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On February 12 of this year, U.S. forces entered a village in the Paktia Province in Afghanistan and, after surrounding a home where a celebration of a new birth was taking place, shot dead two male civilians (government officials) who exited the house in order to inquire why they had been surrounded, and then shot and killed three female relatives (a pregnant mother of ten, a pregnant mother of six, and a teenager). The Pentagon then issued a statement claiming that (a) the dead males were “insurgents” or terrorists, (b) the bodies of the three women had been found by U.S. forces bound and gagged inside the home, and (c) suggested that the women had already been killed by the time the U.S. had arrived, likely the victim of “honor killings” by the Taliban militants killed in the attack.
Although numerous witnesses on the scene as well as local investigators vehemently disputed the Pentagon’s version, and insisted that all of the dead (including the women) were civilians and were killed by U.S. forces, the American media largely adopted the Pentagon’s version, often without any questions. But enough evidence has now emerged disproving those claims such that the Pentagon was forced yesterday to admit that their original version was totally false and that it was U.S. troops who killed the women.
[…]
What is clear — yet again — is how completely misinformed and propagandized Americans continue to be by the American media, which constantly “reports” on crucial events in Afghanistan by doing nothing more than mindlessly and unquestioningly passing along U.S. government claims as though they are fact.
Read the rest of the article to see how you’re constantly being lied to. Makes you wonder if you can believe the government on why we’re there at all.
UPDATE: For those people commenting, this article is actually about the media blindly reporting what the government says rather than doing real reporting. Not about the war. That is just the example used. Another example is how the White House reporters don’t ask hard questions so they don’t lose their passes.
#31: I do support the troops; I was one in the Vietnam era.
What I don’t support is the high level officers and the Pentagon level civilians that have messed up so many times, but instead of being fired or getting a court martial, they get their medals, get bumped in rank, or or get their bonuses.
This is why the Geneva Convention insists that combatants be in uniform.
Once combatants pretend to the civilians, there is no protection for either in war.
American soldiers are among, if not the most conscientious in the world, but there will be both accidental killings as well as killings by a murderous fringe under cover of power.
Courts Martial are the answer to the latter.
#31
I like to believe most of use agree with what you’ve said. Nothing is absolute. We are fed what we know and one needs to do more to extend the truth of all matters. This applies to wars and events in general.
I think bejamin might be sarcastic in what he said as there are those that will support the military no matter what and those that opposes them no matter what.
Re:#31, Glass Half Full said: “Most of them are doing a great job. But that doesn’t mean you can’t criticize the ones that AREN’T.”
Glass Half Full, you are fighting a war whether you like it or not. Your troops, the “most of them” that you say are doing a great job, are in more danger now because you, an American, are calling your own troops murderers… and they didn’t “murder anyone”. There were civilian casualties because of a mistake… not murder unless there wasn’t a war going on or they killed them on purpose. for spite. It happens all the time in a war. War sucks that way.
All this public negativity from people like you is out there for anyone to see… including Pakistani news reporters, and the Taliban, AND sleeper cells in the US. Very nice of you support the Taliban, when your troops… the “most of them” that you say are doing a great job STILL have to be there whether you like it or not. Get it? They can’t just go home! The ass who posted that video should be shot as a traitor.
Wait until the war is over if you must air your dirty laundry in public. Your government would be mighty stupid and negligent if they didn’t keep war secrets during war time.
Benjamin has got it right.
#35
I don’t want to be a hippy! NO!!!!!!!!!!!!
Whatever the case may be, with war going on there will be cases where things are not done “right”, on both sides. How can you fight the enemy when they are literally just kids forced to be cannon fodder? Problem is you either fight or be killed by a stray bullet from them. There’s nothing pretty about the scenario.
How can you fight the Japanese soldiers in WW2 without embracing their samurai do-or-die mindset? How can anyone expect soldiers to come home and not be affected by what they’ve gone through?
War isn’t pretty and it’s sure isn’t fair.
These military stories always seem to generate the best comments. I say #6 for the win.
Well Kiddies, once again, try to balance a few balls of reality rather than suck on them.
This is not a WAR. It is counter insurgency, close but very different. Treat it as a WAR, and it is guaranteed you will lose the counter-insurgency.
So–one source says the people leaving the house were unarmed, another says they were armed. Local population says one thing, the military another. We will never know the truth, but we do know that if we make too many innocent errors, if we kill too many innocent people, we will lose the insurgency. As in Vietnam, we can “win” every engagement and still lose the War. And it was a War in Vietnam, with lots of guerilla tactics, but still a War.
Not so in Afghanistan. But how can we expect our military to adapt and change tactics when we have pinheads thinking that fighting smart is not supporting our troops?
Shame on you. I care not about morality–only winning by being effective. Double check the intelligence, or don’t go in. Was the target really worth it? Who did we think was there?
A smart military. An informed and questioning support base in the american public? We are doomed. Even Karzai just said he’s thinking about going over to the Taliban.
Ha, ha. I guess he doesn’t support our troops either.
Its a crazy world when Voice of America does a better job of reporting news than so called unbiased news sites.
#11 & 24 Benjamin : I’m basically with you. I served in the US mil in the late 60s when everything was going to hell in SE Asia. I lived and worked in Afghanistan for seven years before during and after the NATO action. I’ve served in other war zones including Angola, Mozambique, Bosnia and Kosovo. (As a doctor not a soldier.)
I’ve seen more war than most non-pro soldiers and I don’t give a whit as to their morality. That’s not my job. I will only say, they are all ugly and I wish they didn’t exist.
The worst are the wars where you can’t identify the combatants. When the warriors and the civilians look identical, there will be mistakes. This isn’t WWII where the “bad guys” all dressed the part. Yet, even then, mistakes were made.
If the soldiers in this incident are found to have acted maliciously, then I hope they get the max punishment. If they made a mistake, then I say, that’s war now get on with getting it over with.
Anyone who thinks these men walked up to the house expecting or not caring about shooting pregnant women, well you’ve probably never served in the military. The only time I’ve seen that happen intentionally was in the Serb actions in Bosnia & Kosovo.
I do not support any war nor do I kneejerk condemn them. I don’t always trust the reasoning of our political leaders but I can say this about the vast majority of soldiers: They only want to get their assigned tasks done and get home safely.
Rick: agreed.
If we can’t win by being the “better” combatants, then we can’t win.
At this point, I wonder if the Islamic world thinks it is better to “contain” the US and feed us cheap oil to keep us happy?
Re: #40, Animby… nicely said, and nicely done. Thanks.
Heckuva job, Barry.
#4 Benjamin said, on April 6th, 2010 at 7:26 am
“What is this: bash the military day? How about we show our soldiers some support?”
No, it is simply showing what is really happening!
Bloody American military should get the fuck out of these useless wars. American military has NEVER cloaked itself in glory! Remember the absolute fuck-up in Vietnam and everywhere else they have been involved. They didn’t get into the 2nd world war until 1942, we were in there from 1939. No the Yank soldiers do NOT deserve any support.
Wow, I agree with Uncle Dave on something! Most reporters are just stenographers, mildly rewriting press releases.
Although, I’m not sure why Uncle Dave is pinning this on Whitehouse reporters, they’re not mentioned in the article.
I guess Uncle Dave just can’t help himself but to somehow bring the Whitehouse into anything.
Wow.. lots of the usual positions being fought for about THIS topic.. Umm.. the Press and it’s coverage..???
First… I’ve become very tired of the ‘general public’s’ lack of understanding of what “war” actually “is”…. I mean REALLY folks..!!!
The quote “War is Hell” is amazingly accurate… so, what is “Hell”..?? It’s the worst imaginable place, with the worst imaginable things happening, to EVERYONE… for the worst reasons, and with the worst outcomes.
Got it everyone…???? Lots and lots of people get killed… combatants, innocents, women, children, elderly, etc… and lots of stuff gets destroyed… rightly and wrongly… yep.. that’s what war is about.
Mistakes happen, and totally innocent people die for no reason… and it breaks ones heart… always has, and always will…
That topic could go on forever and without a ‘solution’ other than to change the evolutionary ‘result’ that is “mankind” itself.
To end THAT thread, note… that there hasn’t been a war of ‘total destruction’ since WWII… where ‘we’ were in a war to destroy a “country” and it’s ENTIRE “WILL” and capability to fight. This meant TOTAL ANNIHILATION as an option… and hundreds of thousands of ‘civilians’ died as a result. The war ended with entire populations defeated, and willing to ‘capitulate’ so as not to be wiped out as a ‘people/country’.
Big difference today… if we told the Afghans that we were going to obliterate their country and it’s population if they didn’t cough up the Taliban and Al Queda, and proceeded to DO THIS… at some point the population would either ‘come around’ and do what was needed to ‘save itself’ or be obliterated. A population facing annihilation will change it’s very culture in a heart-beat when faced with certain demise… note Japan’s total cultural transformation post WWII.
Now, as to Dvorak’s premise of media complacency… it’s “very old news” and shouldn’t be an issue other than “business as usual”. There was a great “study” done about the Press Coverage, military communications with Washington, and the State Dept actions, and actual actions at the scene before-during-after the Philippine-American war.
The Press NEVER has it right the first time… and rarely the second and third time. With all the press hounds howling and yammmering about ‘freedom of the press’ and access… they never admit to their own lack of accuracy as to the real situations at hand in the conflict.
(Yawn…) reporters are nothing but average folks, witnessing “war”, and thinking that their written/video account of such a horrible event “explains” anything…. does the depiction of a horrible car accident stop us all from driving..???
This is why I don’t pay attention to the TV info-tainment. Or if I do, I have to gather 10 different sources of the same event just to get half the truth.
#4 “What is this: bash the military day? How about we show our soldiers some support?”
So they can rape and murder MORE innocent civilians?
Fuck that!
#46 So, let me get this straight, you think its all okay? You’re even more messed up than the murderers.
Seek psychiatric help.
#36 Bobbo
Counter-insurgency makes it sound like we’re defending ourselves or our allies, and we’re not. It’s an invasion complete with occupational army and puppet government installed. War used to be a last resort option, now thanks to defensive terms and fear oriented propaganda, it’s a necessity. Wake up Zombies, your government lies to you to maintain the status quo of individuals who would never think of sending their children to die in a war.
#45: Reread what I wrote. The article is about those reporting on the war. I lump them in with those reporting on the White House who are doing the same shoddy reporting as the others.
#50–Amodedoma==shoot!!! Given the positive vibe coming from your post I so wanted to agree with you AND I’ve been waiting for someone to say “Its not counter-insurgency.” Its all definitional, choose what word you will just as it could be a “war” as that may be defined. “But”–in general paralance, Afghanistan is more about counter-insurgency than it is about war.
But, I can’t agree with you when you justify your otherwise supportable position by saying: “Counter-insurgency makes it sound like we’re defending ourselves or our allies, and we’re not. It’s an invasion complete with occupational army and puppet government installed.” /// I agree but thats exactly why we are in Afghanistand (leaving Iraq?)===because of what you said and that is counter-insurgency. “People pissed that foreigners are in their country.”
Just as you and I would be because at basic levels, all people are the same. No good self centered stupid shits finagling for whatever scraps they can get and praising god or the government or themselves for their “good fortune.”
“Thats why I love mankind, you really need me!”
Dave, the point you’re making right now goes to the heart of my frustration with the current state of the American public conversation.
Because you’re right. The government, in fact ANY government with no exceptions, cannot be trusted. And it’s also true about the media. The excessive amount of news bandwidth makes it a ‘sellers market’ when it comes to the interactions between reporters and government- to simplify, you don’t get Watergate style investigations into officials who can just choose to interview on some other network. It’s not just the government that gets this ‘benefit’ of a needy media, btw.
These two points constitute a fundamentally conservative, small-government position. They are what anyone who thinks about it can see is true. They are both widely held views, on both sides. My life experience tells me they are true.
BIG INSTITUTIONS ARE ALWAYS INCOMPETENT AND CORRUPT.
THE MASS MEDIA IS A SELLER OF GOODS EVERY BIT AS MUCH AS A TOBACCO OR OIL COMPANY IS AND IS NOT ONE BIT MORE DESERVING OF TRUST.
So why is it that most conservatives will react against stories like yours, and most liberals will cover their eyes and whistle a happy tune while granting that same government massive, intrusive, detailed personal authority over individuals’ lives? Why is everyone choosing to abandon reason and advocate for their biases instead?
It’s an amazing little slice of human nature, and it’s behavior that you can see re-enacted again and again. What do you suppose it means?
Dave, I understand your point but you can’t use such a highly emotional example to make your point. The war is too polarizing. If you want to try again, I suggest you stick to the absence of accurate political reporting. Leave out Obama, though. Too polarizing.
Speaking of polarizing—-imagine if there was a draft on currently for our military adventures.
think Generation “Millenium” is passive and uninvolved???
Just involve them and watch the servers crash.
If it were politically viable we would already have a draft. We may need another false flag operation for that to happen. I predict it will be spectacular and there will plenty of video of it for the evening propaganda broadcasts.
Amazing how all this stuff comes to light, now that it can be blamed on Obama. But during Dick Cheney’s rule, it was all very hush hush. And even whitewashed. Are we to believe that no major screwups occurred between 2001 and 2009. Except, of course, for 9-11 itself. Which, as I said, was whitewashed so that Cheney/Bush were not to be blamed. But you can bet that now, the Birthers, the Tea Partiers, and the rest of the Republican sore losers will blame this on Obama. And the Pentagon will probably step aside and allow it to happen. Not falling on their swords, as they should, to protect the Presidency, by taking the responsibility for this mess.
Speaking of the American Media. It’s not just the newspapers and Tv news coverage, ya know. The entertainment industry also largely does the Pentagon’s bidding. Why do you thing last year’s Best Picture WAS the Hurt Locker. War pictures, during any war, are almost guaranteed to win, over sloppy romance films, or CGI fantasies. And it won’t surprise me if The Unit, and/or NCIS does an episode real soon, to try and explain away this incident. Why do you think they created Tv shows like JAG and NCIS, in the first place? As damage control for incidences like the Gun Turret fire aboard the USS Iowa, back in 1989. When the Navy’s NCIS tried to blame it all on gay sailors’ suicide pack. Rather than admit to faulty munitions, or insufficient safety practices and training. The NCIS got caught in the smear campaign. And now long after that, Tv’s JAG and NCIS were born. With the Pentagon riding shotgun on script approval.
Wake up America. Even your entertainment media is a government tool. And has been since WW2.
Based on what was said, I don’t have a clue what happened and neither does the person who posted this. To be blunt if he can’t prove what he said I think he should have to forfeit everything he owns for malicious slander. If he can prove it then that’s another story.
#57 & #58 – Moved into Adam Curry’s world have you?
It would be best for mankind to let these huge media coorporations go bankrupt.