Got my census yesterday and filled it out. It just had 10 questions. I refused however to fill out questions 8 and 9 because they were about race.
The way I see it the race issue will never be dead until we quit focusing on it. Ever since blacks were deemed to be people and women were given the right to vote, the purpose of the census is just to count people. If you go back in time far enough we are all African. So I decided the questions were out of bounds. My opinion is that this question will lead to race based decisions and is therefore racist.
Ah, so now intelligence goes out the door and we’re smack in a naming game are we? Wow…nice. So much for you proving we’re all Africans.
I can’t name one instance because as I said it is UNKNOWNED. The articles you cited says so, the links are gave states so. The link TCC gave says sol How dense can you be. Do you even bother to read? So by me saying it’s unknown, agreeing with the research, how did I suddenly become ignorant and confused? I don’t know Bob, you act like you do therefore PROVE it or STFU and let me finish laughing. haahhaHAHAHAHA
And again, the article you cited has ASSUMPTIONS. I’ve made an ASSUMPTION in regard to Marc saying we’re all Africans. Are you stupid to read that much into that?
As for my trip example, it’s that EXACT attitude that most of us here are having this discussion. Get the point? 🙂 Imagine a black group of students walking into the cafeteria, imagine everyone stopped what they’re doing and stared longingly at them, imagine the utter silence IN A CAFETERIA 🙂 Now imagine you giving your lame excuse there because you’re pissed that you suck debating with me hahahahahaha
Honestly, you think because 100+ black students walked into a cafeteria that everyone stopped because they think the students are jerks? And to support your statement there it’s because I was part of the group? HOLY FCK you are screwed up man. Get some help! LMAO.
#54
TCC, more info but same conclusions towards the end with timeline shot from 200,00 years ago to 2million years ago for the various “human” species.
Come on Bob, now resorting to off topic accusations and insinuations? This is unbecoming, well not really, of you. I knew you were crazy but this discussion is totally on a whole new level.
FCK OFF and let me be LMAO.
Marc Perkel
I support your right to not answer. It is also clear that discrimination based on race is not a result of your outlook so you have nothing to feel guilty for.
Others
If you want to answer the question do, if you do not don’t. We are all the same species, we are all some combination of race (even French and Spanish were at one point isolated enough to be different races). It is likely we all migrated from the same place because we can all breed successfully (generally speaking) and that suggests a lack of long term isolation from one another that would result in speciation.
Race, culture and genetic diversity or similarity in related populations is real and is significant, partly because we give it significance through tribalism (which is natural and served an evolutionary purpose), but also because there are differences in genetic make-up as it relates to prevalence of disease etc. However race is increasingly more a question of culture than genetics unless you are still breeding in isolated groups (geographically or culturally). Useful and beneficial understanding of race/breed/genetics is more a question for your doctor than your government, and if people were treated equally based on humanity rather than sub-group the government would not need to ask.
True justice is blind, humans seem largely incapable of this (and even mock those that try) so maybe we should not expect it will come from a census question. Everyone already knows America is very diverse, so if everyone is treated as fundamentally equal at birth by the government (as it relates to potential not circumstance) maybe we can move on.
I filled out mine without any problems nor drama.
Yea, the COST and INTRUSION of forcing occupants to complete forms just has too much Monty Python Nazism about it. (“How can I sign the forms if you broke my fingers?”–Firesign).
In the alternative==maybe this would be cheap, easy, freedom supportive, and even more accurate: “If you fail or refuse to mark this form you will be counted as “White, Male, 73 yo, Walks with a Cane, Suffers from Alzheimer’s”–if this doesn’t describe you, fill out the freaking form.
I don’t believe anyone is saying that race does not exist. What I think many of us are saying is that in many ways it is a dated classification. It is a social construct. In simple summary it exist, but it doesn’t. It exist because we created it. It continues to exist because we continue to use it.
The honest truth is that there is more genetic diversity within select populations than there is often outside of it. Still there is some merit in population genetics within our species. If by some, you mean a little.
True, based on select biological backgrounds you will be predisposed to diseases. You could, however, argue this on the basis of ethnic origin and not just race. Different individuals of varying white ethnic origin (or black or Asian) are statistically more likely to have XYZ than another group.
However, these are samples of groups. Very broad samples. I am not sure if it is as useful as many people believe. Still, it does have some merit.
You could, however, further break this down. We could regress further and begin to bring back ethnic origins. Why not ask “White people” do classify their “Whiteness” based on their ethnic origins? This could be important for determining the likelihood of certain diseases that are more common in those of Swedish heritage vs Slovaks.
I do, however, agree that the concept of racism is still in practice today. From a cultural stand point it probably is important because of the allocation of resources.
However, just because a concept is in play does not mean that it is truthful. What historically made race easy was that individuals were simple to classify or it was believed so. In truth, it never was. It is not easy to neatly categorize people. It never has been, it never will be. However, the perception was there.
This, however, really has begun to change. Science has changed most of what we viewed as race. Societal predispositions, however, has not caught up.
Looking at the form now, It’s amusing to me that they make a point that “Hispanic origins are not races,” and yet they felt the need to create separate race categories for China, Korea, Japan, Vietnam, and the Philippines.
The inconsistency of their category system is too silly to not have fun with it – example: my little adopted cousin from Russia should correctly be filled in as “Other, Asian”
I don’t think discriminating because of race is really much of an issue. Sometimes discrimination is necessary or its polite to consider ones culture.
The real problem lies in malice and hatred towards a person because of their race, or taking a position of condescending superiority because your yours. Sometimes this manifests as discrimination.
As for the census data, I would have thought ‘country of origin’ would have been more useful than race.
I just received an envelope from the US Census Bureau informing me that the Census will be sent next week. So let me get this straight…you are sending me a letter to tell me that the Census will be here next week? Really? In an era of out of control government spending and suicidal debt levels our government decided that spending at least $100 million dollars to send out these waste-of-time notices was prudent. Just another example of a government that has become a Leviathan, ever growing, ever present and increasingly hostile to the People. I know, I know…the Census is something that is delineated by the Constitution. Its purpose WAS to reapportion Congress and provide the government a road map of present and future revenues. Now its been turned into a “Make sure to respond so your area can get the funding it NEEDS”. It is now an excuse for more debt spending, more income redistribution and more government intrusion into your life.
There are three approaches you can take on the Census. One is to answer the questions honestly. This, to me, is unconscionable. The government is not our friend and they don’t need to know a fucking thing about our living arrangements. Fuck them. The second approach is to under report or not answer. People who do this are on the right track…this cuts the number of dollars the federal government will be inventing to shove into your neighborhoods and schools. Not answering is respectable for the simple reason that spending five minutes corresponding with an Obongo-led government is six minutes too much. The third approach is one that I am taking, I am going to over-report like a motherfucker.
The Arthur household is going to have 40 retarded, paraplegic refugees from every piece of shit area on the planet. Why? Because I want to fuck their numbers up. I don’t want the government to have any idea of what is going on in local areas. The Federal Government is now an enemy of the people and as far as I am concerned anything I can do to make them over fund is something I should do. I implore everyone to make up silly ass numbers. You want to throw those pieces of shit for a loop? Tell them you have 200 kids. If enough people just made up random numbers it would minimize the accuracy of the Census and thus robbing the government of its ability to target certain areas for increased funding (minority laden areas to be sure). If your neighborhood has thousands of refugees from Haiti you KNOW your school district is going to be getting a ton of money from the government. All the money is fake anyway so it may as well come to your neck of the woods.
My overriding point to this request is that we should not trust the Federal Government for any reason. Giving them an honest representation is an invitation for them to rape you in the face. Fuck all that. I would love nothing more than the Census Bureau (undoubtedly rife with piece of shit unionized Federal workers) to throw up their hands and say “We cannot accurately model the population”. This is just one way for me to send them a message. The message is that I don’t like you, don’t trust you and want you to be destroyed. Yes…I said that. I love America and what we stood for but this government is not that government. This government is bent on the destruction of the country we grew up in and if you think they won’t use the Census to further their redistributive destruction you are naive and foolish. I am glad to throw a wrench in the Obongo America Destroying machine. I sincerely hope that all of you do the same.
Pass this article along to your friends and family. If enough of us stand up and raise our middle fingers we will make our point.
#67, Jeff… excellent post!
Huh. I never looked at it like that. I happen to like Obama. I voted for him. I just happen to think the way they calculated race on this form is silly with the various Asian groups (and a bit insensitive… i.e. Negro is listed). I, however, plan to send it in.
My opposition is more silent criticism. I will probably write my member of Congress and ask how they developed the formulas for this.
I filled out mine without any drama or lies as well. I hate the Obama administration, I think racism is perpetuated by racial questions, I think the government is oppressive and completely corrupt. I just did not want any jackboots showing up at my door and peeking inside for several extremely good reasons.
#70–Hey Wilson==what color rocks do you hide under? I want to make sure my dog never turns those colored rocks over.
Race isn’t important? Hah! Tell that to your doctor bud. It matters. Now if you want to play with their heads, fill it out differently each census. Check the “Other” line and write out “Same as last census”. See if they come back for confirmation. Sure. The census is more like the order form than the payment – “Please write out your check carefully. You may fill out the order form as carelessly as you wish”.
I have been ignoring questions like 8 & 9 for over 20 years.
So it is safe to say I will be skipping them on my census form.
Bravo.
Marc Perkel, with all due respect, your base idea is repulsive! Why should we ever ignore race? Do you desire a world with all people one race? Somebody or something thought it a good idea to make people in all different shapes and sizes, with other *differences* and characteristics. The variety is wonderful. No two people are just alike, neither any two races.
I put down my race, now give me my 40 acres and a mule.
I thought god punished humans who worshiped false idols, or were they having sex?, and so he banished them from Israel, turned their skin black, and made them speak in strange tongues.
Thats a “good” thing? Thats about as good as having your legs taken away and being made to crawl on your belly.
Being all knowing and all merciful and such.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Sometimes a question is just a question.
TheOne,
Thanks for the story. It does take some getting used-to when you’ve spent your whole life as a member of the majority. Being a minority impacts you 1000 different ways. It’s not always tied directly to racism but it’s all a tangle of the same thing.
bobbo, can’t we all just be rational said, on March 16th, 2010 at 12:13 pm
Lets just project whatever feelings/emotions/dogma we wish into an ambiguous/undefined/striated situation and draw from it whatever we were predisposed to do?
Bobbo,
>> #47–One Nice White Boy==
>> What do you think they were thinking? Did you ever get around to asking them?
Despite your initial rudeness, this is a fair issue. If you where in a all-black school and saw a bunch of new white kids, what would you think? I can think of a bunch of possibilities.
Jeff,
I also enjoyed your post.
In my experience social upbringing trumps any possible genetic racial differences.
I can be in a room of 100% ethnic people (Japanese, Indian, Hmong, African, French, whatever) and I will quickly find any individual who was raised in America.
_Where_ they where raised is so much more influential in personality than whatever narrow gene pool they are from.
Wilson, do not lie on the census. Just report your address and the number of people living there. Skip the racist questions. Screwing with the numbers makes too many Congressmen in some areas and too few in others.
As for which race is the minority: “The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.” – Ayn Rand
The individual does not need to identify himself with a race.
Perhaps we should just refer to our individual pigmentation by Pantone color code?
Just think of the graphs!!!
I couldn’t read the entire blather in every post on this subject but I wonder if anyone considered the implication of moving the census from the Commerce Dept. to the White House jurisdiction. One quote in the article says something like putting Raum Emanuel in charge of the census is like putting PETA in charge of issuing hunting licenses.
I am confused about this race thing on the census.
Am I native American because I am a registered tribe member or am I white because I look white and my mom looks more “Mediterranean” than Indian?
I mean are we operating under the 1/8th mulatto rule or the “one drop of non-white” blood rule here in 21st century America?
I guess I need to consult an expert in racial matters – Senator Robert Bird, after all, who better to answer a question on whiteness than the grand kleagle emeritus of the KKK.
# 29 Awake said, on March 16th, 2010 at 9:20 “The race question is there to help ensure that there is a fair balance, that all are given equal opportunity. Suppose you are in an area that is 80% black, yet 70% of the benefits (such as home loans) go to whites… ”
Bzzzt, wrong answer.
A home loan is not a “benefit” to be handed out on some racial quota.
then you said
“Equal opportunity has to be proactive, and that requires knowing the composition of the area.”
What is obvious is that you don’t understand what opportunity means
#42 – Greg Allen said…
It’s usually whites who think that race no longer matters in America.
Most minorities have learned painful lessons otherwise.
Don’t forget reverse migration (most do). As a white male starting in a new field back in the early 90’s, I was told by a senior management minority woman I would be at a clear disadvantage in my goals of career advancement. The company had clear direction to pick minorities over any white male.
The fact is too much focus is on race. I have worked with great and horrible of all backgrounds and sexes. But stupidity – and hatred – knows no racial boundaries.
Odd that you chose to skip those rather benign questions. I skipped 4 and 5, phone number and name respectively. I consider those questions more private than disclosing my name and telephone number.
#88 – TooManyPuppies
Don’t worry about the phone number. AT&T and other fat cat telcos already gave it to them. And your name is cross referenced with the invisible markings embedded in the paper.
But seriously, what is wrong with the questions? I got the short form and there is nothing there the Feds can’t already extrapolate with data they already have.
I think the tin foil brigade needs to get off the interwebitubes since they are monitored there. And stay off the roads. Do not use a bank. Don’t buy anything at stores.
Big Brother already knows who you are and what you do. Big Brother laughs at your feeble attempt at privacy.
@ 89 EvilPoliticians
Actually, if there’s any name or phone number associated with this address it’s the previous apartment resident. I just moved in 3 days ago.
The census form along with about 2 pounds of their mail was sitting in the mailbox when I opened it with the mailman yesterday.
The postal guy wanted to take it all back and I had to argue with him that the census form was generically addressed to “Resident” and thus applied to me. He wouldn’t budge until I asked him to call the main office. After all that he left it with me.
Hell, maybe I should have let him take it away and send it back.
#17 TheOne – Ok, wiki human. Also, oldest bones found in Africa. I have my own personal theories on how Asians, whites, Indians, etc. got their separate characteristics, but I have no proof or scientific studies to back them up. Wiki albino. Did you know people can be partially albino? Have you ever seen two white/asian/indian people give birth to a black child? Think about it buddy.
#23 MrMigu – My thoughts exactly. Race for humans is exactly like breeds for dogs. It’s about as superficial as that too. In fact, I call racists breedists. It seems more appropriate to me. And we’re all breedists anyway, you’d have to be blind or mentally challenged not to be. How you allow that to affect your judgement is what separates intelligent thinking people from sheep. I laugh at breedism. Just like I laugh at religion and government. These are all constructs created by man to manipulate other men for one reason or another. I don’t see myself as a breed, belonging to any religion or any nationality. I refuse to allow others to define who I am. Instead of depending on government (and their lame census) to tell us how to interact with each other like children, why don’t we all act like adults and deal with each other voluntarily and according to the NAP?
As for me, I won’t be filling out a census. The government can kiss my butt. 😉 Let them keep coming back, I just won’t answer the door. Congressmen don’t represent my views or interests, they represent their own. Wake up people.
#56 Sea – I think we just migrated really fast, and unlike finches, stopped evolving as much due to conquering our environment instead of allowing our environment to define the species. Also, what #59 bobbo said – imagine if Neanderthals were still around? We’d be trying to preserve them…interesting huh?
#63 – TheOne looks like he’s having a hard time coping with the fact that he’s black. Relax dude, if you go back a little farther, we’re all single celled amoeba (or something along those lines, don’t quote me, you get my point.)
#70 – Wilson – A blantant example of government waste…there are many many more…Amen, and amen! That is freakin hilarious! Wow, I might just do that too…in fact, I might just call into FTL and put that bug in a wider audience’s ears. Thanks for the idea!
#73 Faxon – yeah, go along to get along. You have every single right to be scared, but going along won’t solve the problem, in fact, it will just give them another inch to be fascist.
#89 Evil – then why waste millions of dollars on a census? Because government is so blatantly inefficient it’s embarrassing.