Arctic methane and cow farts be damned! Yes, it’s obvious that the science is in: American’s cars are at the heart of climate change. Therefore, it’s only right that we cripple our recovering economy to save the planet! [For members of the ‘literal Internet’, that was sarcasm.]
To meet the Obama administration’s targets for cutting greenhouse gas emissions, some researchers say, Americans may have to experience a sobering reality: gas at $7 a gallon.
To reduce carbon dioxide emissions in the transportation sector 14 percent from 2005 levels by 2020, the cost of driving would simply have to increase, according to a report released Thursday by researchers at Harvard’s Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs. The research also appears in the March edition of the journal Energy Policy.
The 14 percent target was set in the Environmental Protection Agency’s budget for fiscal 2010.
In their study, the researchers devised several combinations of steps that United States policymakers might take in trying to address the heat-trapping emissions by the nation’s transportation sector, which consumes 70 percent of the oil used in the United States.
Most of their models assumed an economy-wide carbon dioxide tax starting at $30 a ton in 2010 and escalating to $60 a ton in 2030. In some cases researchers also factored in tax credits for electric and hybrid vehicles, taxes on fuel or both.
In the modeling, it turned out that issuing tax credits could backfire, while taxes on fuel proved beneficial.
On the other hand, if the taxes were used to pay down the deficit… Riiight.
#- Skeptic — The article you linked to desn’t change what I said. The H.R. 6, the 2005 energy bill did give $2.8 billion to oil comapnies in subsidies. But it also raised taxes which gave a net tax increase to the oil companies.
What I said was that the government could take away the subsidies but this would lead to higher fuel prices.
The same bill provided a little over $11 billion dollars to subsidies for nuclear power, energy-efficient cars and buildings, and renewable fuels research.
#25 I’ve never though it was unfair. But I always get pissed off that you guys don’t realize how lucky you are when you start bitching about “how much we have to pay for gas, waaahhh $3/gallon means my kids can’t go to college”.
Everyone else manages with their fuel prices, stop being a country filled with whiny little girls when your gas prices catch up with reality.
There’s a bog difference between the US/Canada and Europe. Europe is a densely populated area, with lots of trains to go between cities.
The USA is only densely populated on the East Coast and near Chicago and LA.
Until someone decides that we can afford to build a lot of train lines, the European transit model won’t work. If you are an Easterner, try (for instance) driving between Denver and Kansas City sometime. There’s a whole lot of nothing but wheat, corn, and cattle out there, with a few small cities in between. Same with much of Texas and the rest of the Inter-mountain West.
Jacking up gas prices with taxes will just cause the US economy to grind to a halt.
#33 You do realize that difference has nothing to do with actual price (reality) but everything to do with difference in taxes – right?
So, before you get pissed off ask yourself who and what you voted for, make your choice and don’t be jealous of “whiny little girls”.
#36MPL Why do some people in the USA keep stating how the world envies them?
I for one do not envy the US or its people. Sometimes I am aware of things to admire and other times there are things that annoy me.
The thing that annoys me and many people is the attitude that “we are different” from the rest of the planet and things that affect 96% of the human race are of no concern to ‘merkins.
Get real. Check out the interests of the biggest names involved in denying the fact of Man Made Climate change. I am not talking about genuine people persuaded by them – like Dvorak & Curry. I am talking about corporations and politicians who would loose out if the world acted to deal with it.
You have attracted to your country, the clever people and skills to find answers to this genuine problem. If you don’t solve it in a way that will suit your country, others will. On the whole, I would prefer it if a western democracy played the biggest part. If you want to leave it to the Chinese and the Indians, don’t expect them to do it in ways that will preserve your way of life.
#31, bobbo… yep… same wavelength, same station… and it is fun to quibble. I’m surprised that I can get a thought across today… I have a bad code. Sinuses trying on dislodge my eyeballs.
re: #32, bac… you’re right… my apology. I read too much into your original post.
Obama said he was OK with higher gas prices, he just wishes they had gone up gradually. He is pushing for cap and trade. After taking office, he cut back on oil drilling.
okay, now that I’ve cooked dinner and fed the family, drained my sinuses into another box of tissue…
bac, your government gave 2.8 billion to ALL oil companies in subsidies, but that is a pittance to what they gave back. Exxon alone paid $116.2 billion in taxes (2008)…. 2.5 times it’s net profit.
I estimate the 2008 taxes paid by the 4 biggest oil companies to be roughly $200 billion. So if you take away that 2.8 billion, I doubt it will affect the price of a gallon of gas by even 2%. It’s also a pittance to put towards renewable energy and energy storage solutions.
Just something to think about.
idiots.
if anyone had half a brain, they’d disband the 4 main ivy league universities.
-s
I live in Germany where the gas is $7 a gallon. It is fine, life goes on. Food is not double the cost (I think it is actually cheaper), and flights are absolutely cheaper than in the US.
Are you people basing your talk on facts or just crap you are making up?
Crap.
#43
WE ARE BASING IT ON WHAT THE corps WILL DO TO US.
Also the fact that MOST corps have consolidated to 1-2 locations in the USA, and everything is shipped from 1 location, insted of Locally..
Meat processing and handling, is shipped to 1-2 locations, then SHIPPED BACK to where it started.
Everything american is steeped in the lifestyle pursuit, the independence of having your very own vehicle. It was great while it was cheap and had no apparent consequences(leaded gasoline). So now your public transportation infrastructures are so reduced it isn’t even an alternative, and since were in crisis there’s no resources to build them up. The worlds oil reserve is ending fast, even if our atmosphere could take it. Trains are cheaper to run than trucks, buses are more efficient than independent vehicles, etc. If you wait like the typical denialist with your head in the sand, your obsession with an impractical lifestyle pursuit is likely to be the end of you.
#25 Eric
Rat colonies! You stupid pile of monkey crap! You deserve to live in the USA! What the hell do you know about Europe!? So smugly convinced of the superiority of your lifestyle – you probably haven’t traveled out of the county they hatched you in!
Thank you Zybch, and the others posting from around the world, for a taste of reality.
= = = = =
# 10 Haunted Sheep:
“[…] The facts are that the 4 largest container ships in the world spew out as much pollution in one month as all the cars on earth in one year. […]” [Citation Needed.]
Raising the gas price to $7/gallon would be great.
Less traffic, shorter commutes, more fuel efficient vehicles, less old people on the roads, less kids on the road, better use of resources.
What’s not to love?
Corporations might even use tele-commuting and tele-conferencing far better.
All upsides and no downsides.
Less oil guzzlers is ok as it will only lead to better and more efficient non polluting technologies in the long run. We need the research and manpower in the “clean” fields. Who knows, maybe Doc had it right all along…MrFusion is real! 🙂
However, the excuses are lame. Save some trees in Brazil if you want to remove CO2. That will do more than raising the prices on gas that so many depend on like drug addicts.
How much of our <$3.00/gal gas is subsidized by the US government now?
So much of our military is devoted to protecting the world's supply of oil, AND WE ARE PAYING FOR IT.
I wouldn't have a problem with paying for our transportation needs from fuel taxes, but they aren't. Roads and road maintainence come from general funds, not transportation taxes. It is time politicians wake up and realize that reducing taxes does not give us a better society, it only gives us deeper debt.
It’s a great way to make driving certain automobiles only affordable by the rich.
Kerry tried pushing this idea in his 2004 campaign.
Just like a liberal. Tax the hell out of people to force them to adjust their behaviors. The people who suffer most are the common people.
At least this won’t be the first tax the Obama Administration has raised on the poor if this goes through. Another broken promise for Hope & Change. 🙂
43, Mike, You forgot to mention that many people commute to work via the Bahnhoff system. Driving a car in Germany can be a luxury given the cost to operate one. America is nowhere close to having a nationwide train system for everyday commuting for most people
#52–Guyver==just like a repuglicant. What is your alternative to long range planning tax policies? By implication you “think” having no/the least amount of tax possible letting “the common man” continue to burn fuel in a wasteful manner until the crises of the shortage hits in spades causing greater shocks than necessary (if they are survived in a meaningful way) because of the lack of foresight.
Yes, like HMyers, you have yours and screw everyone else–then claim you are doing it for the common man. Thats rich. BTW==what do you call only rich people in cars? Thats right, target practice.
53, Bobbo,
How wasteful someone’s life is, is none of your business nor mine.
So how is $7/gal gas a “long term” plan when we have a high unemployment rate? Like a liberal, your priorities are all messed up. Rather than react with such emotion, why not realize that it’s utterly stupid to raise gas to $7 / gal when there is currently no viable long term alternative?
Once an alternative has been realized, then you go and raise taxes on gasoline (if it’s of national importance to do so).
Shoving $7/gal gas down EVERYONE’s throat hurts the poor and middle class. How do you fix that problem? Easy, get the government off of people’s backs.
We differ in principles. You want a nanny state and therefore justify dictating to everyone how they should eat, live, sleep, and probably breed.
We can come to rational viable solutions without killing our economy which is what you’re essentially suggesting.
51, Mr. Fusion,
If you believe the reason we got involved was over oil, Bush Sr. sent troops into Iraq to keep the price of oil high.
Reducing taxes but not reducing your spending will lead to what you’re talking about. Kill off entitlement programs and reduce spending and you may find that it works wonders. It’s what down-to-Earth people call living within your means.
Yes!
Guyver,
“How wasteful someone’s life is, is none of your business nor mine”
Oh how I love it when people use this stupid statement without realizing wtf they are saying in the first place.
You will mind IF it eventually affects you. For example, it is my right to drive around and around your house with gaseous, deadly fumes and you can’t do sht about it. It is my right to crap in the street and you don’t have to say a thing about it. It is our right to screw up your city, your nation and eventually our world while you sit at home happy and thinking none of this sht is your problem.
So do what you keep preaching. Stay home, stay out of people’s lives and stfu. Why are you even in here commenting if you don’t care? Honestly, the nerve. Fck off and let us do/say what we need to.
Wow, that sounds like a great idea.
Until all of the trucking companies, who are already struggling, go bankrupt and our just-in-time food system fails for lack of viable alternatives. It’s not like railroads service the local groceries after all.
So, besides those minor “mass starvation” and “collapse of society” issues, sounds like a great plan!
It’s about time the cost of producing a barrel as well as the cost of burning a barrel of oil gets reflected at the pump.
Neither of those ends are reflected in today’s prices.
(1) The cost of military presence in the persian gulf is not reflected in the cost producing a barrel of oil – ADD IT.
(2) Polluting the environment has been free. It is time to make it not free – ADD IT.
If you want to haul your fat republican ass to the mall in a Hummer. It should cost you double.
#- Skeptic — When I read the data, I came to the same thought. The government could give the $2.8 billion something else without affecting the oil companies. Even though $2.8 billion is small for the big oil companies, it might be large enough to kick off a modern rail system.
What is interesting is that Americans will spend hours a day inside a car wasting time but when alternatives are proposed they whine because it does not include the automobile.
Which is better; a 30 minute train ride or a two hour automobile ride?
#58–Lie==calm down, breath in and out, take several deep breaths. Ok? You were able to do that because the air you breath is not filled with products of oil combustion. Yet, you argue for your bright pink lungs to be turned black so that what? So that people can be “free?” Heh, heh. F*cktarded.
#54–Guyver==almost reasonable. The LIEBERTARIAN stance, not using the liebertarian gibberish. Just the straw man switcheroo as if anyone but your normal audience of idiots would not notice. “How wasteful someone’s life is, is none of your business nor mine.”===Not so homo retardicus. You got yours, screw everyone else eh? #57-TheOne gave you a good thumping on that. Sorry LIEBERTARIAN but you are not an island, you are not alone, your actions are not in a vacuum. Your argument is one made by the one who does the damage, not by the one who suffers the trauma. RETARDICUS to the degree you actually think what you post. If you want to act like an animal, you should go live like an animal, by yourself in a cage separated from the rest of the tribe. ((Heavy analogy//off)).
Come now bobo, let’s try to be slightly civil here. For one, I did not lie; high fuel prices nearly bankrupted the truckers back in 08, and they are still on the verge. And, we do not have an alternative to trucking in the US for food and goods delivery. I get the impression that you live in europe, so perhaps you don’t know, but we have largely neglected, and in some cases actively destroyed, our rail and public transport system here in the US. Due to the foolish long distance just-in-time food system we are saddled with, jacking fuel prices up that much before we have an alternative to cars and trucks would result in a terrible mass starvation the likes of which has not been seen since the China famine, and I doubt that the world economy would handle the complete collapse of the 1# national economy well. . . .