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#28–chuck==yes, if the USA doesn’t allow man made destruction of coastal waterways, then only Mexico will be destroying their coastal waterways.
We have a destruction of coastal waterways gap! We can’t let Mexico get ahead of us in destroying our precious natural resources. We have to fight back!
You sound like a bona fide NRA member? How many guns do you own?
#30–Ah Yea==point is “Oil” doesn’t work either. There are pro’s and con’s to everything thing we do/don’t do. So, alternative energy cannot replace energy today. Will it replace Carbon Burning 20 years from now if we do nothing now to support it? Maybe. Do the odds go up if we do a moon shot for renewables? I think so.
So luddite in your thinking. I hope it was a brain fart. Likewise your political insight. There is no “dictatorship.” Very limbaugh of you.
The Conservative Right: do nothing. Let Big Corp continue to rape the world.
when did Obama turn into a white man?
The true face of conservatives: Business first, America second.
“I’m ashamed of what happened in the White House yesterday,” said Rep. Joe Barton (R-Tex.) during a hearing on Thursday morning with BP’s CEO Tony Hayward.” I think it is a tragedy in the first proportion that a private corporation can be subjected to what I would characterize as a shakedown — in this case a $20 billion shakedown — with the attorney general of the United States, who is legitimately conducting a criminal investigation and has every right to do so to protect the American people, participating in what amounts to a $20 billion slush fund that’s unprecedented in our nation’s history, which has no legal standing, which I think sets a terrible precedent for our nation’s future.”
“I’m only speaking for myself. I’m not speaking for anyone else, but I apologize,” Barton added. “I do not want to live in a county where anytime a citizen or a corporation does something that is legitimately wrong, [it is] subject to some sort of political pressure that, again, in my words, amounts to a shakedown.”
The White House response:
“What is shameful is that Joe Barton seems to have more concern for big corporations that caused this disaster than the fishermen, small business owners and communities whose lives have been devastated by the destruction,” said White House spokesman Robert Gibbs. “Congressman Barton may think that a fund to compensate these Americans is a ‘tragedy’, but most Americans know that the real tragedy is what the men and women of the Gulf Coast are going through right now. Members from both parties should repudiate his comments.”
“While the President has worked to ensure that BP is held fully accountable to the families and small businesses of the Gulf, Republicans and Joe Barton are proving that they are only accountable to BP and the oil industry,” added DNC spokesman Hari Sevugan. “While the President has secured a guarantee of at least $20 billion for Gulf Coast residents, Republicans and Joe Barton have lined their pockets with BP contributions and stock dividends. While the President has gotten BP to rightfully apologize to the American people for their reckless behavior, their inexcusable response and their insulting approach, Republicans are apologizing to BP. Republicans could not have this more backward, and it raises serious questions as to why they are on the side of BP and the oil companies instead of that of the American people.”
(following up my #34)
I am truly ashamed to live in Texas. The apology of a US Representative to BP for having BP set aside $20 Billion to make sure that American people are REFUNDED their losses due to BP’s industrial accident is beyond shameful, it is just plain disgraceful.
Bobbo, jog your memory. Go back and review what I posted in #74 and the subsequent followup. It is very detailed in what could be done and why your renewable Moon Shot is wishful thinking.
Don’t you understand why your Moon Shot analogy doesn’t work?
When we did our Moon Shot, we were improving EXISTING TECHNOLOGY. Remember this guy called Werner Von Braun? He had a WORKING TECHNOLOGY which was improved for our Moon Shot.
We didn’t start from wishful thinking. We also didn’t start from scratch. We evolutionary improved PROVEN EXISTING TECHNOLOGY.
So what existing technology do we have to improve?
Biofuels? HAR!
Wind? HAR! HAR!
Solar? HAR! HAR! HAR!!
Did you forget our conversation of no more than two days ago?
Remember our conversation about Atomic Fusion?
Hope your memory lapse was just a brain fart.
About Dictatorship and eliminating discourse.
Maybe, possibly, if we had a little less Democratic Dictatorship we wouldn’t be many more trillions of dollars in debt to those who do not have our best interest in mind.
Maybe it’s better to say NO, instead of yes to every stupid harebrained scheme some politico cooks up to help his image or her election. At our expense, of course.
It’s better to say NO, slow down, and get everyone on board than do what our government has been doing since the election.
(BTW, Republicans are just as bad. I’ll go with THROW OUT ALL THE INCUMBENTS, and elect representative who actually represent the people)
Awake–its truly hard to fathom isn’t it? Flipping whats good for America on its head like that allows one to think the worst when the issues aren’t so clear.
The most depressing quote of the year.
the solution to our energy problems is micro nukes.
it would be cool to drive around with a fingernail-sized piece of plutonium in the trunk.
Her speech had strong actions. His had weak actions.
This disaster exposed that our drilling for self sufficiency is hollow. we actually pay incentives to this British company drilling oil off our coast under a third country’s flag.
They were not harvesting “our” oil for us. They were taking the oil for the international corporate market to be sold to us like all the foreign oil we currently buy.
#35–Ah Yea==the analogy you trash is completely appropo.
You list:
Biofuels? HAR!
Wind? HAR! HAR!
Solar? HAR! HAR! HAR!!
Did you forget our conversation of no more than two days ago?
All those technologies exist today and I assume all could be improved on by investing in R&D and by incentivizing our economy to go it that direction.
Do I need to link, or will you admit, that an area 100 miles square using solar-thermal could provide all of USA’s energy needs?
Bio-fuel will also benefit from genome research. I’m waiting for a dark process so that co2 smoke stack waste can be dumped into large vats with microbes outputting liquid hydrocarbons.
Just yesterday I saw the annoucement of the first consumer level fuel cell battery replacement going on market.
But beyond all this==renewables is the way to go. ANY progress along said development lines is progress. Continued use of carbon based fuels is failure. See the difference? Progress vs Failure???
Why you can’t be informed of the dangers of nuke energy by the Gulf Oil disaster is beyond me. I already posted if the new nuke technology can consume its own waste that I’m all for it. You are aware of all the damage to our environment caused by uranium extraction? Why do you totally disregard our environment? Its not all controlling, but likewise it should not be ignored.
“Do I need to link, or will you admit, that an area 100 miles square using solar-thermal could provide all of USA’s energy needs?”
So could enough people hooked up to bicycle powered generators. Although in both cases, the cost/kw/h is FAR too high.
Anonsense–and you know this how? Have you added in the cost of the Gulf Oil Spill? Do you add in the covert subsidies like road building maintenance rather than use of rail? Do you add in an actuarial amount for our exposure to foreign manipulation because of our dependence on their oil? Do you add in the cost of fighting wars to secure the oil? Do you add in the damage to USA by insurgents funded by the oil revenue?
Do you? Or do you just blow into the wind?
I love that she used the term “Fake President Obama”.
Speaks volumes.
bobbo #29
You are obviously correct, I screwed up and did not post my text. BTW the mention of the Rahm Emanuel quote was Mike’s as well.
Mextli==I look forward to seeing your text when you favor us with it.
FYI–MikeN, aka “Lying Mike” is a well known far right reactionary who never gets anything right. Then, for the last week or so he’s been uncharacteristically neutral. I try to encourage him to come out of his shell, but he’s a shy person.
No cover associating with anyone else. Stand or fall on your own merits.
bobbo, you are starting to scare me.
I usually lambaste others for not reading my comments or links, little did I foresee that I would also have to lambaste YOU for not doing the same!
Shame on you.
Everything you stated was already answered in the previous thread, starting on Post #72.
Let’s start with “I assume all could be improved on by investing in R&D”. No. Not true. I already answered this in the Previously Mentioned Post #72!
“I’m waiting for a dark process”.
Yes, and I am waiting for the Second Coming. But in the mean time…
Next you said: “You are aware of all the damage to our environment caused by uranium extraction? Why do you totally disregard our environment?
Again, I answered this in, what? POST #72!!! What part of “Not to mention we already have 728,000 pounds of material which can be converted for power generation already!!” missed your comprehension??
It’s already dug up! It’s already extracted! So where do you get “damage to our environment” from something we already have produced??
“100 miles square using solar-thermal…” Wow, this borders on insanity. Very Dallas, very un-bobbo. Do you have any idea how solar panels are made? You tell me the “environmental damage” that would be caused by building 100 square miles of solar panels? Production of solar panels is an intense process similar to production of computer chips. How many more Fab plants will have to be made to create only ONE square mile of solar cells?
Please, when I ask you to review what we already discussed just two days ago, either remember or please refresh your memory.
I’d hit it!
Ah Yea–did I read your #72 previously? I think so and mostly negated it point by point in a longish linked response that got lost with DU going down yesterday and my computer backup going astray. So, with honest respect for the work it takes to competently respond to an honest post, I will go read it again or for the first time and post back in more detail.
But in the meantime, I did say solar-THERMAL, not cell. And I thought I was quite leading edge in desiring a dark bio mass process. I do wonder if you really anticipated me? Wonderful if you did.
Isn’t the whole point of R&D and releasing the inventiveness of the private market by way of taxing oil the fact that “new Ideas” are developed? I’m sure that there were some “new ideas” in the development of the space program rather than just the more sterile application of known technology that you claim. For instance, I assume Tang already existed, but the Space Program made it taste better–that kind of thing?
Bobbo, I do very much enjoy debating with you. One of the few reasons I come to this site.
I also got clobbered when the site went down yesterday. Not a very good sign that a tech site cannot seem to stay up!
I do agree with your investment in tech approach, but not as a Plan A, but as a Plan B.
With Plan A being the use of technologies we already posses to bridge the gap to those better technologies which may appear in the future. (Or may not…)
Remember, as far a Nuke goes, we already have the material, and a nuke plant is only good for at best 40 years.
40 years, enough time for Plan B?
Maddow gives a great speech. Obama could learn from this guy.
Ah Yea–its good to see we are in basic agreement then. Just terminology? afterall, Plan A is pretty close to plan B–in certain ways?
But it highlights a philosophical divide. Say we have a Billion to invest in energy self sufficiency. Should it be spent on renewables or in developing coal reserves/deep ocean oil drilling/methane mining?
I have my answer and reasoning all prepared. Interested in hearing your views.
Ah Yea–My review of your post #72==you falter. Calling for a moon shot program for energy independence is almost “by definition” NOT business as usual. You must be thinking of something else while typing a nonsense rhyme?
Accident and INTENTIONAL sabotage/terrorism. Yes. That is a major drawback of large capital intensive centralized power companies. Same problem with coal plants. Better to have a decentralized power system that individually aren’t worthy of attack. The National Security advantage of having my house powered by its roof is worth a HUGE subsidy over having cheaper power delivered by a Nuke.
A lot of money has not been thrown at alternative energy. Are you confusing give aways to various business groups in the form of tax rebates and incentives to be a lot of money spent on the intellectual development of energy alternatives? Note the same thing at all.
“Throwing money at a problem” normally involves just funding what is already in place. The fraud but continues. That follows your recommendation to throw money at Nuke Power. NO! I’m saying artificially if you will, increase the cost of oil and all the market to respond with cost saving renewable/cheaper alternatives.
Its silly to suggest that throwing money at an issue, or more precisely==to fund research programs, is a waste of time. In counterpoint: the genome program. When it started, it took a million dollars and 5 years to map a genome. The Moore’s law re computing power advanced and now it takes a few weeks and 10,000 bucks. A few days and a thousand dollars is expected shortly. Same with energy. Don’t be such a luddite.
The gas/oil tax is phased in. As long as gas/oil is needed, no jobs will be lost. Can’t you juggle more than one ball at a time? The notion that 80% of wind farm funding has gone overseas goes to a separate jobs/manufacturing policy issue. There are jobs in the USA for erecting and maintaining the Wind Farms and in building the energy grid required. Silly to say these jobs are going to wind up in China and India.
I do understand that current Nuke power design arose out of the government throwing money at the ridiculous idea that a new bomb might be possible. If there is safe nuke power that can consume what is now nuke waste, we should pursue that by all means. How come no one is? Your notion that current nuclear warheads can be used to generate nuke power IS NOT THE ISSUE. What to do with the waste is the issue. I recall about 15 years ago an article about the current demonstration project that was supposed to last 100 years: incasing nuke waste in fiberglass and concrete containers. After only 3 years, it was discovered there was some as then unknown electrolysis reaction in play causing the containers to leak. Why play with poison having a half life of 780 Million years?
I will also note your dismissive attitude regarding R&D for a dark bio fuel process shows a fundamental lack of imagination. Research into such tecniques could be a complete revolution: turning waste products/pollution into a resource. A Huge win if it is possible. My faith is that it is possible, just may not be discovered, but worth the effort. Pure science with immediately practical application. Better than teflon.
I’m not interested in further oil exploration. That’s a dead end, literally.
We do need to get off the oil bandwagon, and the sooner – the better.
Ultimately, I cannot see us doing anything other than using technologies which do not pollute, irregardless of what other countries do or don’t do.
For me, it’s the Sooner Is Better that rules. Hence the short term nuclear replacing the immediately problematic coal and oil fired plants.
Combine this with inexpensive electric cars along with inexpensive charging stations at home and alongside the gas pumps, which a cost of pennies per mile as compared to the gasoline dollars.
That alone would make a dramatic impact. It’s also doable in the short term if we have the national will to do so. I believe this could be a reality in 5 years.
That would be good stuff.
So yes, us thinking minds are in very good agreement. No surprise!
Well, thanks Ah Yea, but I’m not giving up on my anti-nuke position. I get dizzy whenever I hear pro-Nuke advocates call it “the only clean energy we have” and such nonsense.
No–the failure to deal with the waste products is no smarter than drilling in the deep ocean with no response possible to a spill. Same with Nuke. Might be very rare, but when a plant really blows, we have chernoble: a waste land for years, down wind cancer rates etc, and as you continue to ignore: a target for terrorists.
But we are on board for getting off oil asap by developing alt energy. And thats a good thing.
After 53 rounds, the score is World 33,
bobbo, obama’s goat 20.
#19.
No. She does not SCARE me. Dumbshit. I find her fucking stupid and full of shit.
jbelies–I appreciate the compliment. Just one thread at a time.
#56–Faxon/Faxoff-(I’d rather have the clap)== Well, I see those ToastMaster classes are really working out for you.
So again–what doesn’t make your eyes hurt? Limbaugh? Beck? The Holy Bible? Hmmmm. No, from your comments, it looks like Hard Core Porn with animals. Ha, ha.
Rant on. Fax-off.
I can live with no cap on liability. Those provisions I think are there just with BP and the current situation in mind.
My guess is the reason for a cap, other than it helps industry, is that there is a public policy concern of having oil drilling, and without a cap, it could leave us with no one willing to drill.
I don’t have a problem with Barton’s statement. Why would an administration that has been offering jobs for political purposes, pushes a stimulus and a takeover of GM to suit their political friends, be given control of another $20 billion? Let the courts handle claims.
Mike–so you call this a “public policy concern” rather than the pay back for corrupt political campaigns huh?
Something tells me YOU are part of the problem, and not part of the solution.
Please try to stand up on your hind legs and join the human race.