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so in essence, this is saying “because it’s hard to become a citizen, we should just let them over run our borders”?
Tough shit, you want something good you have to work for it.
What this amusing chart doesn’t acknowledge is that those “fond of telling illegals to get in line” are also comprised of people who have been or still are in that line.
Like myself.
If illegals really want to immigrate to the US then get behind the rest of us, fill out the paperwork, live with the restrictions and wait your turn.
“Right now, I believe we allow illegal immigrants to enlist, let them serve, then kick them out of the country. True or not, its true enough given military service doesn’t give any extra points towards becoming legal.”
By law, you must have begun the immigration process and possess a valid green card to enlist (doesn’t mean that illegals don’t slip through, but that is not the intent of the law).
Immigrants who serve since 9/11 are also afforded a fast-track towards citizenship. So yep, serving in our nations foreign military adventures is worth something I suppose.
#12
You legalize those immigrant (whether *gasp* amnesty or a guest worker), then those folks and companies start paying taxes.
Forgetting the fact that you are taking a steaming dump on the people that immigrated legally, in your plan what happens next? What do we do about the next batch of illegal immigrants? Do we also give them amnesty? Why even have a border if we are not going to enforce the immigration laws?
#17
I’m all for increasing immigration limits. I’m all for streamlining the immigration process. However, that is entirely orthogonal to the question of what to do about people that circumvent those limits or restrictions. If we are not going to enforce the current law and limits, then there is no point in having them at all.
#27
We have two wars, so we should allow anyone who wants to join our military to be citizens if they survive.
Completely agree. In fact, I bet a large number of the illegal immigrants would want that opportunity for training, meals, housing etc.
Right now, I believe we allow illegal immigrants to enlist, let them serve, then kick them out of the country.
I would not kick them out of the country. If you serve five to ten years in the military, I think you should be afforded the privilege of citizenship. In fact, I think you should be required to renounce your original country’s citizenship and become a US citizen in order to take this offer. One of the things the military could do is to train them to speak English which by itself would go a long way towards them getting a job once they got out.
#34
Interesting. Funny that the OP cartoon mentioned nothing about that particular avenue. I’m sure that was merely an oversight ;->.
#27 bobbo said, “Right now, I believe we allow illegal immigrants to enlist, let them serve, then kick them out of the country.”
Not true. Illegal immigrants are not allowed to enlist. My friend from boot camp, when I was in the Navy, earned citizenship for six years of military service. He was from Mexico and was not illegal. He was a skilled musician in the Navy band and knew magic.
“and knew magic.”
By magic, I mean like David Copperfield, not like Harry Potter.
Sea Lawyer, Benjamin, Thomas==I apologize. I was sleepy when writing about the status of immigrants serving in our military. I almost deleted it as too tired to look it up.
A mercenary army can be recruited by cash, or the lure of citizenship. In today’s market, seems to me that citizenship would be the easier route and from what Sea Lawyer posted, still not a lock on that.
I don’t understand what with the lawsuit against Arizona why Obama’s/Feds continuing, on-going/and promise to do nothing about it has not created more of a firestorm. In Obama’s case, not even words are expended to defend his inaction.
It really doesn’t make any sense. If WE THE PEOPLE, cannot even get our servants to perform this most basic of functions, then WE THE PEOPLE, must surely come to see our own irrelevancy, – – – – – – -unless – – – – – – –
WE VOTE ALL INCUMBENTS OUT OF OFFICE!!!!!!
Speaking of what “public servants” should be doing: this whole shitstorm over the Washington Post’s big investigation about the use of contractors for high level intel work is something I’m surprised hasn’t been discussed here yet.
Henry Fonda was picking lettuce in the movie Grapes of Wrath, so I don’t wanna hear any more about how Americans won’t do it.
I am a Mexican with no intention of immigrating to the US (Not that I don’t like it) most Mexicans wouldn’t move to the US as most Americans wouldn’t move to Mexico, Like most things in life it has advantages and disadvantages.
But here are some facts:
If you have a green card you don’t necessarily have to pay taxes in the US. (You can pay them to your home country) So if you want tax revenue you need citizens.
Most people go from Mexico to America for jobs. If there were no jobs there would be a lot less immigration. (BTW: Pay is less here but cost of living is also less here) Health care is free in Mexico so I don’t think that most immigrants are there for the social services.
All this discussion about Mexican immigration will end one way or another as Mexican population growth is slowing down very fast. It wont be long before there won’t be any Mexicans available to migrate. There will be other nationalities, but probably not as compatible with the US as Latin Americans are. (Just look at the problems France is having with their muslim immigrants.
As Americans and Mexicans get older, they will need immigration from other countries to work and pay taxes to maintain social services to aging populations.
We have enough people in the US already. We don’t need immigrant, legal or not, when we have 10% unemployment.
Once we solve the problems of homelessness, drug addiction, under educated children, and poverty in the US, THEN let’s talk about letting more people in.
But KD, when we finally achieve that perfect utopia, then people will argue against immigration on the basis that the “furriners” will mess it up.
its amazing ow many of these same arguments have been used over and over through the history of the US, and it always boils down to thinly veiled racism – whether against irish, italians, jews, mexicans, asians, etc, etc.
#42–you’reaMexican==your solution that Mexican birth rate is falling and will not provide many emmigrants is a FAIL. What “may” happen in the future is no fix for what is happening now. Pretty “basic.”
#44–tcc3==”Your summary of history troubles me.” /// Seems to me, the history is much like now? Those legally here complaining about pressure on jobs/wages by those newly arrived whether legal or illegal? Then, yes, charges of racism get layered on top of that to varying degrees of validity. Mostly invalid though as the primary concern is totally valid and what comes after that is pretty much irrelevant?
I didn’t mean to imply there was no immigration problem bobbo. Lets decide on a system that suits our needs as a society and carry that plan out.
My beef was with the “We have enough people”, “Immigrants steal all of our jobs,” “Immigrants destroy our culture,” etc, etc.
Those aren’t real arguments nor are they solutions. They are Xenophobic soundbytes to sway the ignorant to a side.
tccs – we have identified the beef: do immigrants take jobs from the legally here or not?
And the answer is: OF COURSE THEY DO!!!!!
So, the issue actually is who benefits and who loses by immigrants (legal and illegal) coming in and taking jobs from those already here?
And the answer is: Those who hire these immigrants at lower wages, and those who assume they get their votes.
And if you disagree with this benefit to our overlords, THEN you are a racist.
Seems to me you have this hook firmly lodged in your jaw bone along with the sinker, and the line?
Pretty straightforward???? What has you confused?
Yes indeed most of our ancestors would never have passed the standards today.
This country would have about 30 million people in it.
Wow it would be Canada!
Cursor_
But you make my point for me boobo. The problem is with those who would exploit immigrants (especially illegal ones), not the immigrants themselves.
I’m all for sticking it to companies who employ illegals for slave wages. Their argument that “Americans wont do this work” often translates to “Americans wont work for the pittance we want to pay”
Ignoring the root of the problem while vilifying the symptom (often with racist arguments) solves nothing. It only perpetuates the situation. Fixing the problem does three things: reduces cheap exploitable labor, makes waves with a powerful voting minority, and reduces the ability of wily politicians to leverage racial hate and fear to sway another powerful voting bloc.
All exploitation, all the time. No one wants to solve this problem. Its too useful.
how is this an argument against enforcing immigration laws?
CHANGING them, yes. But they’re laws.
look it up. “Rule of law.” When the law is an ass, change it- if you instead just ignore it, you’re the dee-dee-dee.
As a sub-issue, we also have an existing standard re: how to treat people who are guilty of violating laws which have been rescinded or otherwise changed so that the previously illegal behavior is no longer prohibited. Don’t assume we open the jailhouse doors in that case- that is not the law on the sub-issue.
This whole issue offends me. The Mexicans (that’s a nationality, btw, not a race, and my comment is explicitly about NATIONS and FOREIGN NATIONALS who knowingly sneaked in to our country knowing they would be unwelcome in general and subject to sanction) harangue us, call us racist, for defending our border against intruders? Look at how they deal with THEIR southern border. Think rifle butts and disappearances.
Then there are the unscrupulous elements in our own polity who use whatever they can to achieve the same ends, year after year. Abolishing borders and citizenship (let’s not pretend that that’s not the desired end state for some of the participants in this “debate”) serves some of them politically.
Don’t let a crisis go to waste!
It should go without saying- on this issue, defending the borders serves the other side less directly- but that doesn’t mean they aren’t just riddled with those same unscrupulous elements.
ohhhh…. horrible… I am agreeing with bobbo of the “clever” captions…
I don’t understand what Uncle Dave Stalin wants, we have 22% unemployment. We do not need more mouths here lowing the our wages or standard of living or sitting on welfare/social security. They take up all the slots for degrees in Universities. They take up the apartheid job quotas from the Blacks and legal Spanish.
We don’t need more diversity apartheid from the Progressive/Commies. We need manufacturing jobs, We need tariffs, We need to deport the illegal and the legals out of this country.
Whatever…………………………
Traaxx
tcc3… really?
No blame at all for the people who knowingly transgress our laws? Who sneak in? None? REALLY?
Only racism can justify any desire on the part of ANY individual to maintain our borders? REALLY?
You’re so sure of yourself. About me, and my interior life. Must be nice. I’ll bet you never lose an argument, as far as you’re concerned. Enjoy that.
So full of snark and misrepresentation. Seems I struck a nerve.
Yes, people who flouted the rules to come here are problematic and share responsibility. But that pales in comparison to the people / organizations who enable that behavior, and then take advantage of the desperately poor.
The problem will not be solved with amnesty, since the cause will just import more exploitable labor.
The problem will not be solved with a iron fisted crackdown on the illegals. As long as the situation exists, they’ll come back again and again.
You cant put out the fire as long as people with a vested interest keep throwing gasoline on it.
Racism may not be the only factor. It may not be yours. But I keep seeing the same tired chestnuts trotted out against newcomers (even legals) again and again. Racism is the motivation for some folks, and its being exploited for political gain.
#54–tcc3==you are rambling, waffling, not consistent, and doubling back on yourself.
You say: “But that pales in comparison to the people / organizations who enable that behavior, and then take advantage of the desperately poor.” /// Now, those ENABLERS are those who hire illegal aliens. True, they may be “racists” but that also pales in comparison to those who just want lower labor costs regardless of the race of the exploited–ie, not racists.
If it is a true fact that 80% of jobs taken by illegal immigrants are brown or yellow skinned, and 95% of the upset people are upset because they are out of work and want those jobs, and they cry “Stop Immigration, We have too many people out of work already.” how is that racist? And even if there is a racist component, or to the degree there is a racist component, why does the job displacement not trump the other cause? I have never heard complaints about foreigners taking jobs, coming here, when there was a labor shortage.
Seems the only person advancing a racist agenga, is YOU.
Boo hoo.
Despite the Democrats’ best efforts there aren’t enough wards of the state, so they have to illegally import them.
ATTENTION! THIS IS ABOUT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION–NOT LEGAL IMMIGRATION. GET IT!
No longer is it just Arizona’s motivation any more, other states are following Arizona’s example with the same policing law, as a facsimile of the federal law. Already a special session of Florida’s, Georgia and Utah’s legislative, wants to implement a series of laws, that will not only be the same as Arizona’s, but will use the great barrier against illegal labor, but will resort to harsh sanctions for business men who have ignored the immigration laws for at least 30 years.
Amnesty that was purportedly to halt these violations in the workplace; no administration has solidly enforced these laws. Now with the inception of E-Verify, that has been increasingly modified, an updated program with strong safeguards, its growing technology can detect stolen documents and sham social security numbers. Republican Senator Jeff Sessions introduced an amendment in 2009 that would have made E-Verify permanent and mandatory for all, but especially for construction companies. Senator Reid did not allow the idea to come up for a vote and the evidence is there that Reid tried to kill E-Verify from the beginning. The 2009 numbers show Nevada is a state with one of the highest percentage of “unauthorized immigrants” in the labor force. Reid’s office also downplayed E-Verify as inaccurate, citing recent Social Security Administration numbers.
But the federal government’s (GAO) own contracted accountants; established E-Verify worked 99-percent of the time. Harry Reid was not always an ardent crusader of amnesty for the 18 and up– million illegal aliens in America. Reid once called illegal aliens “free loaders and scam artists.” which he proposed to deal with in his Immigration Stabilization Act in the United States Senate in 1993.” That proposed legislation was presented to the floor of the US Senate with the subsequent press release, in part, issued by Reid’s office on August 5, 1993.“ When responding to increased terrorism and abuse of social welfare programs by illegal aliens, Harry Reid announced the first and only comprehensive immigration reform bill in Congress.
Currently, an alien living illegally in the United States often pays no taxes but receives unemployment, welfare, free medical care, food stamps, Section 8 housing, specific if they have a birthright citizen child and other federal benefits. Same with the “DREAM ACT” like always American taxpayers will become the benefactor, same with Anchor Babies. Previous terrorist acts, including the World Trade Center bombing, have accentuated the need to keep violent criminals out of the country.” Currently, in a round-about-turn Senator John McCain, has changed his tune just as Reid has moved opposite direction as pro- amnesty zealot. Unlike Reid’s proposed plan on immigration reform package, McCain has now expressed his judgment of enforcing the border first?
INCIDENTALLY, I WONDER HOW MANY SENATORS OR REPRESENTATIVES REALIZE THAT THIS WAS NOT THE ORIGINAL BORDER FENCE. THAT TWO FENCES SEPARATED BY A TRACK FOR THE US BORDER PATROL OF A HUNDRED YARDS WAS ORIGINALLY PLANNED? At present I question why President Obama has deployed troops on the border, as they have no power to initiate an arrest or shoot drug smugglers? Sen. Reid should now be carefully watched, as with having a large population of illegal immigrants that will violate the law in voting him back into office. His opponent Sharron Angle can be molded by public opinion, but Reid has too many questionable irons in the fire. Many favors have likely been brought from special interests and open border trash, Faith groups which need him as in top leadership to try and force through another trillion dollar amnesty.
If the illegal immigration invasion was intended to be a federal violation, then why did they make entering the United States a misdemeanor, instead of a felony? IF ARIZONA”S POLICING LAW IS A FEDERAL VIOLATION, WHY HASN’T THE GOVERNMENT SWEPT DOWN ON THE PROMOTERS OF SANCTUARY CITIES? Ask your Representatives in Congress and state assemblies these questions at 202-224-3121. Don’t wait! Bombard your lawmakers with your demands or see this country become overpopulated and in many neighborhoods third world slums, costing US taxpayers billions more in welfare programs.
#21 – canada is a bit simpler.
You can apply for specific in-demand job areas in specific provinces. You don’t need an employer in advance – although if you do it’s very quick. A bit like an H1B but can change jobs so no wage slavery.
Or you can just apply for permanent residence (equivalent to green card). It’s points based – but speaking English and having a degree or two, or being < 40 is enough. You can work for anybody or yourself.
Then you just need to live there for 3years and can apply for citizenship, of course it takes about 3years for them to do the paper work – nobody ever accused Ottawa of being hasty!
Yes, it’s hard to get in because half the population of the planet is knocking on the door. Letting everyone in would certainly solve the problem because the country would suck so bad everyone would be trying to get out.