidates confessions and is a crime. Throwing a grenade at invading troops is sometime imperative and moral. Throwing a grenade at a soldier makes you a combatant. When you loose you will face ‘justice’. Some people will like or dislike you no-matter what you do so you should do what you believe is moral.
So what we are saying is this kid was going to have sex with his high school teacher? Whats she look like under the burka? Cause some of those American teachers are pretty hot, others not so much.
#15 Animby said ” ..Also, look up the definition of a mosque. No, here, let me do it for you: “a Muslim temple or place of public worship.” Call it what you will but if it quacks like a duck…
As for the kid, no one threatened to rape him despite the misleading headline. (tch,tch,tch Unc!) He was told a story about prison rape with the full intent of scaring the shit out of him. Seems to have worked.”
I would have to say telling a story of gang rape in prison to a 15 yr old being held in a prison (especially by the persons who are holding him in prison) is certainly the equivalent of threatening him with gang rape.
Your duck is quacking just as much.
I like the part where they leave out he’s a Canadian Citizen.
Don’t let this terrorist age cloud the issue. He is intent on killing. Deal with him appropriately.
Of course, this fiasco is symptomatic of Obama and his administration, and people are catching on.
A Rasmussen Reports survey this past week showed “voters now trust Republicans more than Democrats on all 10 of the important issues” – including the economy and taxes, national security, war in Iraq and Afghanistan, immigration, government ethics and corruption, health care, Social Security, and education.
An Ipsos poll (also last week) shows 62 percent of those surveyed “think that things in this country are on the wrong track” with more people (52 percent) disapproving of the way Obama is doing his job than indicating approval (45 percent).
A new Newsweek poll shows independent voters – many at the Saturday rally would characterize themselves this way – moving toward the GOP. “Forty-five percent of independents say they’ll vote for Republican candidates, compared with just 33 percent for Democrats,” reports Newsweek.
And this is coming on the heels of GEORGE W BUSH!!
This is my last rant for today.
Bashing the Obama administration is just too easy. There’s no sport in it.
Prime Minster Harper has abandoned this Canadian. Canadian courts have ruled that the Canadian Gov is obligated to support the Kid. Yet, Harper has fought it every step of the way and done nothing to help him.
I’m not sure what the US says he did is true. But anything the US says has to be taken with a bit of skepticism with their track record.
This is a no win situation for the USA and the Kid. I hope the Kid does not cop a plea. So the whole sorted tale comes to light.
This kid (now an adult) is a terrorist, from a family of terrorists, don’t care if he is or was a kid, he was born and bread to be a terrorist and this will not change, it would be a complete disservice to the world community to ever let him go.
The only claims of torture comes from the lawyers. The military judge has ruled that torture did not occur. Perhaps the public image of the US would be better if the media would be more responsible in its reporting.
http://defense.gov/news/D94-D111.pdf
http://defense.gov/news/D94-D111.pdf
So we were told that there are better techniques that America can use in interrogations, and this will solve all the problems. The interrogators used these techniques, and still the same people have complained.