The auto industry seems to be moving towards embracing hybrids and electric vehicles. One needs only look at examples like the 2011 Nissan LEAF and 2011 Chevy Volt, or the the new Chevy Volt MPV5 EV-crossover concept.
However, there’s growing concern that the industry is casting a rather blind eye to what exactly the impact of its leap might be. […] The current third-generation Toyota Prius uses 25 lbs. (11 kg) of expensive rare-earth metals — approximately twice the amount found in a standard vehicle.
That’s a big problem as rare earth metals, known scientifically as lanthanides are almost exclusively controlled by China. Could this stranglehold slow progress of these new vehicles and hasten China’s ascent to the world’s most dominant economy?
[…]
The biggest uses of lanthanides are in the battery pack and electric motor of hybrids and EVs. Bryce believes that lanthanide demand will outpace supply as early as 2013, slowing the industry’s growth and allowing China to raise its resource prices. He states, “There are no significant supplies (of lanthanides) that can come on stream in anything close to the time span the market need.”
The Chinese are the world’s biggest supplier because they have no environmental regulations, hence they can produce these elements far cheaper than the western world can. If China was cut off, western countries would re-open their mines. There’s plenty of rare earth elements to be found in western countries, including the US, Canada and Australia.
Not that I am calling for us to mine using Chinese standards, or lack thereof. If they are willing to poison their own citizens, we can’t do anything about it. As they deplete their resources, prices will go up and we can re-open our strategic mines.
Well if you notice the only company to go all in on this is Tesla. (I say them as I don’t know of any other electric car company that has more than one electric only vehicle in its offering.)
Still, I’ve got hopes for the Model S.
So why didn’t free enterprise and more open markets win this one?
Re#4, qb, I think post #1 answers that question.
#5 So why did Chinese corporations start all this mining? Maybe they have lax regulations but it still costs a bundle and takes years to build an industry like this. For example, in Canada, I know it would probably take close to 10 years and hundreds of millions of dollars to start this industry.
COISES! FOILED AGAIN!
http://bit.ly/US_Military_Supply
“The U.S. once supplied most of the global supply of rare earth elements, and also manufactured rare earth products such as the neodymium magnets. But rare earth processing has largely shifted to China since the 1990s. Even if the U.S. resumes mining its rare earth deposits and begins converting rare earth ore into oxides, it lacks the facilities for converting rare earth oxides into refined metals.
China has set quotas limiting rare earth exports and added on export taxes, despite supplying as much as 97 percent of the world’s rare earth oxides. It even warned in an official plan for 2009-2015 that its own industrial demand might force it to stop exporting entirely.”
Well #4, #1 sounds like “There’s plenty of oil in the USA, all we have to do is Drill, Baby, Drill.” But it is a “Fact” question fairly easy to confirm one way or the other.
Electrics are the way to go WHEN battery technology catches up/leaps forward, so it needs to be part of the mix now so its research can be funded.
I hope the gov doesn’t continue along its anal way by selecting winners and losers as in their selection of corn ethanol which continues to be a disaster.
COMPRESSED AIR CAR is the way to go, but it has no sex appeal. No precious metals, no heavy weight, safe storage.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uVIwropRMME
re: #6 qb, my link in post #7 and also this excerpt might answer your question. I suspect that profit once again encouraged cheap imports.
“New rare earth mines in the U.S., Australia, Canada and South Africa won’t start up until at least 2014, based on industry estimates. The GAO report listed rare earth deposits in states that include California, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Missouri and Utah.
But looking beyond the GAO report reveals that many U.S. deposits lack the “heavy” rare earth elements critical for much of today’s technological innovations. Another cause for concern: Chinese corporations have also begun investing in mining companies that hold certain U.S. deposits.”
Re:*8, Bobbo, I like the idea of compressed air. It still needs electricity to ‘refuel’ though, and we are low on that resource. Their claims of zero emissions fail for that same reason, As well, all the designs tabled so far, burn gas at highway speeds (to heat the air), and the cars won’t work in cold climates for the same reason. These issues might be overcome, but there is going to be an energy expense to do so. They are not pollution-free as claimed.
I have thought about the possibilities before and imagined refueling stations consisting of a single windmill that compresses air rather than creates electricity. Storage tanks would supply air as the wind mill replenished supply. The infrastructure would be cheap to set up, compared to gas stations.
I think natural gas is a good interim solution. It’s clean burning, plentiful and we already have the technology. But alas we have the sexiness problem again.
Pat Buchanan is on Book TV right now. Lots of very good ideas I think.
Skeptic==gosh. Very weak arguing “style.” No where did I say they were perfect. No where did I say they were pollution free.
Every argument you make applies x10 to electric cars. No car fulfills every consumers need–silly to cite cold weather as a disability. In alaska, gas cars don’t work in winter either–need to plug them in to keep the oil hot overnight. So its a limitation not a bar. Folks in Florida don’t care about cold weather operating limitations.
Windmills to compress the air is an excellent idea. Hadn’t even thought of that. Makes the COMPRESSED AIR CAR an even better interim choice if not long term solution for many people–even though the cars don’t go 400 miles between recharges.
re: Bobbo, “No where did I say they were pollution free.”
And I never said that YOU said that did I? Can you understand this sentence?
“Their claims of zero emissions fail for that same reason” If you like I will explain it to you.
re your comment: “Every argument you make applies x10 to electric cars.” Oh really? What is the energy savings difference of burning coal to create electricity to compress air to recharge a cannister in your car, as compared to burning coal to create electricity to recharge your battery?
Re: gas cars don’t work in winter either–need to plug them in to keep the oil hot overnight.”
Not any more. That’s old tech oil you are talking about. besides, your example is flawed once again… a problem you should aspire to correct. Gas engines run fine in cold weather. Oil is not an engine Bobbo.
…too easy. Step it up a notch.
Cripes, I think I’m developing ‘Snarky Bobbo Syndrome’
#13–Skeptic==heh, heh. Are we having fun yet? arguing at the fringes? I just apologized on the left turn thread, do I have a two-fer here?
I could quibble, but on balance, I apologize.
I love notches though, and thats a good thing.
Heh, thanks for the apology… just don’t make it a habit.
I just responded to your other post as well. This must be my lucky day. 🙂 I think I’ll throw away $2 on a Lotto 649.
Even though it must appear to the casual observer as getting a little nasty sometimes, I enjoy our sparring sessions. You really keep me on my toes.
Nasty?
I grew up in my Father’s House. “Good Morning”==”What’s your evidence for that?”
How would you like your skin flailed today? Iron tips or just nettles?
You can’t imagine the progress I’ve made.
Somewhat old news, this has been discussed a few times over the past year or two. The only reason they have most of the market is that they pull the rare earths cheaper since they don’t care about environmental issues.
Give it a few years and poisoned cities and China will suddenly be just as expensive as everyone else; plus the company with big holdings here just has to have enough backing to start up (I believe they said 1-2 billion.) Right now they are holding onto the lands because the market won’t support them mining at the moment.
As prices rice, people will buy less of the car, bringing things into balance. The only problem is if people artificially mandate that other people buy only one type of car.
If you combine highly compressed air with natural gas to heat the air and get even more pressure the mileage is really good at least with ultra light vehicles.
You can expect to park your SUV.
Chinese eCar manufacturer BYD is about to open stores in the Los Angeles area. Far from excluding the USA, they seem very keep to sell them to you. I guess that blows the mil.industrial machine’s BS story for today.
That’s really smart idea. It’s all about rare elements China possesses.. very smart! If it is so, we are in trouble!
So God put our oil under the Ayrabs sand and now puts our heavy metals under the atheists.
Can I complain to Pat Robertson about this?
I’d be willing for some of my tax dollars to go into R&D for electric cars – especially in solving the battery problems.
It would be money very well spent — we could give away the technology to US companies and license it to foreign.
Check this 🙂
Hahaha Bobbo showing his dumbass arguments again by doing left turns LOL.
China’s been acquiring resources everywhere for quite some years now. This isn’t really “news” per say but at least some people are talking about it. I’ll have Africa please!
# 20 deowll:
If you combine highly compressed air with natural gas to heat the air and get even more pressure the mileage is really good at least with ultra light vehicles.
You can expect to park your SUV.
Ooh! I’d buy one! I’d much rather have a Smart car than an SUV anyway.