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How can these other Arab countries be taken seriously when they call for the destruction of Israel, won’t recognize Israel as a separate country, etc?
Pffft, she’s Lebanese and probably about to check out so she decided to cash in her celebrity status and leave with a bang.
Israel rightly belongs to the Israeli’s and the Gaza Strip is what it is for fucking around with Israel, same for Golan Heights.
Muslim tough lesson : Don’t fuck with Israel.
Helen Yeah! Israel can take and hold whatever land they can, but why do we have to pay for it?
What gets me about mideast stuff is that a land dispute is allowed to fester for 50 years. Its like a battle in slow motion.
Here I am disgusted with the stupidity that the leftists have been suckered into one side.
Well done Hamas, you have been winning hands down. Complete moral victory at the expense of the palestinians, who were always pawns.
I admit it looks like the Zionists are complete idiots in their tactics. Maybe they have a serious nervous disorder caused by that certain Iran threat over the horizon. What nation wouldn’t.
Holocaust part two coming up?
British asked the previous Mufti to step down so that a Hitler fan could occupy his place. Just so that Zionists start selling a new form of prejudice – that of Arabs and Muslims.
Let’s discuss gun control and abortion next.
#55 GregAllen
I am absolutely correct in saying that the conservatives have been gunning for Helen Thomas for decades. They hate her as much as Dan Rather. She’s an unrepentend old-school liberal and it drives them crazy.
Sure, I’ll take your word for this. My point was that in the last few years, it has been the opposite. She drives Gibbs and Obama crazy, and I have heard praise from of her from conservatives recently. I had seen her before but don’t remember anything significant about her until she but the smackdown on Obama for playing politics with press access.
But back to your original point about conservatives being able to get away with this stuff – Again, I think you are comparing apples to oranges. Rush and Glenn Beck can get away with being controversial because they are commentators, and more importantly they basically own their own enterprise. If you want to be a serious news reporter, you are held to a different standard if you want to be taken seriously. You can’t harp on a conspiracy theory for months and then fall for a fake document that even conservative bloggers can tell is a fraud and still expect people to believe you are still impartial. Unfortunately for your comparison, liberals own the print and TV news media, which is supposed to be unbiased, while conservatives own the opinion space on talk radio and Fox News. But I doubt you would ever hear anything so prejudice sounding even from someone like Michael Savage.
For a better comparison, look at conservative politicians. Take Trent Lott for example. He ended up having to resign for attempting to praise Strom Thurmond on his 100th birthday celebration, while the Robert Byrd, a former KKK member was an active Democratic Senator. Conservative politicians can’t get away with much because the press is run by liberals. However, the liberal reporters have to at least appear legit because at the end of the day they work for a corporation – not themselves. Do you think NBC or Fox News are going to let their members of the press corps behave like Keith Olbermann or Bill O’Rielly?
#17 – So morals and ethics are irrelevant? Then welcome to hell.
Quoting #48:
This woman is a hero. She spoke FREEly in our FREE country where men and women have died fighting for our FREEdom, saying exactly how she FREEly feels, and immediately the Nazi’s in journalism get upset, condemn her, and put her speech in the gas chamber. This is classic!!!!!!!!! A very great moment in history.
Bobbo, you nailed it again.
Excellent summation: “I guess I will just invite all my enemies back into my country, … and hope for the best…”
What is completely mind-boggling are those people who take that suggestion seriously.
I don’t get it. I have realized I don’t get it because there is nothing to “get”.
It’s just pure insanity. Wishing the destruction of an entire culture/race/people based on nothing but perception and prejudice.
To go a little further.
For most of us, observing the Israel – Palestinian conflict is like being armchair quarterbacks watching the Superbowl. Let’s see which team wins!
For Israelis, it’s life or death. History has shown them time and again that they cannot trust any country to keep them safe, they cannot trust any people to shelter them. They certainly cannot trust the UN or the international community!
They are on their own, and we put them there.
We, the international community, is ultimately responsible for this mess.
Marc (& others).
I agree with your point about freedom of speech. I always thought Helen was Jewish (Semitic not European) but it turns out she is Lebanese (also Semitic by the way). When I heard about her comments I knew some people would be offended but thought she would be alright because she is Jewish (which she isn’t), when I looked her up and learned she was not it became obvious she would not be allowed an opinion on the matter.
On the substance of her comments, maybe they could safely ‘go back’ know, but like vast numbers of people, most of them were never there in the first place. Most Israelis (and European (including Spanish) / African / Asian (including ‘Native’) people from the Americas, Australia, Europe, Asia and Africa) were born there, so the idea of ‘going back’ is ridiculous.
People need to be safe and have the right to fight for it. I won’t go back to Belfast because I (personally) was never from there in the first place. I suspect you do not want to go back to wherever your ancestors are from either (and you shouldn’t have too). The same applies to Israelis (i.e. Jew, African, European & Palestinian).
Regardless, I would rather know everyone’s opinion, that way you can assess your situation better (e.g. if everyone hated me and wanted me dead, I would rather know in advance of the mob banging at my door). Helen or anyone else should feel free to offer their opinion regardless of other’s sensitivities.
Some Israeli do things that I would consider ethnic cleansing (checked the map lately?) and some Palestinians do themselves no favours by committing atrocities that let Israel play the victim even when it isn’t, but ‘go home’ is not a solution and not an option, and is the sort of idea that could lead to much more carnage if anyone tried to enforce it.
P.S. Many Israelis and Palestinians are just trying to get on with their lives (may they find peace, love, happiness & forgiveness).
P.P.S If we all went back to our ancestral homes Africa would be a very crowded place.
Obama’s looking for “whose ass to kick”. Maybe he meant that jewish-hating Helen Thomas?
It’s hard to know whether to wade in on these discussions as a Zionist occupying Jew who currently occupies a rather small apartment in hideously over-occupied Tel Aviv. I only moved to Israel last year, fleeing London.
I’m grateful that Helen Thomas expressed her views and was free to. I would much rather be able to distinguish those who hate me for an accident of my birth (my race is Jewish) from those who will hate the views and opinions I hold. The first group (Helen’s) I abhor, the second I respectfully disagree with and will do my best to persuade why they’re wrong.
As to the history surrounding the establishment of Israel: it’s reasonably well documented but littered with revisionist lies of those with wildly divergent views. No point re-hashing it here except to say that denying some connection between a tiny Jewish RACE and this land of Israel takes a major act of internal self deception. That Israel wasn’t a particularly developed or pleasant place before Jewish immigration started in the late 1800’s is also beyond most reasonable doubt.
What is not in any question is what happened to thousands of Jews who left the Displaced Persons camps (run by the Allies) and tried to follow Helen’s advice and go home to Poland and Germany (and other places). They too were killed. Yes, after the war had ended, Jews trying to go home were slaughtered by locals scared of loosing stolen homes and businesses. Read about in the Washington Post 8th June if you’re interested.
In the end Jews will always be persecuted and there is something that the collective Jewish mind (that’s such a strange expression: 2 Jews in a room means 3 divergent opinions) has learned: never again rely on the protection of others.
Brian Of London (much as Jesus is no longer IN Nazareth, I am no longer IN London 🙂 I’m a new immigrant living in Tel Aviv!)
When does she start her own blog? I bet that she would be the first blogger to get press credentials for the White House.
#71–just you==yes, you have it exactly.
#77–brian==thanks for contributing. I think you have a lot more to say but understand the limits of the forum. I respect the effort it takes to “broadly generalize” to avoid the quibbling. So, seriously, what do you think: Is too much of Israeli’s current problems/continuing conflict actually caused by itself in being too moral with its “death to Israel” enemies? If from the start they had kept land they conquered, like everyone else in history, would the attacks on them more likely end? The saying goes that the only thing you find in the middle of the road is a yellow line and dead skunks.
Any nation of people that desires a home state should be able to have one. The problem is not that Jewish people have a home state, the problem is that it’s THERE. You have two major religions treating the same piece of ground as theirs, as sacred, as something worth dying for. Does anyone imagine that this is going to end well?
No “2-state solution” will do when both states are hell-bent on owning Jerusalem and excluding the other “state” entirely. Any other considerations such as Gaza are mere details, rungs on a ladder to Armageddon.
brian–so what are you saying? That when two groups of people both want to occupy the same land that the one that will ultimately hold it will do so by force? Both sides claim morality, history, and the will of god but only the willingness and ability to wield force will determine the outcome.
Look around the world. All countries are formed by displacing the natives. All natives want their land back under some color of moral claim.
As I look around, the countries that were the most vicious in their land grabs, ie–killed off all the natives, are now living with the greatest peace and stability. Those nations that took half measures or left anyone alive are living with a constant disruption.
Too many people don’t know what it takes to make an omelet, or to face up to the consequences of their actions.
Silly Hoomans.
I’ve heard it said (and seen it written) that most of the Jews in Israel are of Eastern European or Asian origin and not related genetically to the first Jews, and that the so-called Palestinians are closer to the Biblical Jews than the others. I’ve also read that these darker-skinned Jews are looked down upon in Israel and form a lower caste. Maybe this is what she refers to? I also think everybody in the Middle East sucks, both sides, left and right, and I’m sick to death of the murders (by both sides) and the fighting and all that. I have better things to do. Out.
# 12 bobbo, this is really bad form said, on June 7th, 2010 at 2:53 pm
#8–Mark Perkel==is that what you would really like to see? Such “ideas” fall apart immediately and are again pure nonsense. Way to support your initial nonsense. At least you are being consistent.
Well, Bobbo, once again you fail to recognize sarcastic humor when you read it.
And I don’t think in words, I think in concepts and images, regardless of the language I’m about to use. Thinking in words just slows me down. Do you move your lips when you read? No. Ah, well, think however you like, whatever works.
Back on topic, I’m not one bit unhappy that Helen Thomas resigned. Her ideas and attitude never appealed to me at all.
Good Morning Bubba–you say Perkel is being sarcastic eh? Very poor sarcasm. How do you tell sarcasm from any other variety of comment?
And not being sarcastic: you and I and everyone else think in words. Beyond that its emotion and feelings, but you sound sarcastic. A nice middle ground of ambiguity where very little thinking goes on at all.
Helen had her good days–about 3 times a year.
My favorite quote I heard is that Israel should seize the Rachel Corrie (the ship that is trying to break the blockade) and scrap it to use the metal to make bulldozers. I endorse that view.
Helen Thomas has the same view point of Hamas which is Israel has no right to exist. Israel has a right to protect itself against aggressors. That includes making sure no one gives Hamas the ingredients for making rockets and mortars to shoot at their citizens.
Israel has shown remarkable restraint in dealing with these terrorists. How many other governments would have shown such restraint? Would the United State have blockaded a country like (let’s say) Cuba if they were lobbing missiles against US targets? Oh wait.
If Hamas and the rest of the terrorists would leave Israel alone, the Palestinians would not face the hardships they face. Everyone with a brain bigger than a pea knows this.
If the only way Jews can live in Palestine is by forming a fascist state, then they need to leave.
Zionism = Jewish fascism
–She was spot on in her opinion
I’d say the White House JUMPED on this opportunity to get her out of the WH press core.
Eradication of independent, outspoken critical thinkers is the #1 priority of the current administration, (and apparently, most of congress) -and she was just “too close” for comfort.
Nobody should be fired or coerced into leaving their job for something they said, -Ever
If she writes a book about all the BS that she had to put up with over the years, -it will no doubt be a #1 seller for decades…
Helen, you will be missed.
-Best of luck to you.
-s
ps..
Is it safe to assume the old nursery rhyme “sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never harm me” has been banished from the “collective mind” as well?
A few observations from the nutcase at the fringe. Israel is not the result of some generous gift. It is the result of people like David Ben Gurion. Regardless of what the international community would have preferred, they would have returned to retake the homeland. They established themselves, and now it’s up to the international community to remind them to respect basic human rights. Helen Thomas was ready to retire, and I suspect she just wanted to go out with a bang. Maybe get some attention for those palestinians who are guilty of nothing more than being palestinians, yet suffer an unjust persecution. Either that or she’s getting a little senile.
#88 “palestinians who are guilty of nothing more than being palestinians”
Palestinians are in the situation they are in because they shot missiles at the Israelis. Don’t shoot missiles at your neighbors if you don’t want them to blockade your shipping.
The should scrap the Rachel Corrie and use the metal to make more bulldozers.
And as usual readers of the New York Times did not find about about this story until after she resigned.
Perhaps Helen will change her mind when she learns that the Koran says Israel belongs to the Jews?
#89
So you think all palestinians are terrorists? and I see you’re dubious about the ‘terrorists’ motives. You really think this all began from a couple of missles? What’s been going on in Gaza is known as genocide pure and simple but you go ahead and justify it any way you want.
How bitterly ironic that the Israelis have a Palestinian Question, for which they need some kind of Final Solution.
amaramadingdong–well done. More than make a moral equivalency, you reverse the polarity. From the founding and growth of Israel, who has been genociding whom?
Its a famous saying now, do you disagree with it: “If the Palestinians laid down their weapons today, there would be peace tomorrow. If the Israeli’s laid down their weapons today, they would be gone by tomorrow.” or somtin’ like dat.
The Jews occupied Israel. The Palestinians left thinking all those Arabs would surely kick them out and annihilate the Jews. But it didn’t happen and now the Palestinians want to regain by “humanistic appeals” what they could not regain by war.
Your position is so devoid of history and common human reality.
Interesting you pull even to Perkel on this one–or are you being sarcastic? Seems I can never tell.