Treat prisoners like human beings? Bizarre! You’ll always have a few who don’t want to change, but for the rest, isn’t it better to try to help them rather than warehouse them with the expectation of failure? Or is our current system of retribution and punishment that only leads to more crime when they get out the only way?
Ten years and 1.5 billion Norwegian kroner ($252 million) in the making, [Halden prison] is spread over 75 acres (30 hectares) of gently sloping forest in southeastern Norway. The facility boasts amenities like a sound studio, jogging trails and a freestanding two-bedroom house where inmates can host their families during overnight visits. Unlike many American prisons, the air isn’t tinged with the smell of sweat and urine. Instead, the scent of orange sorbet emanates from the “kitchen laboratory” where inmates take cooking courses. “In the Norwegian prison system, there’s a focus on human rights and respect,” says Are Hoidal, the prison’s governor. “We don’t see any of this as unusual.”
Halden, Norway’s second largest prison, with a capacity of 252 inmates, opened on April 8. It embodies the guiding principles of the country’s penal system: that repressive prisons do not work and that treating prisoners humanely boosts their chances of reintegrating into society. “When they arrive, many of them are in bad shape,” Hoidal says, noting that Halden houses drug dealers, murderers and rapists, among others. “We want to build them up, give them confidence through education and work and have them leave as better people.” Countries track recidivism rates differently, but even an imperfect comparison suggests the Norwegian model works. Within two years of their release, 20% of Norway’s prisoners end up back in jail. In the U.K. and the U.S., the figure hovers between 50% and 60%.
so let me get this straight. if i murder someone and torture them, i will end up in a facility that will treat me kindly, educate me, and build my confidence?
2 years of data is very skewed. i theorize that this program simply prolongs their mental stability.
Posting this article is just waving the red cape in front of the wingnuts.
Mitigating the problem of recidivism, and the social problems that lead to incarceration would take careful study, long term planning, and followup funding.
I’m sure the US Congress is up to that task. What is the texting thingy for sarcasm? Somebody please slap one on this post.
This would not work in America. America’s prison system is a FOR PROFIT ENTERPISE. If recidivism rates dropped profits drop and when an American companies profits drop thats bad for America as a whole.
-Better for current prisoners to help them.
-Worse for the system acting as a deterrent.
The answer depends on your priority.
“Within two years of their release, 20% of Norway’s prisoners end up back in jail.”
… um… the prison opened April 1st, which I think is a fitting date. Give it 2 years and then reveal the re-offenders statistic for Halden prison as compared to the other conventional prisons.
I think I need a holiday. What’s the minimum crime to get in?
#6 “… um… the prison opened April 1st, which I think is a fitting date. Give it 2 years and then reveal the re-offenders statistic for Halden prison as compared to the other conventional prisons.”
…just because the prison is new does not mean that the methods are untested – the statistics are there already. It *is* a conventional prison around these parts.
The most frightening thing I saw in Norway, was that everyone obeyed the speed limit. OK, there still were a few crazies who were speeding, but my hairs stood on end. Creepy stuff.
Norway’s second largest prison, with a capacity of 252 inmates
Google U.S. prison statistics. I got 40% white 42% black the rest hispanic. Anybody covering vanessa coleman trial at wate.com? Ever hear of Channon Christian and Chris Newsom? Or the black murderer rate being seven times higher than the white rate? If we were Norwegians in Norway we could have prisons like this. But not here in the multikult The KWA.
You asked for if there was another option. Joe Arpaio Sheriff of Maricopa County. Joe lets the prisoners learn new productive jobs and have a very low recidivism rate.
#8 Speeding ticket fines must be astronomical in Norway. I mean, there’s gotta be some deterrent at work there, and it certainly isn’t the threat of prison !
I’m guessing that speed limits are set more reasonably than is typical here. I could be wrong, but in general, limits are set 10-15 mph too low here in the USA. Note that they are supposed to be limits, not recommended speeds.
I also have to ask what the laws in Norway are on things like drug use and prostitution. Could it be that people actually respect the law in Norway?
Or, are they just ‘nice’?
Bloody vikings!
A little off topic, but did you know that a disproportionate number of very ignorant people are named Samantha? I’m not saying that every Samantha is extremely ignorant, but wouldn’t it be nice if there weren’t any people by that name in the GOUSA?
I wonder how many people are named Samantha in Norway?
The average incarcerated felon in Norway has a better health, medical and retirement plan than the average honest hard working middle classed American.
Re#7, Tippis, you are correct, but the reason this prison is in the news is because of its extreme expansion on those methods. We’ll see.
Also the USA and Norway’s economies are completely different. That is likely to have a lot to do with crime rates… especially in lieu of the USA’s bad economy and civil tension. unemployment rate is only 3% in Norway… it’s 10% in the USA.
“The Norwegian economy thrives in the midst of prosperous welfare capitalism that features the best possible combination comprising free market activity and government intervention. Key areas such as the country’s petroleum sector, is controlled by the government.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorance
Ignorance
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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For other uses, see Ignorance (disambiguation).
Search Wiktionary Look up ignorance in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.
Ignorance is where someone or something is uninformed. This should not be confused with being unintelligent, as one’s level of intelligence and level of education or general awareness are not the same. The word “Ignorant” is an adjective describing a person in the state of being unaware. The term may be used specifically (e.g. “One can be an expert in math, and totally ignorant of history.”) or generally (e.g. “an ignorant person.”) — although the second use is used less as a descriptive and more as an imprecise personal insult.
The concept of ignorance has social and legal implications. The legal principle that ignorantia juris non excusat, literally “ignorance of the law is no excuse”, stands for the proposition that the law applies also to those who are unaware of it.
[edit] See also
Are you Aware of u.s. dept of justice bureau of justice statistics?
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/
From what I’ve just read, Norway has some of the lowest speed limits in Europe. And some of the highest fines, payable on the spot. DWI is 0.02% vs US average 0.08%!!!
here is a link
#9: What does this line mean: “But not here in the multikult The KWA.” Looks like your keyboard crapped out.
#13: Sounds like an indictment of the Best Health Care System In The World!©
#15: As I once explained to someone, ignorance is temporary. Stupid, however, is forever.
Just found another good link for speeding fines in Norway. 10% of annual income with a kicker of mandatory 18 days in jail if the speed is deemed excessive.
http://autos.aol.com/article/highest-speeding-fines/
Samnatha, just as the name “Samantha” isn’t the cause of ignorance, a persons race isn’t the cause of their social dysfunction. You have selected one fact from hundreds of more relevant facts, as the cause of high crime in the USA. That’s ignorance Samantha.
Reading the comments above I almost feel proud to be Norwegian…
This particular prison has caused enormous uproar in Norway. Treating criminals serving time better than hard working people as housing goes has not gone down well. The money they spent on this ‘hotel’ is ridiculous. Judging from the media exposure a majority think this i money very badly spent.
That said, a prisoner is an individual with rights, though restrained and confined. A prisoner shall not be subject to torture or abuse by an abusive correctional system. That is f=per definition wrong! There is actually a human rights issue at play even for prisoners. Don’t forget that not everyone in prison are murderers. Hundreds of thousands are inside due to ‘illegal substances’, non-violent people haveing abused their own body and mind are punished. Point is that they at one point in time all are coming back to society. Do you want someone back that is mentally broken and disturbed, or someone that has gained confidence and are motivated to get back into society? A stupid question with an easy answer. And this is the point and where there (seemingly) is a difference between the US and Scandinavian correctional system.
As to speed limits; highways are 110 kmh or about 65 mph. You drive 15-20% above and you are a pedestrian for up to 2 years AND face a fine possibly up to a months gross salary. So, yes – wise to keep the limits + max 10%.
#14 Norway is still not Venezuela but heading in that direction without a self proclaimed lunatic leader taking over. Economically the country is energy and energy related; oil production and metals refineries (until they move out too). It is easy to have a welfare state when you pump money out of the ground, doing nothing. The dumbing of the population is frightening, the educational system is disintegrating while everybody, like it or not, has to do 12 years in school. The unemployment is correctly the official 3 -4 % however, count in all those hidden inside social benefits and the number is really bad +10% at least. On top of that, a relatively expansive immigration adds to the tension, crime rates escalating and safe guarded by a police with a clearing ratio of 5% of the crimes. Norway is a ‘smorgasbord’ for Batlic and Russian crime gangs.
More than 50% of the population is working for the central or local government, while 30% are school children, people on social benefit and retired people, leaving 20% to provide some sort of added value to society.
Just to let you know. Yes – it may seem rosy red on the surface, and in official statistics, but you dig just a little bit and it is rotten to the core. A non-sustainable society sucking on the straw of easy money as in oil… until it stops. then Norway goes back to be the poorest country in Europe as it was in the late 1800s…
But we have nice fjords, terrific skiing, beautiful and fit girls and good beer 🙂 And taxes of course. Yes we love taxes; start with VAT of 25% on everything you buy and then income tax hitting 50% quickly…topping out at about 60%. And toll roads – USD 4 per pass – to go in out of Oslo… And much more….
What a Paradise….
Skeptic–gee whiz. Wasn’t that the name of the good witch on BeWitched from years back? You must be wrong on that average thing. Just as you are wrong about the fact that USA is a melting pot of races separated by a long pernicious history and an influx of foreign cultures. What else did you think she was saying???
Only really stupid people need things spelled out for them–the very function of this blog.
All Hail our Editors. Without their kind guiding hands, we would just be rabble.
252 million dollars to house 252 prisoners. I wonder how much they pay the guards. Or maybe they are too progressive to use guards. Everything on the honor system, maybe? Ahh, the wonders of a country that charges nearly 30% income taxes and then another 25% value added (i.e. sales) tax. I guess they need such high taxes to be the all comforting nanny state. Thank heavens they only have 5 million people to watch out for.
“This would not work in America. America’s prison system is a FOR PROFIT ENTERPISE.”
Agreed. If it wasn’t for state prisons jailing people for non-violent offenses, there would be a lot less money flowing into big labor union slush funds. That’s a dirty little secret about the Democrat Party.
We don’t want to help marginal people get better, find a job…no we want to take half assed wanna be criminals and make them SUPER hardened bad ass criminals. This, plus the fake war on drugs, keeps our “criminal justice system”(tm) flowing in money. How much cash do you think you make from peace vs war…do the math.
Sorry, prison here is just not bad enough. I have a couple of relatives that like to spend time as wards of the state. Believe me, prison is not bad.
If we make prison a literal hellhole then you would see prison rates drop. No medical, dental, and food lets just give them gruel.
I’m sorry if your dumb enough to go in, then I don’t need to pay for A/C, lighting, good food, and an endless supply of legal books to further paralyze the system.
If anything, this should work better than punishment only prisons for the reason that it’s been pretty much proven by psychologists that punishment isn’t as good at teaching as reinforcement is. You can bash em on the head all you want, but it’s not gonna make say, “Hey, this was bad, I’m gonna change my ways to something I don’t even know exists!” They might know a non criminal life exists, but it doesn’t mean they know how to live one.
#26 I’ll do you one better. I think the prisoners should be free. Abolish the prisons!
Apples and oranges comparison. Norway has a tiny immigrant population. Their culture and traditions are clearly defined. That means that amongst themselves they have a lot in common. The USA is the ‘melting pot’ society that isn’t hot enough to melt the new ingredients into itself. So you have many traditional and cultural differences. Once they get in the slam the first thing they have to do is pick a clan based on those differences.
No way would the Norwegian system work in the US.
#25 We have made prisons hellholes. The result: petty criminals go in, hardened and bitter career criminals come out. And commit more crimes. And get sent back to prison. Repeat until the U.S. has the highest incarceration rate in the world. Oh wait, that has already happened. Good job guys.
The right wing nuts got their message from the bibble. “VENGEANCE” is mine, sayeth the frightened little wannabes with their second amendment militias.
We have come so far as a society.