Got my census yesterday and filled it out. It just had 10 questions. I refused however to fill out questions 8 and 9 because they were about race.
The way I see it the race issue will never be dead until we quit focusing on it. Ever since blacks were deemed to be people and women were given the right to vote, the purpose of the census is just to count people. If you go back in time far enough we are all African. So I decided the questions were out of bounds. My opinion is that this question will lead to race based decisions and is therefore racist.
#29 “Equal opportunity has to be proactive, and that requires knowing the composition of the area.”
Equal opportunity does not mean equal results.
#20, the only tidbit of interest from my census notice was how necessary it is so that my community can get “its fair share” from federal gravy train. But it’s not really about being “fair,” it’s about enabling the feds to dole out transfer payments from one community/state to another.
Yep, its the American thing to do.
First of all, check “Other” then fill in one of the following:
Human
Belmont Stakes
Master
Marsian
Klingon
Fucktard
or, my favorite, being a blond, blue eyed part Cherokee, part Hungarian, part Jewish, part Scot, part French….
Colored
Oh here we go with Bobbo, love it!
So you agree that we were once all Africans, that Humans came from Africa, that Africa somehow was a separate continent and did not break off from a whole piece. Yea, rrrriiiiggghht. And Yea, God is also black.
So cavemen and cavewomen were all Africans too. Fck, all this time I didn’t know I was black!
Scientifically speaking….umm…WTF are you talking about here. Are you somehow thinking I’m against evolution? LMAO. You got me here. Apparently I’m not smoking enough pot to be on the same page as you. Oh, you’re ASSUMING we started off as African and evolution changed some of us but still allowed us to breed. That still sounds like you’re on drugs lmao.
I absolutely love talking with you Bobbo, you’re so fcking out there it makes my day. Hell, even reading your posts makes may day.
To prove why you’re so funny, why don’t you, in all your wisdom, tell us how humans came to be from the origin of being African. I’ll give you a whole day to google for your materials, enough time for me to dispute them and lmao.
Try me…seriously 🙂
But federal funding should not be based on race. It should be based on income. The government should be helping poor people rather than a race based solution.
I think that affirmative action based on race is like telling blacks that they are inferior and needs to be treated like a handicapped person rather than an equal member of society.
#35
I don’t disagree with you but according to previous census polls poor communities does include people of specific race in specific regions. Black people are NOT the only race that is poor, so please stop with the “black” comments already.
What the census have shown is that in specific regions of the nation, the dominant poor communities does consist mainly of Blacks and Hispanics. There are poor communities of just whites as well and in few places Asians. Alongside this census, there are issues such as crime, education, funding (obviously) and all that nice stuff.
So although you may not like how it is present or represent the census will show that for some reasons poor communities are separated by races. When talking about how to improve education in poor neighborhoods it 95% of the time involves Black and Hispanic population. It is no different here in San Diego.
Here in San Diego the situation is unique in that although there are poor communities of Black, Hispanic and Asians, the first two groups are the only ones that have very poor performance in many areas (pregnancy, drop out, low scores, attendance, discipline, etc.)
So the census doesn’t tell the whole picture if view from a race perspective. And yes, I got off tangent there 😛
Marc,
I just finished the Census as well and part of the problem for me was that many of the choices were not actually races, but nationalities. Since this was the case, I just chose “Other” and filled in “North American” for each member of my family. This is actually the “truest” answer since everybody in my family was born in North America.
#34–one==what you talkin bout? While none of us “knows” our origins, I do believe the current consensus is that our species arose in East Africa about 2 million years ago. Some say maybe it was in China. NO ONE says our species arose in multiple places.
Your understanding of evolution and time scales appears faulty as 2 million years ago the continents looked almost identical to today. You know those little animations of Pangaea breaking up and swirling around are speeded up don’t you? So what Africa breaking apart has to do with anything is beyond my comprehension. I look forward to you connecting those dots for us.
Cavemen and Women “sounds like” you are talking about Cromagnon which is not our species. Do you know what you are talking bout???
Normally, I don’t do other peoples leg work, but it is so easy and actually of interest to me. First relevant site I found (note: there’s a trick!): http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/12/1227_051227_asia_migration_2.html
Mac Guy said,
This whole “celebrate diversity” crap has to stop. The more we point out our differences, the more people will continue to think in terms of “us” and “them.”
Skin pigmentation is a simple function of genetics. So is eye color. You don’t hear anyone bitching about the green-eyed people, do you? How about the blue-eyed people? Brown-eyed?
What is wrong with thinking in terms of “us” and “them?” Most people think in terms of men and women. Should we stop celebrating the diversity of men and women?
There is a difference between “celebrating diversity” and as you do in the second paragraph, judging people on race and “bitching” about skin color. There is nothing wrong with noting that people are different. There is something wrong with saying that some people are better or worse because they are different.
Is celebrating one’s operating system any different?
It’s usually whites who think that race no longer matters in America.
Most minorities have learned painful lessons otherwise.
>> Marc Perkel said, on March 16th, 2010 at 7:32 am
>> There is no such thing as race. Our president is an example of that.
Yeah, maybe so, but a huge percentage of whites refuse to accept him as American because of his “race.”
Mark: Ah, the classic PC reaction: “Because I presume that others might misinterpret and mis-use this question, I declare it to be a bad question.” Presumptuous, in other words.
Also, race is a very real biological characteristic. It’s not just about skin color; it comprises a whole host of physiological differences. Those differences manifest themselves in differential susceptibility to disease (high blood pressure, glaucoma, malaria, diabetes, autoimmune disorders, alcoholism, etc.), which is one good reason to pay attention to it. Interestingly, though, we tend to think about race in all-or-none terms. Obama is actually as caucasian as he is black. I guess we call him our “first black president” because it sounds better than “our blackest president so far”, and because of the old, asinine “one drop rule”. But “mixed race” applies to lots of folks, like Tiger Woods (black/asian), his kids (black/asian/caucasian), Obama, etc. So what? They would probably use “other/mixed” on the census.
TheOne: You are pathetically ill-informed on the subject of human evolution; Perkel is right about us all being of African origin if you go back far enough. You try to cover your ignorance with (surprise!) bluster and profanity, but, really, go read a book on the subject. Try your local library.
#40, There is nothing wrong with noting that people are different.
I would go further in stating that we are obviously all different – the problem is when people try to say that subgroups are the same because they share a single characteristic in common.
Good idea!
/applaud
>> cherax said, on March 16th, 2010 at 10:48 am
>> Also, race is a very real biological characteristic. It’s not just about skin color; it comprises a whole host of physiological differences.
I, too, resist the concept of “race” as an artificial construct.
But race is still a big deal — especially if you are a minority “race” in a culture.
I’ve lived as a minority in several different countries and one thing always held true — the majority is clueless about what it’s like to be the minority.
If you are the beneficiary of racism, you tend to be blind to it.
That’s why you can blow-off most anything whites say about racism. Instead, listen to what minorities have to say about their experience.
When they ask me what race I am, I always say, “Human.” End of story!
#38
“What you talkin bout?” Umm, I’m talking about what you accused me of. Are we trying to change topics here? 🙂
What you believe is irrelevant to our discussion. I wanted facts, of which you have zero to show. And scientifically speaking, if no one knows knows the “location” where we originated from then it can be concluded no on knows whether or not the origin was from a single or multiple point.
On the next point I’ll give you kudos for mocking my sarcasm about cavemen and cavewomen 🙂 Hey, you got to have your cake somehow.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caveman
And since you brought it up, mispelled…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cro-Magnon
Let me finish your link with some materials from it that apparently you might have missed 🙂 I don’t mind doing the legwork at all, not when I’m having this much fun LOL
“”Evidence of humans in the Caucasus [region of Asia], China, and Java more than 1.6 million years ago implies either a very rapid spread from Africa after about 1.8 millions years ago, or that such populations were established outside Africa earlier than present evidence suggests”
The very first quote from the one single researcher. Notice the OR in the statement. And the very last quote.
“”In other words, we might be looking at [human migration] ‘out of Asia,’ and not ‘out of Africa.'” ”
Ironically, this is an article to dispute the ASSUMPTION that humans arise in Africa. Next you’ll be siding with me eh? O.o
Now you don’t want me to be right do you? Base on your history of posts here, there’s no doubt. Now Google some more info and actually read through them before presenting them. And please NO MORE articles that support what I said but instead support what you are trying to say 😀
Seriously Bobbo, you have to do better than this. Pathetic.
#47
I recently gave an example on PBS about an experience I had when I was a senior in high school. I’ll shorten it up here as an example.
I attended Lincoln High in San Diego county here way back then 😛 We have several trips to tour colleges and universities. One school in particular gave us all the creepiest feeling..by that I mean racial attention. The reason being the school was primarily African American, 2 white students, 10 Hispanics and about a dozen Asians (Laotion, Hmong Vietnamese, Chinese, etc).
Everything went along just fine until we trekked through the cafeteria 😀 As soon as we entered EVERYONE stopped! This wasn’t because the food was good or there were cute boys and girls dining there 😀 Everyone had the same feeling in that we were being looked upon by EVERYONE in the cafeteria and judged because we were different. Some wanted to tore through the place and riot, many were confused and afraid, others just froze because it may have been their first.
I can’t honestly explain this feeling as it MUST be experienced. It is also very fascinating because ALL 100+ students felt the same thing, stopped at the same time and incurred extremely strong emotions from the experience.
This is why I think many White people cannot understand. Racism is strong and it’s not only for Black people but people that are different than the majority in the area.
#44–Benji==nicely done. Still a bit scary you even knew of that website though. Nonetheless, keep the humor and that good stuff coming.
#45–One (But do you know which one?)==Name one instance of the same species arising in different separated locations. Again, you crow on issues that really (I mean—really==no sarcasm or irony, I mean “really”) show your ignorance and confusion over the subject you expound on.
The trick I referenced was my openness to conflicting scientific facts which is why I tried to warn you of the website when misinterpreted could be seen as supporting your position. Just read it again more carefully and I promise not to be so insidious as we continue.
So where are we? Lets see, we both think the other is an gibbering idiot that can’t even understand a linked website.
How would you propose “proof” of what happened 2 Million years ago when Africa was or wasn’t connected to the rest of Asia?
Lets just project whatever feelings/emotions/dogma we wish into an ambiguous/undefined/striated situation and draw from it whatever we were predisposed to do?
#47–One Nice White Boy==I’d say what the kids were thinking in the cafeteria was: “Who are all these jerks comin thru our cafeteria!” But YOU were there.
What do you think they were thinking? Did you ever get around to asking them?
While it’s true race is a social construct based largely on superficial attributes, that doesn’t make it any less “real”.
It is a label which should be self-applied though, to help mitigate the negative aspects of “tribal quarreling”. Most people don’t realize that they have a choice. The deeper genetic aspects of race are approaching taboo, since the data are less readily availible.
Charlize Theron could rightfully submit the answer of “African American”, since she was born in the country commonly known as South Africa. (An evolved human response to taboo subjects is humor, whilst others simply reach for the closest pitchfork. ; ) )
This is how it is possible for imaginary things to have “real” effects, while deeper reality keeps marching on.
In this sense, this is much like any religion.
Remove the blinders, think of the possiblities.
Bobbo and Theone see here
Marc, your heart and mind are in the right place, however I would respectfully disagree with the colorblind approach proposed.
Racial information, like most other information, is neither inherently good nor bad, it all depends on what you do with it. You meet someone, you immediately see a whole host of info about that person like gender, age, weight, and yes, race. The answer isn’t to ignore it, but to accept it, and that’s the tougher part, I think.
Secondly, race-based information is actually useful on a number of different fronts, some of which were briefly mentioned earlier but deserve expansion. One great example is public health. Using data about race allows us to track patterns of disease, including the fact that white women have a higher incidence of breast cancer, and Afr-Am women have a higher mortality rate from it. Using race-related data allowed public health researchers to trace a disease afflicting kids in San Diego to contaminated candy coming from Mexico.
Putting blinders on oneself doesn’t really help in the long run, and as fellow geeks, aren’t we all interested in seeing more information, not less? Again, it’s what you do with it where the real work comes into play.
And yes, I’d agree that as the issue of race becomes increasingly complex (a la your Tiger Woods example), so does our questions and how we approach it. But the answer isn’t to throw up our hands, but to work on it.
PS. Love the blog, and visit daily, thanks.
The only question of interest out of you two’s little spat is how is it that over the tens of thousands of years that it took for “humans” to migrate to all corners of the planet, and the geographic isolation that resulted, why is it that we didn’t diverge into separate species along the way that still survive today (i.e. Neanderthal extinction)? Hell, if finches on different islands in close proximity to each other can experience speciation, why didn’t Humans experience this to any lasting degree on the different continents of the world, or is it just the case that our “out of Africa” version got it right the first time?
For as complex as we are compared to many other organisms, is our genome just that stable that it resists speciation?
#29, Let me guess…Marc Perkel is an old(er) rich (or at least well above the median income) white guy. It makes sense now doesn’t it?
Well, if you want to help the poor go do it. If you want to help people based on the color of their skin then go do it. But federal monies should be distributed by one thing and one thing only, whether it helps ALL U.S. citizens equally.
Marc will probably get visited by a a Bureau employee who will check the no and white box and waste some tax money on gas to do so. Thanks Marc 😉
#56–SL==you know I am an expert in few things, evolution not being one of them. But from a casual laymans reading I would propose that groups adapt and “live together” forming different species when they differentiate usually by food source. So long beeked finches eating nectar can co-exist with short beeked finches eating seeds. Hoomans and Neanderthals all are omnivorous and therefore compete with one another for the available food. Conflict kills off the less adapted.
On the definition of race–mostly cultural or mostly scientific? Well, culture is culture and science is science. Science will offer up minute “facts”–like whether someone’s skin is dark or light. After that, its culture that gives the facts meaning. The evil or racism comes in attributing “false fact” to a group/concept that science tells us is not true==as with low IQ. You might disagree if you are an ashkenazi jew (hee hee!!)but THAT is a longer discussion.
The concept of species becomes definitional rather than “scientific” when pushed at its edges giving us ligers and so forth. Life itself becomes definitional at the microscopic level, and sometimes on this blog? Makes “One” think?
When you refuse to answer the demographic info on the Census Form, your answer gets lumped into the “doesn’t know how to play” category.
I would welcome a Census Form that asked for a four generation family tree to be filled in with either race or national origin.
Then, of course, shoe size, favored OS, height, weight, eye color, rough income, blood type, IQ, waist measurement, bust size, sexual preference, ability to perceive irony on a scale of 1 to 10, number of channels available to you in HD, proficiency in Photoshop, understanding of basic cinema editing techniques, scientific knowledge, ability to parse a syllogistic argument, emotional stability, ability to roll your tongue into a tube and answer to whether or not you can bend your thumb back 80 degrees at the mid joint.
Think of all the fantastic trivia they could compile:
People who could roll their tongue into a tube appear to be 6 points higher in IQ, but earn less!
Whoda thunk?
Maybe race is almost dead. But we’re JUST a few years (not centuries) past the point blacks couldn’t get into country clubs, hell Sammy Davis Jr. had to go in the ‘back’ of some gigs he worked at because the front door was for whites only. That’s in MY dad’s lifetime, we’re not talking ancient history.
And now they’re debating whether they should count gays. Again, why focus on it? Because there are specific laws JUST saying that gay people can’t get married, adopt children, serve in the military (unless you lie), file taxes jointly, etc. While there are laws explicitly out to stop the gays, blacks, Jews or whatever madeup category from “destroying our way of life”(tm – KKK) we need to know who’s out there and how they’re doing.
Arrrgh. I hate those stupid things. Some a**hat in Washington DC created 7 or so “races”, and you are only allowed to fit in to.
I’m a total mutt. I’m 1/4 Mexican, yet if I check the “hispanic” box, it says I am not allowed to check any others. But I don’t have anything that is more than 25% in me. I’m also 25% asian. I’m 25% white boy, and the rest is a mix of this and that.