Whenever America faces her toughest challenges, you can always count on the right to be there. Sowing hate, stoking fear. So it’s no surprise that in the midst of a great economic catastrophe, the right would search for scapegoats instead of answers. And so we have the fabricated crisis of the “Mosque at Ground Zero.”
Leave aside the fact that it’s not a mosque and it’s not at Ground Zero. This is really about hate and fear, the right’s old friends.
For the last 45 years, at least, no matter who the Republican candidate has been, hate and fear were really at the top of the ticket.
Recall that in 1968, Richard Nixon won the presidency by stoking fear of Negroes and hippies. The vaunted Southern Strategy of the Republican Party was at its core a campaign of fear. What a ride it’s had.
It’s no longer fashionable to be officially afraid of blacks, but there is no shortage of substitutes. Who is the right afraid of now?
Read the post to find out the new boogiemen are in their list of things to distract us. Like Muslims in a building a few blocks from Ground Zero. Like there aren’t any anywhere else around there now.
>why did they kill the 911 responder’s medical bill?
The bill that got 255 votes? That is a majority, so the only reason it died is because of a leadership that decided to bring it up with a rule that requires more than a majority.
>Not that the left is immune from doing this, but it’s just that the right seems to have become unusually good at it.
Until the Right shows themselves as doing this better than left-wingers like Stalin or Hitler, this is a false statement.
I think people’s sensitivities are unjustified. It is a bunch of office complexes.
That doesn’t change the fact that certain Muslims are placing a victory building at the location of these office complexes that are being built at Ground Zero.
I’m OK with the mosque so long as it has Corinthian leather.
Mike you are spinning so fast it’s tough to tell which way you’re facing.
Why didn’t the 9/11 medical bill get 420 votes then? The super majority was needed to prevent GOP poison pill amendments. Why did the GOP insist on doing that, Mike?
Stalin and Hitler on the left? Quit watching Beck…and Jonas Goldberg is a liar of history.
A victory building? 100% spin, bubba.
Try again, but with less emotion and more facts.
>What is the GOP proposing to do about the economy or unemployment that doesn’t involve the tax cuts to the rich and financial deregulation that got us into this mess?
“The budget should be balanced, the treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome becomes bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance.” Marcus Tullius Cicero, 55 BC
#41 for the win
#82 Alfred Persson said “Hateful right gins up opposition to President Obama’s successful imigrant policy:”
I’m glad you posted this. I never knew he had one. Oh that’s right, doing nothing.
What a Guy!
Very true. In the square is a rectangle but a rectangle isn’t necessarily a square idea…
Not ALL Republicans are in the KKK or neo-Nazi party….but ALL of the KKK and Nazi’s are Republican (or right wing). There are no “pro-gay” KKK members or Nazi’s.
The psychological term is projection.
The left assumes that the right is as whacked as they are.
That’s why we see Acorn organizers enrolling the dead to vote Democrat while complaining about Republicans stealing the election.
The left and right are equally selfish. Politics is about manipulating public opinion through lies and distractions. If you’re still playing the blame game it’s time to grow up, open your eyes and stop stealing from one to give to another. STOP PLAYING THE GAME.
Curious to know why a still from the animated David Tennent Dr Who with his sonic screwdriver is used to illustrate this article
I think the post has it backwards. It is the Left that wants to distract from their political troubles, so they are using hate and fear as a weapon. In this case, fear the hate from the other side, cry racism.
I’ll bite:
#92–Alfie==”I challenge the loons here to produce one Obama speech on a controversial issue where he is promoting his point of view, that doesn’t contain fallacy.” /// His most recent one regarding the mosque at ground zero. His point being that the constitution allows people to build offensive buildings wherever it is legal to do so.
And the fallacy is?
In the meantime the good people here contesting the formula RIGHT = HATE: when you counter with the Dems do it too, or both parties do it, or the Dems do something else, are you expressly admitting the truth of the formula or are you resting on the rest of us to spot that admission?
The more important question though remains as to WHY the pukes use this strategy ((YES while the Dems use it too and also use others))? And the answer as oft stated is to get the gullible to vote against their own self interests, drive the deficit deeper, all the the benefit of the already SUPER RICH.
The standard rant on democracy is that the majority vote themselves a welfare state. Our current/last 20 year trend is therefore very interesting: the majority voting themselves into bankruptcy in favor of the top 2%. How can that ever occur???
Misdirection of some kind. Don’t care how else you characterize it.
I stand amazed. Everywhere I look, and read, I find people railing against the religious right. I wish I could get to the bottom of this and find these folks’ true motivations. It might be fear. You gotta hand it to the religious right- they have focus, discipline, and no doubt about what they believe. I think you lefties are jealous! And afraid, as previously mentioned. But do you think any number of snarky blog posts will deter them? Don’t count on it. Maybe you should pray to God to save you. D’oh!
Rich–you answered your own question. To answer a related question: its important because the focus, discipline, and true believing nutbaggery of the Religious Right has destroyed the Republican Party as an equal partner in Congress. Because of the Religious Right, the Pukes no longer contribute, they only filibuster and road block.
Pray to God/Ride a Pink Unicorn/appeal to rationality all have an equal effect on the Religious Right.
Thanks for demonstrating the issue.
Hey Alphie, Remember you still owe me for the other night. I ate all that corn just for you. It was fresh and you even wanted seconds. Now quit acting like a Republican and pay me. I don’t give no shit on credit.
#100–Alfie==it is longer than I thought with much to “disagree with.” Your fallacy will however be very instructive.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2010/08/obamas-remarks-about-ground-ze.html
The Left and Right (based on their original definitions) are: 1) people who want to fundamentally change society (the Left) versus 2) those who want to conserve or maintain certain aspects of their society (the Right).
There is no less hatred for what society is and has been by the left as there is for the changes that the left imposes on those of us who don’t want their childish and wrong-visioned new social orders.
Hatred is an extension of anger; arising and directed at another who is responsible for the perceived harm or damage they’ve brought. It’s no wonder people come to hate the constant machinations to justify the unjustifiable that the left imposes on us.
Whenever someone responds with apparent hatred, it is respectful to understand what wrongs they think have been the causes; to understand those peoples’ own ideals and hopes and how they may have been destroyed. Instead, the left denies that any ideals or hopes are valid except their own. If there is hatred, it is due to the Left’s astounding self-righteousness and complete disregard for the people in their own society before those of outsiders. The hatred of the left is obvious in their complete and continuous misrepresentation of their opposition as mere caricatures of humans.
The left brings a different kind of hatred. It is the hatred for whole classes of people who refuse to accept their social redefinition for someone else’s benefit. It is their authoritarian use of the state to impose social mores and conditions that could not have been passed through popular vote.
The left invents rights (state privileges) for the causes that they accept yet denies them when they have been well-established social mores or, in fact, the basis of their society. When rights have been hard-fought or won (e.g. property rights), then one is either not “progressive” (as if the Left alone has ideas of what progress is) or one is motivated by anger and hate in the left’s description of the world.
The hatred by the left is shown in their claim to be “democratic” while simultaneously denying as hatred any political or social position with which they disagree. If the anger turns to hatred, it’s no wonder when fundamental disregard for other peoples’ ideals and hopes are trampled through leftist self-righteousness.
Hatred itself is a red herring in any discussion with the left. If you’re compassionate about the opposing view of the leftist, then you’re “driven by hate.” This total misdirection from reasonable discussion to accusations of false hatred is enough to cause both the anger and eventual hatred that didn’t originally motivate the opponent’s position.
If there is a problem with the Right, it is to falsely believe that they have a social compact with people who fundamentally want to destroy the very fabric that defines their society. If the Right has a problem, it is in falsely believing that they can appease the Leftist beast by giving in to it in small scraps. Rather than silence the leftist beast, it proves to the left that their self-righteousness was justified and sets them up for their next misguided cause to alter the social compact that binds them with their fellow man. In the process, the epistemological fabric of society is torn asunder. If the right wants peace, to finally be able to say that society is at peace and rest, it can only come about by being hardliners on the issues for which they are passionate. Ignore the claims of “hatred” and know that you stand for something of value while the Left is looking for their newest social fad and fashion.
#104–Alfie==you did not disappoint. You failed to identify a single Obama fallacy. You talked around it a lot, but nothing on point. As I tried to clue you in: disagreeing with someone does not identify a fallacy.
You are a silly person.
Wow, Alfie, that is some boast. You will place yourself on the side that all Obama’s speeches are wrong.
Some time back there was a poster who said they were willing to defend all government regulations. Maybe that was your twin.
Well Alfie–NAME the fallacy Obama committed in the linked speech. Throwing words on a wall is not proof of your claim.
Where is the red herring other than your claim of being able to find it?
Show us.=====copy the exact words and NAME THE FALLACY!
50 BUCKS if you can do it.
#112–OK Alfie==I’ll let you off the hook. No where in the article does Obama say “freedom religion” or “freedom of religion.” The other phrase more fully is: “I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as everyone else in this country. And that includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in Lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances.”
No fallacies except in the same mind that will publicly state that a public figure never makes a statement without a fallacy.
As stated, you can’t make the argument and as you have said, saying you have doesn’t make it so.
Copy the exact words Obama used that comprise a fallacy==not something you simply disagree with.
You can’t do it. But then, no one thought you could.
#114–Alfie==you and I won’t agree who is right or wrong so I post to others who may pass by: you are wrong.
Talking about religion and its related questions necessarily involve the first amendment. The only Red Herring is you claiming restrictions on where a Muslim Church can go that don’t apply to non-Muslim Churches is not a First Amendment Issue: IT IS!
Who, What, When, Where, Why, How one practices their religion, or not, is exactly what the First Amendment is About and “zoning laws” are laws that respect the establishment of religion.
Now, “if” you were right, the fallacy would not be a red herring, it would be a faulty premise. Very closely related and I’d be happy to give you a pass on that if you were right.
But as usual, you are wrong.
I look forward to your next evasion.
Its about propriety, politesse being respectful. The Germans aren’t permitted to build a memorial to WWII soldiers, at Auschwitz, not because none should exist, but because its fitting to do so there.
Nope, not even close. Auschwitz is about GERMANY, as a nation, committing mass murder of millions. There were no German soldiers killed in fighting around Auschwitz. AND, Auschwitz is in Poland, not Germany and I am unaware of any country allowing a former occupier allowing the former occupier to come back and build a monument desecrating the memory of Polish soldiers.
The events of 9/11 were done by a very small group of extremists. We don’t punish the majority for the sins of the minority. Maybe you forget your history, or more like it, you never learned it. Just because the bible has a history of killing off whole cities for the transgressions of a few doesn’t mean we still do it.
Shortly after Columbine Massacre, the NRA held a convention in Denver. The President of the NRA, Charlton Heston, spoke of how the NRA is a responsible organization and one incident by some extreme people shouldn’t reflect on all NRA members.
Now you would have us believe that those that hijacked the planes on 9/11 represent ALL Muslims. That this Community Center is a memorial to those extremists. What a jerk. You’re just a xenophobe trying to justify your racist opinion.
Then a few years ago Ann Coulter published a book where she claimed all widows of those who died in 9/11 were only out for themselves and were just a bunch of selfish people. My my how the right wingers all stood up claiming she had a first amendment right to say that. The very same people now being the loudest about stopping the Community Center. Rush Limpdick, Bill O’Really, Sean Hannity, Micheal Wiener, Dr. Laura, and every other right wing nut failed to chastise for her blatant behavior AGAINST those who died in 9/11. The memory of those who died during 9/11? Ya right, just another attempt by the right wing to rewrite history in order to openly display your hate.
#116
One could easily make the reverse argument with a Nazi memorial; that the people that perpetrated Auschwitz were a minority of all Nazis. That argument is as weak as the argument that 9/11 was only about a dozen guys and an airplane.
This has nothing to do with the right of Muslims to put the mosque near ground zero and you know it. We all agree that they have the right. There are a lot of acts to which we have the right but are nevertheless inappropriate and insensitive. The only reason for putting a mosque near ground zero is to incite people. It has nothing to do with need. It has nothing to do with rights. It has nothing to do with “bringing people together”. There is no good that comes from putting a mosque there.
Frankly, they should simply remove zoning for any religious building in that part of Manhattan. Let the Christians worship somewhere else. Let the Muslims worship somewhere else. This deity is supposedly eternal which means he/she/it will get their message if it is done from mid-town.
#118, Thomas,
One could easily make the reverse argument with a Nazi memorial; that the people that perpetrated Auschwitz were a minority of all Nazis. That argument is as weak as the argument that 9/11 was only about a dozen guys and an airplane.
True, one could make that argument and it would be as you suggest, weak. Which is why I didn’t, Alfie made it.
This has nothing to do with the right of Muslims to put the mosque near ground zero and you know it. We all agree that they have the right. …
This also isn’t about religious freedom, again, as you point out. It is about the right for ALL Americans to enjoy the same freedoms. No one would be up in arms if a Christian Church, Jewish or Buddhist Temple were going up there in stead. It is the arguments used to deny the land use that have stirred the racist pot.
There is no good that comes from putting a mosque there.
Nor would there be any good with putting anything else there, including another Burlington Coat Factory outlet. Unless, of course, you are one of those who would be able to use the Community Center. (Or I suppose shop at the Burlington Coat Factory)
Frankly, they should simply remove zoning for any religious building in that part of Manhattan.
Why stop that short? ANY religious building should be taxed at a regular rate and have the same conditions applied as other forms of activity. Here, in our little town it burns my butt that a church may set up shop anywhere but a strip club may not set up within so far of a church.
#120
RE: Taxing churches
I definitely agree with that. In this day and age, there simply is no reason for allowing churches to be tax exempt.
RE: Other churches
You’d be surprised how much opposition is giving to the building of other churches. I remember some years ago there was a significant backlash against the building of Buddhist temples not too far from me. Of course, if we taxed them, there would likely be less of them…
Is there anything that Uncle Dave doesn’t hate?