Saudi Arabia has conducted tests to stand down its air defences to enable Israeli jets to make a bombing raid on Iran’s nuclear facilities, The Times can reveal.
In the week that the UN Security Council imposed a new round of sanctions on Tehran, defence sources in the Gulf say that Riyadh has agreed to allow Israel to use a narrow corridor of its airspace in the north of the country to shorten the distance for a bombing run on Iran. To ensure the Israeli bombers pass unmolested, Riyadh has carried out tests to make certain its own jets are not scrambled and missile defence systems not activated. Once the Israelis are through, the kingdom’s air defences will return to full alert.
“The Saudis have given their permission for the Israelis to pass over and they will look the other way,” said a US defence source in the area. “They have already done tests to make sure their own jets aren’t scrambled and no one gets shot down. This has all been done with the agreement of the [US] State Department.”
Sources in Saudi Arabia say it is common knowledge within defence circles in the kingdom that an arrangement is in place if Israel decides to launch the raid. Despite the tension between the two governments, they share a mutual loathing of the regime in Tehran and a common fear of Iran’s nuclear ambitions. “We all know this. We will let them [the Israelis] through and see nothing,” said one.
That’s it?
Would you like to offer an opinion or just critique other’s opinions? I repeat and expand. Do you think Iran would nuke Israel if it had the capability? Should Israel attack Iran? Should we help Israel attack Iran? Do you think it is possible to stop Iran’s nuclear program militarily? What would the consequences be?
What I usually draw from conflicting statements is that you should not trust either without proof.
My final advice was not to a “…current nuclear power…”, it was to the people that (unlike you or me) may, have to make the choice at a future date if faced by imminent attack. You apparently read the whole post so you should be aware that my final statement began “If Israel cannot stop Iran from nuking it”. Would you advise them to stay?
P.S. I went home for lunch in third grade, usually after reading comprehension.
#19, Iraq and Afghanistan both border Iran, so the troop withdrawal may just be a plan to send everyone across the border.
Iran is entitled to nuclear power under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, AND other signatories are obligated to provide it. So it is the US and other countries that are in violation of this treaty in insisting that Iran follow additional protocols before they can have nuclear power. Iran even made some concessions, but that was not good enough for the US.
Now Iran has the tacit support of Russia and China and India in its actions. Against that, how can any sanctions regime be practical?
#32–LDA==well, you are right. I read right past your “what if.” A bit knee jerk on my part not to give an idiotic hypothetical a full stop before proceeding on. I apologize.
How about THIS hypothetical: The use of nuclear weapons turns desert sand into gold with no residual radioactivity and makes all women who are exposed to its initial flash much more beautiful in mens eyes and makes all the men have 6 packs of steel. NOW should the Iraeli’s run away?
I would think not.
But what if the hypothetical was sheer nonsense, like mine, that only a retard would think it was worthy of consideration?
Why then we might deal with reality: What should Israel do as it becomes accepted wisdom that Iran is within a few months of having a Nuke?
What then? I hope all rationale people KNOW what the answer is. Really, another worthless hypothetical.
#35 bobbo
Do you think Iran would nuke Israel if it had the capability? Should Israel attack Iran? Should we help Israel attack Iran? Do you think it is possible to stop Iran’s nuclear program militarily? What would the consequences be?
#36–LDA==I’ll answer as honestly as I can, with a fresh slate.
Do you think Iran would nuke Israel if it had the capability? /// I take what they have said to date as if the would, or at least threaten the same. While that could be their desire, I tend to think they would not do so directly, but instead would use a truck bomb and try to lay the blame off on insurgents/Palestinians or whatever other red herring defense. I see THAT alternative as the most likely, even probable given the mix of nationalistic and religious/anti-Jewish elements running amuck in the ME. I see the same threat against the USA as well, via container ship bomb. Don’t know which would really come first==probably against the US. Intelligence gathering is weaker in the US and such a move would have wider support in the ME given current state of affairs among the zealots.
Should Israel attack Iran? /// I don’t see any alternative. Like the Existential Challenge in the Poisiden Adventure, I’d rather die trying to protect myself than die from inaction waiting on nothing but hope to save me.
Should we help Israel attack Iran? /// Yes as we are the Great Satan, Israel is nothing but our ally.
Do you think it is possible to stop Iran’s nuclear program militarily? /// Yes, very easy. Military and technical prowess of a country as backward as Iran is very weak with no resiliency. Recall Iran and Iraq fought each other in constant stalemate for 10 years. We beat Iraq in 4 days with half an effort.
What would the consequences be? /// Oil prices would go up.
#28 My position is I can’t control what other people think. Everybody that has made reasonable suggestions to the Palestinians has at best been used to buy time and a chance to recover until the people bent on blood feud find a chance to kill some more Jews.
Very few Jews in the Holy land are going to leave no matter what. They will die there.
That being the case I’m not going to waste my time claiming to have a reasonable or sane solution to the problem when I don’t.
The fighting will continue until one side or the other is exterminated or a third power moves in and largely exterminates both sides and replaces them with others who don’t care about the views of the present belligerents.
#38–do-ill==resolute in stating just the obvious. Well, that better than too many here who can’t even state the obvious.
Why not take a whack at the very specific and reasonable question you were actually asked?
The Iranians have never threatened to nuke Israel. Closest thing was some disparaging coments about Zionist political parties that have been widely mistranslated.
What they have said clearly is that nuclear weapons are unislamic and cowardly, in a number of fatwas. After the infalibility damaging green revolution, walking back on those statements would utterly destroy the shiite religous order.
Israel is doing more to destroy themselves with their beligerance than Iran ever could. If they bomb Iran, and unleash fallout upon China and Russia, even the US won’t be able to do anything to save them.
li–you are a hack, shill, tool, and transparently bigoted propagandist. Want to tell us how there was no Holocaust and no homosexuals in Iran either?
What a dope. At least you are too stupid to hide it.
http://freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2137324/posts
pOLY TICKS= infested bird.
The thing I learned long ago about ALL lands and people..
That if you look around yourself, you will find JUST as many idiots, around you NOW, as if you were from that nation, THINKING about our nation.
80-90% of the people JUST WANT TO BE LEFT ALONE, to make a living and dont really care.
its the 10% that cause MORE SPIT’ to happen, for NO REASON, then any other.
How do you make things happen?? BS. PASS it around and find enough people to BELIEVE IT, and it will happen. MAKE those 10% paranoid, and they will react. IF those 10% react, and SOMETHING STUPID happens…THOSE other 90% may JOIN THOSE IN CHARGE.
NOW, try to apologize to those 90% for making a mistake. That you DIDNT want this to happen.
LET the BS fly. BE an idiot and listen to OTHERS. DONT realize that the 90% around you only want to LIVE. because IF’ you do the WRONG THING, those 90% behind you, WONT BE BEHIND YOU.
#37 bobbo
Thanks.
>If they did that they would be toast (so I tend to think they wouldn’t).
>Fair enough. So would I, but I would rather not die if it wasn’t necessary.
>I think Israel would need all the help they can get.
>I read a report that said there was no (publicly known) way to bomb their underground facilities know (due to underground fortification), but if you kill enough people I guess it might work.
Iraq vs. Iran was actually U.S. vs. Russia (which means we already proxy-killed a million Iranians, I wonder if that has anything to do with their hostility) and the Iraq we fought was already crippled and mostly unwilling and unable to fight (happily).
I assume Israel with the U.S. could relatively easily overcome Iran’s military and then destroy it’s nuclear enrichment facilities, but I am skeptical that Israel could do it alone and I do not see any indication that the U.S. will launch a joint attack. I think Israel wanted to do it ages ago and the fact that they blew up the Syrian (and Iraqi) nuclear facility shows they are willing to strike pre-emptively but the fact they haven’t suggests they are unable, either for logistical or technological reasons.
>I suspect there would be much wider implications, most of which I would be willing to bear if I thought a nuclear strike on Israel was likely and preventable.
P.S. I hope I am right or that you are and we act in time. In the end we are both just spectators.
LDA — spectators and blowhards. Yes, I agree.
Not to quibble or change the subject “but” this notion that we/Israel can’t take out all the multiple hardened nuclear sights is I think irrelevant. Kill enough scientists, support facilities, political leaders, infrastructure, port facilities, energy distribution, food reserves, etc and the “will” to produce nukes will end before the raw ability to do so does.
ECA above makes an excellent point about 90 or more of the population just wanting to be left alone. Unfortuneately, its that 10% of the 10% that makes history.
At the end of the day, these issues are complex, historic, subject to fudge (see li for a sad example) and so forth==so, I go with “what is” rather than what I would wish for. All a meaningless tautology: if Iran decides to nuke Israel, they will. If Israel decides to pre-empt Iran, they will. Talking about the morality of it all seems rather pointless, yet thats all what too many can do.
#44 bobbo
Yep.
# 30 Ah_Yea – Money talks. China would economically collapse if we pressed a tariff against them.
Oh_Yeah, Ah_Yea, you are right. Sadly, it would also destroy our own economy and send the rest of the world’s economy into freefall. China only continues to hold our debt because we buy so damned much from them. Stop buying and they have no reason to be our debtors.
If Iran ever did nuke Israel it would kill not two but three birds with one stone, so to speak. No Israel, but also No Gaza and no West Bank. Just a glass paved desert. Problem solved.
“Are Iranian Nuke Plants About To Be Bombed?”
I doubt anyone really knows.
Given that Iran, Russia and China have had joint military exercises, Israel may find out that such a move is not a realistic option. It may turn out that Iran is under the Russian nuclear umbrella much as it has been under the Russian security-council veto umbrella. It may be that the only way to find out is to try it.
There is also the issue of air defense. There is no guarantee that you can get a manned aircraft of any sort through a modern air defense system. I realize that the last showing of US anti-missile technology was less than completely impressive but I think the Russians are clever at that sort of thing and the Iranians certainly have had plenty of motivation to get it right. Again, we’ll just have to see.
Military organizations routinely plan for a wide variety of scenarios, just because there is a plan for something, doesn’t mean that there has been a commitment to action.
Then there is the question of what assets the Russians have in the Caspian.
As for the US unconditional support of Israel, it’s not all that unconditional. In fact, it has always been on the condition that members of the US government receive large heaps of cash. I’m not aware of anyone committing suicide for the sake of a bribe so it seems there must be a limit to US support for Israel.
To quote Ernest Hemingway, “All thinking men are atheists”. For the sake of argument, now that Bush is out of the White house, the US leadership might not feel that Israel must exist at all costs.
Realizing this, Israel should be cautious and not trade a status-quo in which it exists for an uncertain future in which it might not.
Com’on….com’on…
Bomb the fuck out of the ragheads.
Time for the thermonuclear solution to this puny dictator. I agree with Bobbo for once. Little rattlesnakes have a more poisonous venom that the older ones.
I will be looking forward to sand turning to glass.
#46 Maricopa,
I appreciate your agreement on my main point. To go one further, you also stated, “it would also destroy our own economy..”
Fortunately, no. Not by a long shot. It would hurt, but not as much as one might think, and here is why (looking at the big picture).
The US has a GDP of ~14.250 trillion dollars. China has a GDP of ~4.900 trillion dollars. About 1/3 of the US.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29
The US imports from China are ~300 billion dollars, or only 2% of the entire US economy annually.
But for China, their exports to the US amounts to about 6% of their entire economy.
We can easily survive a 2% drop in imports, specially since what we now import from China can quickly be moved to Singapore, Malaysia, etc.
China, on the other hand, cannot replace the US as a trading partner. That income disappears and cannot be replaced.
Wall Street Journal
http://tinyurl.com/247ra8a
Ergo, a trade war with China would sting the US a bit, but it would be horrific to China. A 6% drop in the Chinese GDP in an economy which is already stretched as thin as it can go would be catastrophic.
We win, they loose.
#50 Ah_Yea: I suppose it’s a matter of how you define “sting.” In the event of a trade war with China, they might dump a large chunk of the (?) $900 billion of US Treasury bonds they hold. This would probably cause an immediate devaluation of the dollar, drive up interest rates, reduce the ability of the US to finance it’s debt and basically screw up any immediate chances for a financial recovery in the US.
Of course, if China started a program of selling massive amounts of US bonds, the market would probably collapse and hurt China as much (or more) than the US. So, it’s really in China’s best interests to keep the bonds they hold and, so that the US can continue to buy their products, to buy even more US debt.
So, I don’t worry we’ll be able to more specifically define “sting” in the near future.
This idea that China holding debt is a problem makes no sense. China can’t call in the debt at will. Bonds have specific payment rates. The only problem is if the US continues to issue bonds, which it is doing at record rates, and the Chinese and others refuse to buy them. Again, this is dependent on the US’ budget policies, not China.
There you go, Maricopa. MikeN is right. China can sell it’s US bonds, but just because they are being sold that doesn’t mean they loose any value.
A bond is simply a financial instrument which represents a loan which value is the initial loan amount plus accumulated interest. You can sell/transfer the bond a million times and this value doesn’t change. Not one penny.
And you cannot cash it in until the bond matures.
MikeN is also absolutely correct that the devaluation of the Dollar is due to out of control spending by the US and has very little to do with anything else.
Our credit is stretched too thin already because of the bailouts. We as a country cannot borrow much more without loosing our AAA credit rating, which we cannot afford to do.
Ergo, a trade war with China is both doable, winnable, and in the long term best interest of the US.
How convenient. Considering Saudi Arabia is a devout enemy of Iran, and Saudi Arabia has Chinese-made CSS2 East Wind nuclear missiles hidden in various locations near the restricted area of King Khalid City.
I can see why they would let the evil jews take care of their enemy for them.
Israel should start speaking up and the United States should back them, because both of these countries have nuclear weapons. What they should say is that researching of nuclear weapons is dangerous unless they know what they are doing; if something is done wrong, then there could be a nuclear explosion. Then there is cover if we or the Israelis have to take out Iran’s nuclear program with tactical or even strategic nukes. We’ll just say it was an accident caused by Iranian nuclear scientist who didn’t know what they were doing.
I don’t know Benji. How many accidental low yield nuclear explosions can take place at the same time before someone says: “Hey!”