Over the weekend, President Obama did something that all American presidents are called upon to do. Defend the Constitution of the United States.
One of those tenets is Freedom of Religion. Not amend section A: popular religion [this week] only.
It’s how and why I feel free to tell folks I’m an atheist – or introduce someone in my family as a student of Buddhism – or note in the course of a conversation about San Antonito Chapel down the road that most of my neighbors are Catholics.
But, right-wing nutballs and the proto-fascists who infest the Tea Party wing of the Republican Party go crap out of their mind if Christian godliness and morality ain’t the only way endorsed to fly straight to heaven. Much less catch a tax break from the IRS.
So, combine all the hypocrisy into one big ball of cigar-snot and mealymouthed punditry – and you get this weekend’s tempest in a teabag.
Here’s a copy of the dangerous sedition uttered by Obama.
I’m not getting into cutting and pasting and commenting line-by-line because, frankly, it’s just the usual straight-up rhetoric required of any official who’s trying to explain our Constitution to people who don’t think it’s worth defending. The whole point of having a standard by which to govern a nation is that it is a standard to be upheld – not amended every time someone asks a hard question or a tough challenge comes along.
Our Founding Fathers realized that and fought and died for it. Now, because some terrorist gangsters come along and say our standards are worthless – a certain portion of our population is willing to prove them correct.
#129
Self-governance means that localities have authority to impose order even if that order has limits. You do not have a right to put a church wherever you wish. For example, you do not have the right to put a church in the middle of a freeway. Freedom of speech and religion has boundaries. Thus, while you do have the right to make statements with which many disagree, you cannot for example make statements about people that are patently false. You cannot set off air horns at midnight in a residential neighborhood. Freedom, or more specifically liberty, does not imply that you are permitted to piss off anyone you wish in any manner you wish. You may have freedom of choice, but you are not free from consequence.
Thomas–again glaringly WRONG. You say: “You do not have a right to put a church wherever you wish.” /// The issue you can’t focus on for some reason is that you do have a right to put a Muslim church wherever churches are allowed to be.
Ain’t FREEDOM a bitch? Evidently, so is spotting the subject of a paragraph?
133, Bobbo,
I understand the point you’re trying to make, but communism is atheistic.
135, Bobbo,
You’re both talking about zoning so the both of you are arguing while agreeing with each other.
Ha, ha. McGuyver–if you understand what I am clearly stating, why don’t you post like you do?
If the commies adopted the Muslim Religion and started building Mosques in the USA with financial ties back to Moscow with secret agents going back and forth to the Mosques and recruting Russian born US citizens to join their religion, then could you post on point?
Constitutional questions always arise in a context. The context here is NOT a zoning issue but rather the application of constitutional rights in a zoning context.
I’ll believe you understand my point when you post as if you do.
#134
You do not have a right to put a church wherever you wish
Once again you are off in left field. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RIGHTS. Yes, Muslims absolutely have a right to put a church there IF zoning allows for it and absolutely it is an awful idea. It should be noted that it is ALSO well within NYC’s right to change the zoning to not allow any church in that area. The only thing that cannot do is to disallow Muslim mosques but allow churches from other religions.
126,
So the Muslim faith is the equivalent of the KKK? If that is what your argument is based on you are the one being specious. Actually you are being more disingenuous.
#141
You are being childish. No I do not equate the KKK with the Muslim religion. Yes, I equate the *act* of the KKK setting up shop in Harlem to be nearly as offensive as Muslims putting a mosque anywhere near ground zero. Hey, not every KKK person lynched a black guy just like not every Muslim person was responsible for the 9/11 hijackers right?
I guess what I don’t understand is that ground zero is a battlefield. So how is it even a Constitutional question? The Gettysburg battlefield has long been the subject of land use planning and land use disputes. It is and has been (rightfully so) very difficult to build on and around battlefields. http://bit.ly/cBOxUB
Just last year a land use battle raged around a proposed museum on private land adjacent to Valley Forge. http://n.pr/a1UG80
At Ground Zero I don’t want a 9/11 flight school, or a 9/11 theme park, or a United Airlines 9/11 museum, or a 9/11 cafe, or a 9/11 casino, nor do I want a 9/11 mosque to help “build bridges”. It’s inappropriate to exploit the battlefield for profit or patronage.
That’s not to say Islamic cultural centers are intrinsically wrong, but simply this one is in the wrong place. That is the debate about this mosque, and it isn’t an attack on Islam or the Constitution to demand that local state and federal efforts need to preserve this battlefield and adjacent areas from exploitive uses. The President really doesn’t get this?? Wow.
#141–smitty==of course the Muslim religion is the equivalent of the KKK except they are WORSE! Thomas is vacilating at increasing frequency between sanity and applying the First Amendment to the issue.
The KKK has many members who are good people as long as you don’t bring up the subject of race. Most of them have never and will never hurt a fly. They just send their tithe into their organization to support their cause.
Same with the Arab Muslims with the subject being their religion which includes everything you do, say, or think during the day.
The KKK is “benign” compared to the Arab Muslims.
Amusing: Muslims fly airplanes into WTC and people think “the problem” is Islam building a Mosque at one particular site? Downright RETARDED!!! The problem is NOT airplanes, not security systems, not overstaying visa’s, not building Mosques: the PROBLEM IS ARAB MUSLIMS.
I guess you maroons will figure this out a few seconds before your grand kiddies throats get cut.
Until then, lets support the First Amendment?
The fact that you are defending the KKK in any way tells me all I need to know about you. The fact is, to say “they have the right” but then say “just don’t exercise it” is just lip service to the constitution.
#146
Again, you are being sophomoric. I’m not defending the KKK in any way, shape or manner and you know it. I’m attempting to get it through your thick skull that just because you have the right to do something does not mean you should do something.
Just because they have the right to put a mosque near ground zero is a FAR cry from saying they SHOULD put one near ground zero. Reasonable people are able to distinguish between the two.
These Muslims certainly have right to be utterly totally devoid of tact and intelligence and put that mosque near ground zero. No question. Legally they have that right and I defend that right. However, don’t come pissing and moaning to us when some nut case sets it on fire. There are even Muslim leaders that are saying it is a bad idea. Legally, someone can put a porn shop and a BBQ Pork place right next the mosque. That too would be a bad decision.
Grow up and learn the difference between what you have a right to do and what is considered tasteless and tacky and is not in the best interest of people living peacefully. No good comes from putting a mosque anywhere near ground zero. None. It is being done to intentionally piss people off. They have that right but that doesn’t make it any less tasteless, tacky and insensitive a decision.
The Right does everything in its power to block the President’s actions, then points and shouts “look, he can’t get anything done”.
I hve yet to see anything from the Right lately not based on hate, greed, or fear.