UPDATE:
Wow! Who could have predicted this?
To make a long story short: this is all reported to be a fake. The photos were reputed to have been taken off site near the Black Sea, but the film footage the Chinese now have was shot on location on Mt. Ararat. In the late summer of 2008 ten Kurdish workers hired by Parasut, the guide used by the Chinese, are said to have planted large wood beams taken from an old structure in the Black Sea area (where the photos were originally taken) at the Mt. Ararat site. In the winter of 2008 a Chinese climber taken by Parasut’s men to the site saw the wood, but couldn’t get inside because of the severe weather conditions. During the summer of 2009 more wood was planted inside a cave at the site.
ORIGINAL STORY:
THE remains of Noah’s Ark have been discovered 13,000ft up a Turkish mountain, it has been claimed. A group of Chinese and Turkish evangelical explorers say they have found wooden remains on Mount Ararat in eastern Turkey. They claim carbon dating proves the relics are 4,800 years old — around the same time the ark was said to be afloat. Yeung Wing-Cheung, from the Noah’s Ark Ministries International research team, said: “It’s not 100 per cent that it is Noah’s Ark, but we think it is 99.9 per cent that this is it.”
He said the structure contained several compartments, some with wooden beams, that they believe were used to house animals.
The group of evangelical archaeologists ruled out an established human settlement on the grounds none have ever been found above 11,000ft in the vicinity, Yeung said. Local Turkish officials will ask the central government in Ankara to apply for UNESCO World Heritage status so the site can be protected while a major archaeological dig is conducted.
The biblical story says that God decided to flood the Earth after seeing how corrupt it was.
Huh, I thought they found that boat long ago.
In case you haven’t noticed… we’re still all in the same boat.
To all good folks who find “new ideas” or even warmed over ones still of interest:
http://wimp.com/mathbooks/ on how math books need to be improved, or on education in general. This seems at least tangential to our math discussion above so I post it. What may be of even more “fun” to music lovers anyway is the “Four Cords” comedy routine on the same page or here:
http://wimp.com/songchords/
I just like the website.
This all began in Noah’s bath tub. He had lots of tiny toy animals and a little wooden boat.
And in other news, The Sun UK discovers that water is wet and that gravity brings us all down to earth. That is, this is not news about Mt. Ararat.
#39 And I thought all along it was Noah’s hot tub. 🙂
A wooden structure is found on a mountain above 11,000 feet and an human establishment is ruled out in favor of a boat.
This type of thinking can be explained by the incest Noah and his family would have had to do in order to re-establish the human race.
It is ARMENIAN mountain
Ain’t mine. Thou couldst distinguish mine from a village.
Hm, “evangelical explorers”… maybe they bring their evidence back to “creation scientists”… 🙂
Are you sure this isn’t Noah Snark?
Just to add to the DNA tracing argument, the patrilineal equivalent is the Y-chromosome. Our Y-chromosome “Adam” is dated to 90,000 to 60,000 years ago. Note that this is thousands of years after our “Eve” common ancestor.
Speaking of geometry.
How big would a boat need to be in order to have seven pair of most animals and one pair of unclean animals?
For the sake of calculation, only the main species need to be included … not all the sub-species. But, I assume you’d need to include space for feed.
How big would the boat be? Is it anything close to the biblical description?
I tried to Google the answer but no luck.
Greg–Benji’s second link explains all that. You don’t need “all” the animals of a given family. I think 80% of the ark was reserved for food. As a kiddie, I recall being told that on the ark, they didn’t need any food. I guess there are competing theories about that, or I was taught by a very funny fellow? Just a few types because in 2-3000 years, all the different species obviously evolved from the stock provided by the Ark.
No conflict there, science and religion are in lockstep about evolution.
A couple of observations.
1) The word ark is used for two very different objects in the old testament. The word seems to be rather generic something similar to container or vessel.
2) I think the Bible speaks of the Mountains of Ararat which are a rather large place. The thing was made of wood with nobody now being sure what gopher wood is and most likely would have used pegs rather than nails to hold it together meaning if you go literal about it you should expect to find nothing after a few thousand years in the open.
3) I go with the oldest Mesopotamian version anyway if you want to get factual. The one in the Bible strikes me as being a parable rather than an effort to record what the Rabbis would have called mere history.
A parable is very interesting way of teaching moral lessons. The Rabbi told a story and if you were the right sort you got it and were the better for it. If you were the wrong sort you ignored it, blew it off, or as likely as not didn’t even get it.
I think this is in keeping with the proverb that says do not cast your pearls (words of wisdom) before swine least they turn and rend you and trample them into the mire.
I’ve already got one
bobbo, the evangelical anti-theist said, on April 27th, 2010 at 3:25 pm
To all good folks who find “new ideas” or even warmed over ones still of interest
I enjoyed the 4 chord music link, good shot!
Noah must have had an iPod.
Also Noah brought baby dinosaurs because they were smaller than adult dinosaurs. Probably baby other animals too. Also most animals live in the ocean, so the Flood did not affect them.
#37 awake I say; …umm, sorry
Here’s a possible explanation. When I was at College there was a book written by a professor of Egyptology called the Compendium. It was a compilation of the kings and pharaohs of Egypt and the possible dates that they reigned. During that time (College not Egypt, really) some problems were discovered with the dates given for some of the pharaohs because their reigns actually overlapped. Some pharaohs were found to have reigned over only certain regions and not over all of Egypt. The original book was withdrawn and is considered completely bogus now.
All this doesn’t really prove anything but does give reason to believe that perhaps Egypt isn’t as old has been thought since you can’t just assume that the end of the reign of one pharaoh starts the next.
#53, wow, Noah was alive 60 million years ago so that he was around at the same time as the dinosours? Cool, he had a long life.
These people need to see “Noah’s Snowball” — http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcFNRBg8mUw
# 58 Radiotube said, “Stones too large for our own machinery to lift are part of some ancient constructions with tolerances so close you can’t slip a sheet of paper between them.”
I won’t argue with your nonsense about angels, etc. I will say you have obviously never seen the pyramids other than in a photo. I’ve had the pleasure of visiting them many times. We have machines that will lift objects far heavier than the largest blocks comprising the pyramids. That we choose not to or that they may not be suited for such construction is irrelevant. We have the ability simply not the desire at this time.
Secondly, I always get a kick out the “close tolerances” nonsense. The stone blocks that make up the pyramids are very irregular in shape and show signs of having been clumsily hewn on site to fit together. The tolerances are abysmally poor. Just because a few spots on the surfaces actually touch, thus refusing the admittance of a sheet of paper, does not mean the tolerances were tight. If some advanced civilization had crafted the pyramids, especially with advanced techniques, I think they would have gone for square cut stones and fewer patches.
#59, why do you limit me to Egypt when it comes to colossal stone monuments? Consider Sacsahuamán in Peru. http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v20/i2/ancient.asp
There’s a 20,000 ton block that was moved there somehow.
You have to love religion and other superstition based activities. . They provide those with functioning brain cells a source for amusement.
#58 Death did not predate Adam. Death began when Adam (and Eve) sinned by eating the fruit. Having dinosaurs at millions of years means that death had been introduced millions of years before. Fossils don’t get there without death.
I am going to ignore all your talk about demons building the pyramids and starting Roman, Greek, and Norse myth.
This is insane…
Radiotube, now that was a rabbit hole. Astonishing.
”The biblical story says that God decided to flood the Earth after seeing how corrupt it was.”
Oh really? I think it’s safe to make the statement that the world is much more corrupt than it was about 5000 years ago. So I believe we about due for another flood.
At least flood out Washington DC, and Wall Street.
#64, The rainbow was a sign that God would never again destroy the world by a global flood. Next time it will be fire.
What makes you think we are more corrupt now than pre-Flood? According to Michael Savage Wall Street is only corrupt because President Bill Clinton signed the bill repealing Glass-Steagall.
Some say it’s the Ark, I say it’s the bark.
Until someone can give a rational explaination of where all that water came from and where it went, the global flood
myth is a fairy tale. BTW – “God did it” is not a rational explaination.
#54–jbellies==you ask “I don’t see how the facts of #30 cherax refute the second statement of #23 Benjamin (congrats to him). Help?” /// I also thought Benji might be correct afterall but I kept thinking. My original idea was correct, that all Humanity comes from Mrs Noah ((actually Mr Noah too, but we have no genetic/scientific proof of that)) but as genetics is not my field, I crumbled on good will that Benji knew what he was talking about as had just been demonstrated with the math question.
But, as I understand it, all humanity does come from Mrs. Noah as all humanity came from her 3-4 sons. The fact that the sons had different wives is irrelevant, as is so much in religious thinking.
#55–gooddebate==What about the Chinese written record? I’ve been meaning for some time to confirm that. What about salt towers in caves? Water would disssolve them and they would not form during the drying times like the towers on the surface would.
#57–Pandeism–nice video there. What it really demonstrates is the warp and weave of science as the way to understand the universe. Few of us recognize how many disparate disciplines actually do support one another. The TRUTH will do that. Cut the cloth with fairy tales and the whole edifice of science speaks against it. EVOLUTION—without it, biology, medicine, genetics all becomes meaningless, but as your video effectively demonstrates==so does geology, climatology, etc. Its all of one thing. The Truth.
Love the Monty Phython interruptions and always reminds me of “The Grand Tetons” here in the USA. The French named it, and our forefathers bought into it. Ha, ha.
Benji–lets imagine an ocean turned into fresh water. As god is behind this, rather than science, I suppose he could have all the salt water evolved creatures continue on their way, all the filter feeders fed etc===but in the real world, there would have been a 99% die off in the oceans so flooded. You actually fooled me again. I thought you were posting most of that gibberish as a criticism. Guess not?
You know Benji, as anti-theist as I am, I can still respect people of faith who do good works, who don’t judge others, who don’t ignore the science available to them. I guess that describes a very few people, but its an admirable goal.
#59–Animby==ever seen the stone structures in Peru? You can’t get a piece of paper between them for the entire structure, earthquake damage excluded. They really are beautiful constructs.
Bubba==thanks. Should be a video or two there for anyone interested in short video presentations. But I’m going back to Pandeism and view a few more science/religion videos. I like the current wave of spin that science and religion address different areas of life, that there is no conflict between the two. Like most things, that depends on how you define your terms. Then the religious types use one set of terms to say there is no conflict, then slip seemlessly into a different set of definitions to show how correct religion is. More flexible than chinese acrobats.