PASADENA, Calif. – Two new papers based on data from NASA’s Cassini spacecraft scrutinize the complex chemical activity on the surface of Saturn’s moon Titan. While non-biological chemistry offers one possible explanation, some scientists believe these chemical signatures bolster the argument for a primitive, exotic form of life or precursor to life on Titan’s surface. According to one theory put forth by astrobiologists, the signatures fulfill two important conditions necessary for a hypothesized “methane-based life.”
One key finding comes from a paper online now in the journal Icarus that shows hydrogen molecules flowing down through Titan’s atmosphere and disappearing at the surface. Another paper online now in the Journal of Geophysical Research maps hydrocarbons on the Titan surface and finds a lack of acetylene.This lack of acetylene is important because that chemical would likely be the best energy source for a methane-based life on Titan, said Chris McKay, an astrobiologist at NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, Calif., who proposed a set of conditions necessary for this kind of methane-based life on Titan in 2005. One interpretation of the acetylene data is that the hydrocarbon is being consumed as food. But McKay said the flow of hydrogen is even more critical because all of their proposed mechanisms involved the consumption of hydrogen.
Methane based aliens? How did our earthly politicians get there before NASA?
We better start gearing up now, because they are probably dangerous.
“McKay said the flow of hydrogen is even more critical because all of their proposed mechanisms involved the consumption of hydrogen.” Once again the need for Hydrogen for the creation of life.
Here is a great Youtube video “The Origin of Life – Abiogenesis – Interview with Jack Szostak”
Szostak is a Nobel Laurette.
Here’s More
#2 – chris
Too late to prepare. They are dangerous. The politicians here already spew excessive methane.
Wouldn’t a better use of these scientists time be researching the chemistry of the Gulf region right now rather than Titan’s? Politicians and CEO’s are not going to clean this up.
Brings a whole new meaning to Blue Angel.
If these folks want a breath of fresh air, DO I HAVE A FARM for you to SNIFF.
I think its pretty obvious to all the folks at JPL these days. The tritonians are a primitive society of little blue men (green has been done to death) who make rudimentary tools and engage in barbaric religious practices.
You know, much like humans six weeks ago.
I’m going to bet that after tens of billions of dollars and decades of research, we are not going to be any closer to an answer than we are today.
I bet this whole thing is or will become a new NASA cash cow.
After all, it worked for Mars.
“We better start gearing up now, because they are probably dangerous.” – Danger is irrelevant. Following evolutionary principles it is our duty as the species to prepare to exploit them and find ways to use Titan resources for our benefit. No matter how you dislike the fact, that characteristic is one which made us dominant species here as well as the one that will prevent our extinction in contact with any other evolving alien species.
Joseph Campbell quote: “In the progress of every culture there comes a time to realize that the Life is vicious, deal with it or fail”. (Slightly paraphrased from memory). Nature does not support “living in harmony” concept. Someone is always eaten.
The wikipedia article on Titan led me to a new word. Panspermia – the “seeding” of recombinant DNA from Earth to other planets in the solar system, via asteroid impact ejecta. http://j.mp/S5Ffq
ok, here we go:
I, for one, welcome our new methane overlords.
Fffffssttbbtthhfffffffffthhhhhhbbb!
#4 – EvilPoliticians,
Wouldn’t a better use of these scientists time be researching the chemistry of the Gulf region right now rather than Titan’s?
Um … the mission launched in 1997. It really doesn’t cost much to take in the data now that it’s already there. You do know that when you put a probe in space, you can’t return it and get your money back later, right?
But, go ahead. Oppose all scientific research even when it costs nothing. I’m sure an attitude like that will have us racing forward into the 11th century in no time.
Of course, I agree that the spill must be cleaned up. And, I also believe BP should pay for it. However, if we’re looking to save money, how about charging oil companies for the armed escort of the U.S. Navy for every ship out of the gulf. Hell, charge them for the war for oil in the first place.
While you’re at it, close the Export/Import Bank. Restore taxes to a reasonable level on corporations and billionaires. See if we can offload some of the tax burden they are dumping on us with their bailouts back to them.
I’m sure we can find plenty of money after that to fund NASA, which currently takes about a half cent of every tax dollar.
I’d also like to say that I did post the topic on cagematch. But, it was duddits-fairuse who posted the better link, as contained in the post above. See the cagematch topic for details and, IMHO, a discussion taking place at a much higher level than this one has taken (as usual).
http://tinyurl.com/37gtn4z
Smart readers, please go to cagematch. We usually do have much better discussions there than this. I promise.
For example, unless someone’s literally freezing their ass off, it is unlikely that they are farting liquid methane. And, it’s not the methane in farts that even gives it that smell. So, a significant chunk of this thread here is, dare I say it, just noise.
Sargasso, good topic. We’ve been discussing that over on cagematch. C’mon over.
@ MS
“Restore taxes to a reasonable level on corporations and billionaires.”
They do have reasonable taxes on corporations.
It is just any multinational corporation’s US operations just happen to post a loss.
And these same companies are allow to contribute dollars to our politicians.
Now if Johnny Chang, a foreign national, contributes to say, Bill Clinton’s campaign, it is illegal. Remember Chinese what’s his face getting busted for contributing grocery bags of money back in the 1990s?
But if a multinational corporation contributes to a politician, our system says that it is fine.
So we have an incredibly screwed up taxation and political system with dire conflicts of interest.
@ MS #2
Our never ending wars with no exit strategy and no understandable strategic interest any longer cost $700 billion per year.
It is actually higher than Medicare expenses and Social Security expenses (not combined, but individually).
Now I had thought we’d get some “Change you can believe in” to change all that …
Back to the topic …
The argument that scientists should stop studying space due to problems at home, like #4 suggested, is idiotic. There will always be problems at home.
Really on topic: the idea there is primitive life or precursor components on Titan is incredible — like how the word “incredible” means “not believable”.
It is FAR too cold there for anything resembling biological processes to emerge. Yet people are magnetically biased towards the idea of discovering life to ignore common sense obstacles.
HMeyers,
We have some broad agreement on politics. Regarding “change you can believe in”, hey, some people believe that eating a piece of matzoh converts it into the literal body of Christ and that drinking wine turns it into His blood and that a trinity is a monotheistic belief system.
Some people believe that a desert war god reputed to smite people left and right has chosen them as the best people on earth despite years of being the first ones up against the wall whenever times got tough.
Some people believe that a religion that tells people that they will instantly go to paradise if they are killed fighting in a holy war is a religion of peace.
“Change you can believe in”? Is it any less ridiculous?
Obama was not my first choice. I was not expecting much from him. And, I am severely disappointed. That said, I still prefer to have him in office than Palin waiting impatiently for the walking corpse to finally kick the bucket … or shooting him from a helicopter. Let’s not forget the alternative.
Back on the real topic though. We certainly don’t know yet whether the interesting chemical processes being observed are signs of life. However, anyplace that a replicator can form using any source of energy is a place where there can be life as we don’t know it.
The hypothesis here is that a very simple organism or replicator may be consuming acetylene and letting it react with hydrogen to produce the energy for replication.
What does too cold mean?
The temperature on Titan is 94K, plenty warm enough for chemicals to react and to have a liquid medium in which to live (similar to our oceans). So, why do you assert that it is too cold? Too cold for whom?
Are you aware of the extreme environments here on earth in which life exists? Perhaps you should read up a bit on extremophiles. It sounds as if you are knowledgeable on some subjects, but not really this one. I’d suggest a quick read of the wikipedia page on earth’s extremophiles.
http://tinyurl.com/o9deu
Here are some types of creatures on earth that you may be unaware of, though the wiki page lists many more.
Hyperthermophile
An organism that can thrive at temperatures between 80–122 °C, such as those found in hydrothermal systems
Hypolith
An organism that lives underneath rocks in cold deserts
Psychrophile/Cryophile
An organism that grows better at temperatures of 15 °C or lower; common in cold soils, permafrost, polar ice, cold ocean water, and in or under alpine snowpack
Examples
Microbial life lives in the liquid asphalt lake Pitch Lake. Research indicates that extremophiles inhabit the asphalt lake in populations ranging between 106 to 107 cells/gram.
#12 – Misanthropic Scott
I was not suggesting hitting the self destruct button on the probe and canceling all other missions so we head back to the 11th century.
Instead, the data can be stored for later reference while we deal with the more urgent task at hand. It’s called prioritization and I am sure the NASA scientists who are analyzing ecosystems on other worlds might have some knowledge to contribute here.
#17 EvilPoliticians,
I was not suggesting hitting the self destruct button on the probe and canceling all other missions so we head back to the 11th century.
Instead, the data can be stored for later reference while we deal with the more urgent task at hand. It’s called prioritization and I am sure the NASA scientists who are analyzing ecosystems on other worlds might have some knowledge to contribute here.
I’m confused by this response. Are you then convinced that humans are interchangeable parts?
If so, have you taken a leave of absence from your own job to design and implement a solution to the spill?
Or, do you believe the scientists in NASA’s space program have some particularly relevant experience that would contribute to an oil spill cleanup?
Or, do you think that anyone on a public payroll should be doing their part to clean up the spill?
In reality though, the spill is all of ours.
All of us who drive cars, use plastic, eat non-organic food (fertilized by oil and natural gas), buy any goods transported via oil power, heat our homes with oil, etc., are all causes of the spill. So, perhaps each and every one of us should be out there skimming oil off the ocean.
I’ll go inflate my canoe. Want to take the front seat and come skim oil with me?
#19 Ackackack ack ack ack ackackack. (Is it laughter or Morse code?)
No mention of Kurt Vonnegut? I’m disappointed.
@ MS
re: Supercold
Look at the types of molecules that are liquid or gas at those temperatures. They are simple and light Bohr gases with limited interaction with other molecules (which is why they are liquid at that temperature).
Any kind of life is going to need things like cell membranes or walls or a DNA type of equivalent or enzymes.
Even if such can productively be produced and methane act as a solvent the way water or ammonia could (highly doubtful), the chemical reaction rate due to the lack of energy is going to atrociously slow.
And the thick Titan atmosphere is going to block ultraviolet and other ionizing radiation that works as a randomizing factor.
Even if something resembling life or life precursors could exist at that temperature (doubtful), the reaction rate would be so slow due to the chemical reaction rate as to require more than the life of a star to get anything productive done.
re: Extremophiles … yeah we find them in the cold .. with a microscope. There is a reason for that. They exist in low quantities and are barely detectable. Especially the freezing cold weather extremophiles.
#24 – HMeyers,
Life found with a microscope is exactly what we’re looking for on Titan. Why would finding such life, if we find any, not be extremely exciting? This would be the first off-planet life ever found. It would be a truly thrilling discovery to find life of any kind using whatever chemical processes are available. It would be a second sample of life. It would open the possibilities of what other life might be like to the realm of science rather than science fiction.
you should all build model airplanes. and if you think you know how politics plays into life on mars… you really need a hobby. Whats all that crap about the oil spill? Bunch of losers, get a real life.