The Foxconn factory in the southern Chinese boom town of Shenzhen is so vast that walking around its outer perimeter takes two hours. Its workers turn out components that are supplied to big Western electronics brands including Nokia, Hewlett-Packard and Dell. And it is here that most of the parts for Apple’s iPhone, and the much-awaited iPad, which goes on sale in the UK this week, are manufactured.
Yesterday, Li Hai, a 19-year-old employee of the firm, jumped from the top of the building in Shenzhen to his death. It brought the number of suspected suicides at the factory this year to 10. There have been another two attempted suicides.
All of the deaths have been of youngsters between 18 and 25 years old. Li Hai had only been working at the plant for 42 days. The incidents have prompted intense soul-searching in China, about conditions in its factories and the social cost of breakneck economic development.
If this was a Nike factory or a place associated with Kathy Lee Gifford, the media would be all over it. But Dell? Apple? Steve Jobs? Off limits.
“He fell”
Their suicide rate is still lower than the rate in the continental United States. Of course, nobody likes to talk about that either.
better late than never on the news so meh…
“The incidents have prompted intense soul-searching in China, about conditions in its factories and the social cost of breakneck economic development.”
Soul-searching? No. This is nothing new. If they have to soul search for things such as this, China’s population would all be soul searching now, every day.
But as you pointed out, the sheeps could care less because it is Apple, it is Dell, etc. 95% of the factory in China has bad to horrible working conditions and I’m not even referring to sweat shops! Our CMs (contract manufacturer) claim to be world class but they’re so inexperience and so pathetic it’s not even funny. The same false marketing they put in their products is the same attitude they have in their business. Sure, they are hard working but they are hard working to do the WRONG things most of the time. I don’t even want to get into Quality topics as most QEs (I think all so far) absolutely have no clue about the area.
But it’s not to say there are people that are trying, it’s just that they’re in China and they’re not going to get anywhere speaking out. Your job can be replace in a second. Think about that. 🙂
Just like in the 90s where the best Air Jordans are made with little, underage hands. The best Apple products are made with young, nimble fingers ’cause old people and white folk have fingers too meaty for those badly designed pieces of crap.
Gosh, isn’t raw, unfettered capitalism great? It’s a Libertarian paradise over there! If only we could get some of that here. Instead we have this burdensome government regulation requiring that workers be treated like human beings.
Right, libertarians? Right? Come on, preach it! 🙂
What? Suicide is a valid lifestyle choice. It should be encouraged.
John, please point this out to leo next time you do twit. I’ve been a fan of his for years, but if I have to hear about another apple product, especially the iPad, I’m going to scream.
Actaully British news seems to have been covering this story fairly well theres been stuff on the plant on the bbc most days this week its been rather interesting.
The point that the overal suicide rate is still lower then that the US made by #3 is rather dense though as we are talking out of thousands rather then millions of people.
Yeah, let’s all attack Apple before they have a chance to comment or react.
But the Taiwanese owners now face a major problem…
Wow, times have changed… Taiwan and the mainland used to be mortal enemies… never would have thought that Taiwanese would own a major plant in China…
The kid “Li Hai had only been working at the plant for 42 days.” There is some issue other than bad working conditions at play there.
3, Theone,
It’s new if the soul-searching occurs in an atheistic society.
5, Phydeau,
China is a communist country. DUH! China’s recent economic success is due to them adopting SOME capitalistic ideas. That doesn’t make turn them into an unfettered capitalistic society.
What’s worse is you feel government was the root cause of this person’s suicide. Typical liberal. You don’t believe in personal responsibility. No wonder why you guys want a nanny state.
10, Phydeau,
That’s because you don’t understand what you just read nor the difference between the country of Taiwan and a couple of people who happen to be Taiwanese. You’re about as bad as other liberals who make no distinction between immigration and ILLEGAL immigration. You think the two are the one and the same.
Odds are those Taiwanese owners are just looking to make some money and could care less about the geopolitical issues between Taiwan and China. Did the article say they are Taiwanese patriots? Or did you just assume that they were like other idiots who think that just because someone is an American you support the person in White House even if you politically oppose them. I hope you’re not that naive.
Guyver, as blustery as he is ignorant. Good job there sport. Maybe you might become enlightened by reading the history of the enmity between Taiwan and mainland China, but I doubt it.
China is a communist country. DUH! China’s recent economic success is due to them adopting SOME capitalistic ideas. That doesn’t make turn them into an unfettered capitalistic society.
Being new at capitalism, they’re indulging in the excesses that afflicted America during the times of robber baron capitalism, which we thankfully limited. And which Libertarians yearn to tear down. Look at China, grasshopper… that’s what Libertarians want the U.S. to look like: Huge corporations without any meaningful government oversight, employees like slaves.
What’s worse is you feel government was the root cause of this person’s suicide. Typical liberal. You don’t believe in personal responsibility. No wonder why you guys want a nanny state.
Wow, project much there sport? Try reading. I didn’t say it was the government’s fault. Whatta wingnut. 🙂
This is the new “shark bites person” story. There are hundreds of thousands of people who work there. It would be a miracle if some of them didn’t have mental health issues. That isn’t to say that the working conditions at the factory may be significantly worse than in the west but this is being blown a bit out of proportion.
China is more or less comminuist in name only. In alot of ways they are out capitalism-ing us.
China has very little in the way of environmental or health and safety regulations. What they do have is often un or under enforced. Its a very no regs, do whats profitable environment.
How was Phydeau wrong except semantically? You attack a definition and miss the point.
I suspect to some it was wrong because Phydeau the dirty librul said it.
Yes, where is the undercover investigators going into this factory and finding out what the problem is? Could Apple be behind the problems? Are they putting so much pressure on the company to produce product that these workers are virtually imprisoned as slaves? I have heard some rumors of such.
15, Phydeau,
You really are naive. Taiwanese are ethnically Chinese. You did learn that in grade school right? There are some Taiwanese who do yearn to be part of China. The Taiwanese government has no desire to be part of China. China believes Taiwan never seceded from China. Your lapse in common sense is that you somehow associate someone’s ethnicity with their country’s political posture. That’s about as dumb as my saying you were a George Bush and the War on Terror supporter simply because you’re an American. Don’t be stupid.
They’re not “being new at Capitalism.” Capitalism and Communism are inherently not compatible with each other. They’re doing just enough so as not to have deep conflicts with Communism.
Since you seem to think you know a bit about China, you should also know that Mao Zedong simplified the Chinese alphabet so as to reduce the illiteracy rate in China…. but the ulterior motive was to prohibit Chinese citizens from being able to read classical Chinese texts. Why? Because classical Chinese literature is not compatible with Communist doctrine. That’s like you or I picking up something written in English 100 years ago and not even being able to read the words written.
No, you’re a very confused kid who thinks China is a capitalistic society. They’re not. Don’t kid yourself. Just because you learned from a liberal professor over how great Mao Zedong was, they neglected to tell you that he killed more people than Hitler and Stalin combined.
Proof you don’t even know what Communism is or that it philosophically is a polar opposite of Libertarianism. That’s about as intelligent as saying liberals and conservatives think alike. Don’t be stupid.
Our government is based off of capitalism. To suggest that our government and a communist government (who borrows some facets to capitalism) are somehow similar is moronic.
When you talk of capitalism, you’re implying our government. But you wouldn’t know that since you think Communism and Libertarianism are one in the same. But like I said, you liberals don’t make distinctions from polar opposites. That’s profoundly ignorant.
17, TCC3,
They’re not out-capitalizing us…. yet. But the liberals in this country want to push us towards that.
I see the point you’re trying to make and it ALMOST makes sense. China is controlled by a group of families. Outside of that, the government has all the rights while personal liberties are pushed aside. You do realize that China is frequently criticized for human rights violations? A Libertarian society wouldn’t have human rights violations other than those that are self-inflicted.
The “lack” of regulations in China are due to a total disregard of personal safety / liberties. It’s not because of some Capitalistic or Libertarian notion.
What the Chinese government does, they do by sheer force that they push onto the populous. That is not a Libertarian philosophy whatsoever. Libertarians want self-governance and as-required government. The “as required” part is what splits up many Libertarians into different camps because there never seems to be any consensus over what is “as required”.
Phydeau clearly doesn’t understand China is first and foremost a communist country. Phydeau also doesn’t understand that Libertarians want maximum personal liberties but not at the expense of someone else. Communists DO NOT think this way.
There are more than one reasons for lack of regulations. Some are for self-governance reasons while others clearly are not.
Phydeau makes no distinction and at best is naive. He’s no different than how many liberals consider legislation against ILLEGAL immigration to be an attack on all immigrants. Just because there is a lack of regulation, Phydeau automatically assumes it’s has a Libertarian basis.
Real Libertarians don’t consider corporations, which are creations of and exist only under the protection and preference of the government, to be the essential or even primary force behind capitalism. Their (corporations) limited liability is at odds with the basic principals responsibility for one’s actions.
China as it now exists is fascist, just like the good old USA.
What us the suicide rate in China?
Is the rate per 1,000 higher than any other company?
Is it higher than the population as a whole?
Establish the base line before you decide there is a problem.
China is still formally pretty commie, but it is also incredibly corrupt. There is an informal black market economy that involves the entire political system and the private sector (not unlike the early days in the US).
This double paradigm sort of allows them to claim to be a successful commie state while operating a sort of no holds barred capitalism underneath.
Many Foxconn line assembly workers are kids from the country side, away from home and families for the very first time and completely lonely and unhappy. Then they suffer Foxconn’s production management who impose restrictions on movement, sleep, eating and social interaction, demanding production levels or they cut salaries and holding assembly line workers financially accountable for management screwups. Apple went from a 100% US union labor company to a “design house” with production off shore. At that time, I stopped buying Apple for my home. That’s how I roll.
China is not communistic any more than the U.S. is capitalistic, in other words, only somewhat. In both places, those with the money rule. An oligarchy. I agree with spsffan in #21 about that — rule by corporations is fascism, essentially.
I don’t know who you’re talking to Guyver, I suspect the libruls in your mind, but it’s fun watching. 🙂
lol tcc3, I’m a dirty, dirty librul! 🙂
Whoops forgot this part… what Guyver and other libertarians don’t see is that by limiting government regulation, the inevitable result is large and lawless corporations. They claim they don’t like that, but history has proven time and again that’s exactly what happens.
Clueless libertarians.
It’s interesting to read your comments. I suppose most of you have not lived or been to China/Shenzhen.
A lot of the comments are pretty close to reality but I think the main problem is the workforce is very young and not prepared for the environment they find themselves in.
Once they realize that this ‘is it’. And it is probably not going to change much in the future. There is only ‘one way out’.
I don’t know what the answer is, they need the jobs, and they need hope that things will get better.
We can complain all we want but it’s their country.
I could have sworn my comment and sarcasm was understandable but apparently not.
Between Bobbo, Pedro and now Guyver I don’t know who’ll win the Darwin award. Honestly, the lack of reading comprehension is beyond my understanding here at DU.
“Get off my lawn you damn kids…”
Suicide is sad, but there’s not yet a cause-and-effect relationship in the working conditions.
OTOH, how about mercury poisoning in one of the Chinese factories that produces all those mandated CF bulbs? I’ve put that as my website just in case the link doesn’t work in the posting.
25, Phydeau,
To an extreme (if this is your viewpoint) only the U.S. is “ruled” by corporations. Don’t kid yourself into thinking corporations have that kind of power in China.
Just because a corporation is large doesn’t make them inherently “evil” as you want to believe. It could be large (dare I say it) because they provide a good or service that customers want.
As for a lawless corporation, who EXACTLY defends that? Fundamentally speaking, Libertarianism is about maximum liberties but not at the expense of others. We just don’t obsess over others who are more successful than us and accuse successful people as being inherently “evil”.
27, Bill,
This is true. If the Liberals here were truly worried about jobs in this country and about the lack of welfare others suffer in other countries for doing business with our corporations, we can always make tax friendly policies to encourage multi-national corporations to bring their business to the U.S. However, the liberals get their panties in a bunch and feel that this is corporate welfare all while their brethren suffer with unemployment or lower pay. They believe the solution is taxing the hell out of successful people / corporations all while hoping their brethren are gainfully employed by a poor person who couldn’t afford them.
28, Theone,
I could have sworn it was obvious I was quoting you out of context because I was just trying to embellish on the irony of soul-searching in a country whose government is atheist. Apparently not.
You’re not as smart as you think you are. But I understand that the liberal trait is to obsess over thinking highly of themselves. This turns into a desire of wanting to show others how smart you picture yourself.
29, JBellies,
You make a good point. However since the liberals feel poisoning lands with mercury is a lesser evil than the “scientific consensus” of man-made global warming due to CO2, the liberals would rather err on a sure thing (mercury) rather than something that has any empirical proof. Tragic isn’t it?
People die in a factory in Communist China, and somehow Phydeau thinks that shows that libertarians are stupid. What ??? Then you come back and use the reasoning that since China is not ‘truly’ communist, it somehow proves libertarianism is bad because the factory has a lack of regulation.
Yes, it is true that China does not rule with the ‘ideals’ of communism, but what you see in China is the reality of communism. Ideals are irrelevant because communism by nature breeds an insane level of corruption, and you will get this within months of a country becoming communist. So even though it doesn’t fit what your textbook definition of communism is, it IS the reality of communism. And this is exactly what you will see and have seen in every communist country throughout history. And how did they get to this pathetic point? By the people believing the government would solve all of their problems by controlling every facet of the economy. (Which, in the case of China, drove all the educated people out of the mainland to Taiwan)
Libertarians believe in as few rules as possible, but not less. Communist dictators believe in as much control (rules) as possible, unless it doesn’t benefit the ruling class, in which case they want no rules at all. You just cannot compare these two cases. And you cannot even begin to compare Communist China, where the government decides where you live and work, to a Capitalist country, where you can switch jobs and move as you please, and vote both at the ballet box and with your wallet.