Friday morning February 26th, 60 representatives from the Secular Coalition of America met with White House staff to discuss three issues of concern to it’s members which consists of non-religious Americans. Those three issues included protecting children from religiously motivated neglect and abuse, ending proselytizing in the military and working to ensure that various faith based initiatives don’t cause religious discrimination to individuals in need.
While that agenda seems fairly benign and something most individuals regardless of faith or lack thereof would agree with, that didn’t stop the right wing smear machine from spreading fear and lies about the meeting. Apparently the idea that non-religious Americans should be treated with the same respect all other citizens expect from our government is enough to cause right wing hysteria. Sean Hannity of Fox News was found to have made at least 4 factual errors in his quick statement about the meeting falsely claiming that this meeting in some way meant that the nonreligious were getting special treatment from the Obama adminstration. Sean’s statement was nowhere near as inflammatory as what occurred in the right wing blogosphere, which basically labeled the groups participating in the Coalition as hate groups. For perspective on this issue, it is important to realize that one of the groups runs a summer camp and another one is the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers.
Religious leaders meet with the president all the time to talk about their agenda’s. Atheist leaders have the same right to do so. Simple as that.
Obama then went to the zoo to meet with the lions. This is not good.
So let me see, these guys want to:
A) End the separation of Church and State,
B) End freedom of speech in the military, and
C) Eliminate all federal funding to religious organizations.
To anyone who knows how to think and read, this is entirely obvious.
I happen to agree with C), but A) and B) is never going to happen.
“There has been a movement toward theocracy in America that is too often overlooked,”
That’s funny, seems they want to simply replace one theocracy with another.
The willful ignorance of people is absolutely astounding. Secular does not automatically mean atheist! Yes, all atheists are by default secularist, but not all secularists are atheists. There are many religious secularists; they believe government has no business with religion and vice versa.
Now I’m waiting for some moronic response from Dallas, Phydeau, noname, or the like about A) or B).
Critical thinking is not their strong point. They will never see that there already are legal recourses for both A) and B) without further destruction of our individual liberties.
They will never see that this is a straw man argument. That this is their shallow attempt to replace a boogyman religious theocracy with their Atheist theocracy. A theocracy with less personal freedoms, a theocracy where the federal government has far more power in our personal lives, reminding me distinctly of Communist China. The parallels are astounding.
They will also never recognize that my time to more valuable to waste arguing with zealots.
@#1 :”Religious leaders meet with the president all the time to talk about their agenda’s. Atheist leaders have the same right to do so. Simple as that.” – Name domestic religious groups allowed a meeting with Obama in White House…
Problem is that Obama is actively boycotting every typical religious activity of previous Presidents, despite election process claim (more like chest-thumping) that he is Christian…
Meeting with Atheists just underscores this political “I am whatever you want me to be, just elect me” BS.
“labeled the groups participating in the Coalition as hate groups” – some are and were not told to stay out of White House. Equivalent would be religious President allowing meeting with Christian groups, including say KKK rep’…
#5 I have no interest in having atheists influence government any more than having the Christian Taliban influence my government.
I see the atheist meeting with the president as equal opportunity bullshit from fringe groups. You got a problem with equal opportunity?
Latest Foxymoron: FACT. CHECKING.
#7
Strawman agruemnt. Atheists don’t want to tell you what you should/shouldn’t believe. On the contrary, you should be free to believe whatever the hell you want. Atheists, don’t want ANYONE telling anyone else, especially by government means, what they should believe, which is what the evangelical right are dying to do, via various forms of legislation.
“right-wing smear machine” and
“right wing hysteria”
are both redundant.
The use of the words “Fox News” and “facts” in the same sentence is laughable.
#9: Right on the money. The appropriate phrase from the Bill of Rights:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . .”
Which means, no establishment of a specific religion by any government, and no restriction on exercising one’s religious beliefs, or lack thereof.
11, Separation of Church and State was originally a one-way street to prevent a Church of the United States much like the Church of England which the forefathers despised.
The forefathers had no problems with religions influencing our government. They just didn’t want government influencing religions.
In the last 50 or so years, the separation of church and state has been reinterpreted to be a two-way street.
Religious people (well lets be honest, Christians) think that non-religious people are “evil” (lack of a better word) and want to make others become evil. That’s the basis of their hysteria.
They assume, like practically all religions do, that secular people want to convert people into be non-religious. But atheists don’t go on missions proselytizing to not be religious. Religion IT SELF does that for most people already.
🙂
#13, I am glad you are the expert in ALL religious people. I am also glad to hear that the Muslims do not think that non-religious people are evil. All we have to do here in the US is become a country of Atheists and then all Muslims will start to love us. Its a good thing you have it all figured out.
But seriously, I am Christian, and you know what I don’t think you are “evil”. Religion is a deeply personal thing, and you should be able to worship (or lack their of) any way you want, as long as you aren’t infringing on anyone eles’s personal rights I just don’t care. Don’t mistake apathy for hate.
And you know what? I think you might find most Christians feel the same way, if you just open your eyes, instead of just accepting what the media, and your local atheist sponsor tells you. In short you don’t have to be religious to hate a group, thats a very human condition and transcends all beliefs.
Ah_Yea said,
So let me see, these guys want to:
B) End freedom of speech in the military,
It is more than just “freedom of speech” when it comes to the military. There’s been at least one case where soldiers claimed that superior officers pressured them to convert and told them that if they didn’t convert their military careers would be limited. http://npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4630490&ps=rs
#12 how can it be a one way street? Religions influencing Government creates exactly what you say our forefathers didn’t want to happen. By allowing any religion to influence them they are in effect becoming a Government sponsored/approved religion
Does anyone expect anything other than fear, trembling and bumble-footed lies from rightwing talking heads and religious nutballs.
Personally, I don’t appreciate these paranoid right-wing attacks against me and other people with Atheist beliefs. Talk about intolerance!!!
@12 Guyver, it looks like you know your history like you (probably) know your ass, you know it’s there, but you never stick your finger in it…
16, A lot of what goes on today is people try to take a literal reading of the words of our forefathers and thus reinterpret their original intent out of context (i.e. All Men are Created Equal, General Welfare, etc.).
If you read your U.S. history, our forefathers ultimately did not care if religion had influences on our government. They fully expected such a thing to happen. The forefathers did not see any reason to be alarmed (likewise if our general populous became overwhelmingly atheist overnight).
What concerned the forefathers was government sponsoring a national church (which would mean that other people not of the national religion would be harassed and pressured to join against their free will like the people in England when dealing with the Church of England). The forefathers did not want this to happen therefore there was no establishment of a Church of the United States. Hence the separation of Church and State.
Those who wish to adhere to the newer reinterpretation of those words of the last 50 or so years, will insist that separation is a two way street.
It’s pretty simple to understand. I don’t see where the confusion is.
And for the record, I’m not religious.
Yeah, this is CRAZY. What nuts. Only people who believe in the magic beings of Zeus, Thor, Quin Yin, Vishnu, Jehovah, Allah, Jesus, Isis, The Great Raven, and Apollo should be able to visit the President.
I mean having rational people who don’t believe in magical invisible people talking to the President, can you IMAGINE that…crazy!
The difference between religious people and atheists proselytizing is that atheists think they are really, really, really right whereas religious types only think they are really, really correct. Also, the atheists would dearly love to force their minority opinion on the masses if they could.
RBG
19, A,
Opinions are like a55holes. Everybody’s got one and they all stink.
However, I wasn’t stating an opinion.
Remember, an atheist and a devout true believer are nearly identical.
A devout true believer knows there have been 192 major religions, and 191 of them are made up of untrue tribal superstitions and fictional gods made up by man.
An atheist knows there have been 192 major religions, and 192 of them are made up of untrue tribal superstitions and fictional gods made up by man.
See, nearly identical!
24, You forgot to mention both of them also proselytize their beliefs.
#22 Spoken like a true religious fundie. As incredible as it may seem to you, RBG, there are people in the world not desperate to convert everyone they meet to their own religious beliefs.
Ponder that for a moment, but not too long, your head may explode.
The atheists I know just want to be left alone.
… of course I’ve heard of militant atheists too, and yes they can be militant. Most of them from what I’ve heard are former fundies. So the religion is gone, but the fundamentalist spirit remains…
#25 The difference is the atheists have ‘facts’ and reality on their side. You know, the science that ALL religious nuts us when they feel like it, but pretend doesn’t exist when they don’t like it. They all use computer, geo-sync satellites, to beam down microwave carrier signals to their digital TVs to tell them what the magical being in the sky wants. How about STOP using since and just pray your satellites in to space.
The magic believers just have stories about invisible gods who live in the sky and tell us not to eat bacon, but golly, can’t be seen on videotape or ever come down to earth anymore. Remember EVERY religion had gods that did BIG BIG BIG visible things on earth all the time, magical otherwise ‘impossible’ things. Sea’s that magically part, and then destroy entire armies, Zeus created half god children than ran around in THIS world battling magical beasts, Thor killed giants HERE…except not that we have video cameras, ALL the gods from EVERY religions have mysteriously gone into hidden. I’m not just picking on Christians, I mean ALL of them. The unicorns, giants, witches, demons, half-gods, ALL gone. Golly, what a coincidence. It’s as if stupid made up superstitions are just…made up.
>atheists would dearly love to force their minority opinion on the masses if they could
Indeed – why is there no separation of atheism and state?
When I fly I have no choice but to pay for government required atheist radar.
It should be my choice that the pilot and ATC to turn off radar and trust the force.
#28 That reminds me. I can’t wait to see the remake of Clash of the Titans (summer)!
Really, I don’t mind religions. Everyone should deal with the unknown in their own way. Human psyche is wired in needing to cope with this.
The real issue is keeping organized religion out of government, which is another human attribute – the desire for power and control over others.