On March 16, Tea Partiers from around the country gathered (in disappointing numbers) in front of the Capitol building for their final protest against health care reform. Also in town, appropriately, was Barnum & Bailey’s actual circus.
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While he is cherry picking to prove a point, I can tell you the reality is not that far off. One of my friends went to a rally a while back and he was frightened by the things he heard people say.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, democracy just doesn’t work.
Yea, and just as many Obamacare supporters, don’t have a clue what they are supporting…
#2,
what?? What he heard?? he didnt read the bill HIMSELF.. WOW, he must like Preachers, insted of reading the bible.
#3
DEMOCRACY works when those running the country are AFRAID of their constituents..and what they WILL/CAN do to them IF’ they dont follow thru.
#4 how could they? the dems voting for it don’t even know what’s in it.
Some members of congress are claiming teabaggers spit on them and yelled racist and anti-gay epithets at them.
I especially like the slide show where so many people have white hair meaning they are close to if not already getting socialized medicine… And of course they are all white…
You can make any group look foolish if you try. Seen many videos of Congress, lately?
They should have expressed concerns that the new bill forces all Americans to purchase insurance through insurance companies. This poses a problem for free market principles. The insurance companies could potentially raise prices because customers are legally forced to acquire insurance.
Even though I disagree with the democrats on this, a single payer system would ensure that we are only getting screwed by the govt. With this bill we are being screwed by the govt and the insurance companies.
The proper solution IMHO would be to create a competitive environment whereby prices will come down as a result of the market.
Well, when sheep herd my guess is most are not entirely sure why they do.
keep the gubment out of my medycare!
#5 I have no idea what you are trying to say…
He was frightened by the racial slurs and extremist claims made by some of the people there.
worst of the worst.
I’m a P tarty person. I believe in Ben Gleck.
I could hardly believe my social-eyes.
I find it hilarious that when liberals are in power these conservative are anti-government. When the Republicans are in power they are red-blooded American taxpayers.
I say arrest them on charges of sedition. Clearly they hate America 😉
Eric Morris said,
I think it is deplorable that Uncle Dave or the videographer wouldn’t take the time to read the bill and point out where these concerns are found. They instead act as if the right is blatantly lying. Political maneuvering and outright bias is very destructive to our future posterity.
I have read the bill and know where the concerns come from.
Well that’s nice. However everything you posted was about HR-3200 which was the old health care bill and even then most of it was debunked as wrong or at best debatable. They have abandoned that bill.
#12 Eric Morris: A different take, point by point for a few points.
Objective: accuracy of Morris’ reportage:
Pg 22: Assures that self-insurance programs live up to standards of quality, solvency risk and freedom from causing adverse conditions for the insured.
Morris didn’t get it.
Pg 30: (Section 123) Establishes a committee headed by the Surgeon General and a diverse group of members to watch benefit standards.
Morris missed the point.
Pg 29: Essential benefits package. Establishes absolute yearly minimums that any health plan can offer. $5,000 for individual, $10,000 for family. Elderly not mentioned, not a factor.
Morris invented his summary.
Pg 42: Establishes that the Health Choices Administration will maintain standards of qualified health benefits plans, determine eligibility of individual’s affordability credits for participating in subsidized plans (how poor are you?), promote accountability of plans to meet Fed standards, audit plans, recover costs of auditing plans, collect data, determine violators, sue them, help the folks harmed by bad plans, and stuff like that.
Morris is not looking like a good source of summary at all.
That’s as far as I took it. Just the first four points, but I give student Morris a D minus in thinking in the abstract.
Feel free to read the real document here for yourself: http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf
Eric Morris said,
“I have read the bill and know where the concerns come from.
PG 50, Section 152: Extends benefits and coverage to illegal immigrants. ”
SEC. 152. PROHIBITING DISCRIMINATION IN HEALTH CARE.
(a) In General- Except as otherwise explicitly permitted by this Act and by subsequent regulations consistent with this Act, all health care and related services (including insurance coverage and public health activities) covered by this Act shall be provided without regard to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services.
Read it yourself: Section 152 in H.R. 3200, the official bill text. >>
Now, one could see how “personal characteristics” could be interpreted as covering one’s immigration status… unless you kept reading to Section 246:
H.R. 3200: Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS
Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.
So you did “read it you self” ?
Copy paste???
#17. The many points and areas of the bill have not been completely re-written. Sure the one they’ll vote on isn’t the text Morris and I addressed, but the tweaks and adjustments in the final will not be whole-cloth changes.
The thing I find disappointing is that Morris has gone to a great deal of trouble to miss the sense of the document he derides.
Why, one might logically conclude that he had started with an attitude, not drawn one from the evidence in front of him.
My guess is that he is a Republican and was agin’ dis from the git go.
Those are the faces of the people I see driving on the freeway. They’re the people in my mom’s prayer group. They are the voices praising those buffoons on the radio. They’re all around us. We’re fucked.
@17 Yes, I understand there have been many revisions and I haven’t had the chance to read every version. I am 18 and just want real discussion. Jefferson and Adams disagreed on the BIG issues but they set down (for the most part) and made decisions for the American people.
@18 Thanks for grading me. I disagree with your evaluation and will leave it at that. Thanks for the link. I will read as much of it as I can tonight.
It’s been a great debate and I hope that we find the answers to our BIG problems, however, I don’t think this is the correct answer to the problem we are currently facing.
Here is a question and one of my BIG concerns about this bill. How will the government pay for the bill? Would it not be with High taxes, borrowing, printing more money, cutting payments, rationing services? Will we all not end up paying for this in a BIG way? Even if we are enrolled in the government “option” or not.
“1. 1. WILL THE PLAN RATION MEDICAL CARE?
This is what the bill says, pages 284-288, SEC. 1151. REDUCING POTENTIALLY PREVENTABLE HOSPITAL READMISSIONS:
‘(ii) EXCLUSION OF CERTAIN READMISSIONS.—For purposes of clause (i), with respect to a hospital, excess readmissions shall not include readmissions for an applicable condition for which there are fewer than a minimum number (as determined by the Secretary) of discharges for such applicable condition for the applicable period and such hospital.
and, under “Definitions”:
‘‘(A) APPLICABLE CONDITION.—The term ‘applicable condition’ means, subject to subparagraph (B), a condition or procedure selected by the Secretary . . .
and:
‘‘(E) READMISSION.—The term ‘readmission’ means, in the case of an individual who is discharged from an applicable hospital, the admission of the individual to the same or another applicable hospital within a time period specified by the Secretary from the date of such discharge.
and:
‘‘(6) LIMITATIONS ON REVIEW.—There shall be no administrative or judicial review under section 1869, section 1878, or otherwise of— . . .
‘‘(C) the measures of readmissions . . .
EVALUATION OF THE PASSAGES:
1. This section amends the Social Security Act
2. The government has the power to determine what constitutes an “applicable [medical] condition.”
3. The government has the power to determine who is allowed readmission into a hospital.
4. This determination will be made by statistics: when enough people have been discharged for the same condition, an individual may be readmitted.
5. This is government rationing, pure, simple, and straight up.
6. There can be no judicial review of decisions made here. The Secretary is above the courts.
7. The plan also allows the government to prohibit hospitals from expanding without federal permission: page 317-318.”
I am reading over the current bill and the analysis seems correct. Am I missing something.
@#3 Democracy doesn’t work… if the majority are idiots. :\
#3 – Democracy used to work but I agree, it’s irrevocably broken in this country.
#21 – “They’re all around us. We’re fucked.”
Truer words were never written.
I completely agree, we are TRULY FUCKED.
Funny people/Good sheep
I read several of the sections Morris pointed out until I got the idea. I guess his objection is that the thing appears to be set up as a managed operation. You want it unmanaged with no guidelines? I won’t give any money to private insurance companies, that’s my objection. I want a modern, civilized system where I pay for universal coverage through my taxes. If the government can’t pay for it.. I know a couple of land wars in Asia and a hundred foreign bases that could be eliminated instead. In other countries the people pay high tax rates, but not much higher, and they actually get something for it.
#6 Amen brother, I was just gonna post that.
I’ve seen plenty of progressive protesters just as clueless in cherry picked videos. BUT the difference is, that NO ONE knows what is in this bill!!
First, no one has read the “bill”; it has yet to be completed. What you are reading is not the bill that will/has been voted on. Second, this bill is projected to be over 2900 pages and, in the form you can read, has intentionally competing components. Any two people can find multiple things in this monstrosity that say competing things. This is why the whole thing needs to be scraped.
Additionally, statements like the one author of this post use “quoted at the end) only impede the debate (his real intent) and only further show their ignorance. Attacking the person making the argument does not disprove their argument and only shows your own ignorance and cowardice.
“On March 16, Tea Partiers from around the country gathered (in disappointing numbers) in front of the Capitol building for their final protest against health care reform. Also in town, appropriately, was Barnum & Bailey’s actual circus”,
#30 thatsmychin said,”NO ONE knows what is in this bill!!”
The associated point should be even IF they know precisely what is in the bill, they are voting to pass something on the FAITH that it will be changed before going into effect.
It worse than going into a Toyota dealership and they say, yes, the accelerator sticks but go ahead and buy the car. As soon as your check clears, we’ll fix it real good!
Sort of like that except there are dozens of things to be fixed in the health bill. And no warranty.