It had long been rumoured that the Polish-born pontiff, who died five years ago, engaged in acts of penance and self-flagellation. The practice has now been confirmed by Monsignor Slawomir Oder, the Vatican “postulator” who has the task of reviewing John Paul’s life and preparing a case for him being made a saint.
In the new book, “Why he’s a saint“, Msgr Oder writes: “As members of the Pope’s close entourage heard with their own ears, Karol Wojtyla used to flagellate himself.
“In his wardrobe, in between all his robes, a special trouser belt hung on a coat hanger, which he used as a whip. He always took it with him when he went to Castel Gandolfo (the traditional summer residence of the popes outside Rome).”
In November a Polish nun claimed that when she stayed at Castel Gandolfo she often heard John Paul whipping himself.
“Several times he would put himself through bodily penance,” said Tobiana Sobodka, a nun from the Sacred Heart of Jesus order.
“We would hear it – we were in the next room at Castel Gandolfo. You could hear the sound of the blows when he flagellated himself…”
Har!
Self flagellation is the mark of mental illness, not that being Pope isn’t proof enough. Need more to be a Saint.
Self flagellation must be a Catholic thing. I find it strange since Jesus took all the beating and suffering that we will ever need when he was beaten by Roman soldiers and crucified for the sins of the world. Why anyone would need to whip themselves when Jesus covered all that for us.
“But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed.” Isaiah 53:5
As for sainthood, all Christians are saints according to Protestants. According to Wikipedia:
“In many Protestant churches, the word “saint” is used more generally to refer to anyone who is a Christian. This is similar in usage to Paul’s numerous references in the New Testament of the Bible.[25] In this sense, anyone who is within the Body of Christ (i.e., a professing Christian) is a ‘saint’ because of their relationship with Christ Jesus. Because of this, many Protestants consider prayers to the saints to be idolatry or even necromancy. Dead Christians are awaiting resurrection, and are not able to do anything for the living saint.
Within some Protestant traditions, “saint” is also used to refer to any born-again Christian. Many emphasise the traditional New Testament meaning of the word, preferring to write “saint” to refer to any believer, in continuity with the doctrine of the priesthood of all believers.”
Big deal. I self flagellate all the time. I don’t use a belt but I do make a considerable amount of noise. Does that mean I get to be a saint? Maybe if I flagellate even more then I … what? Really? I thought it …
Never mind.
#3 Be careful or you will go blind.
Self flagellation, Without sex in your life the only sexual outlet is wet-dreams or Self flagellation. The will typically beat themselves till ejaculation, this way you get your sex fix and your guilt out of the way at the same time, And can be called a saint.
There must be a sound business opportunity here. Something for Catholics in the same vein as rubber snakes for Southern Baptists.
Got it, set up a cart outside the biggest cathedral in your town offering replica leather belts. Pope-lashers. “You, too, can be as sanctified as John-Paul!”
Whatever turns your crank. Just remember, this is the same guy that thought he had the authority to tell women what they could do with their bodies.
Faith is good. Religion, however, is so easily twisted.
Another religious crazy woo hoo moment, brought to you by the IBF (imaginary being followers).
#4: The Pope just did it till he needed glasses.
If there’s a God, he’s probably shaking his divine head at the things people do because they’re weird.
Seriously, the Catholics contain small religious groups who flagellate themselves as “penitents.” The Spanish name for these religious groups is “penitentes,” but these groups are are not just found in Spanish speaking areas. The practice of whipping oneself in general is just wrong…
Why “Har”?
#8–qb==that must be that early training you can’t shake. Care to inform us of that fine distinction between faith and religion? As in===what other fields are faith relied on rather than informed observation? That early childhood twisting is a bitch ain’t it?
#10–Pedro==more info please. How did the Pope “help” to bring down the wall? Same way he helped releave world hunger?
#12–Jim==”Har” is how to represent laughing at comedic material. What else would you call anyone flagellating themselves? A deeply felt moment of faith and conviction???===HAR!!!!!!!!
I’ll stop at 3 comments so as not to wander into PedroLand.
Self-flagellation? Hey, I didn’t vote Obama.
RBG
Benjamin, do you really believe there was a Jesus Christ? do you also believe in Santa Claus, the Easter bunny and leprechauns?
The whole story of Christ is a tale that had been repeated countless times for ages before they repeated it again but replaced the main character…again. It’s a fairy story.
#16–Now Father==if Pedro can believe TODAY that the Pope played any “real” role in the removal of the Berlin Wall, you can’t hardly blame Benji for being retarded. Look at his role models.
In fact, I think Benji should be a saint too given the depth of his historical appreciation===just like Pedro. Lets make Pedro a saint too.
Just keep both of them from teaching History.
Lech Walesa, Pope John Paul II, and the fall of the iron curtain
http://tinyurl.com/yh24p88
16. Yes, Father, “there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy.”
The Catholic Church wasn’t satisfied with inventing hypocrisy – they went on to invent the non sequitur.
#10
I was there when the Berlin wall fell, and I assure you it was all David Hasselhoff.
#18–YHW==Nice link. I agree the Pope supported Lech and Lech did everything else. At least this Pope did not enter into secret agreements to let Russia do as it wanted to. I guess that is help of a sort.
Can we all agree that “people” had little to do with this wave of history. Sorry Kiddies. It was economics. Poor Old USSR was rotten to the core due to bad economics. Reagan caused the final bricks to be loaded on that camel but most of the harm was caused by lack of free markets.
Too bad the USA didn’t learn the lesson from the collapse of the USSR==as we seem to be following the same course.
The Pope?????——HAR!!!!!!!!
#18,
In 30 years you will probably be able to replace the pope with Osama Bin Laden in that article and give him credit for the fall of the American Empire.
That doesn’t mean he had anything to do with it, only that it was ready to fall, a situation that the Pope himself acknowledged.
Pope defined:
Holy rolling nut-job hypocrite.
That ’bout sums it up.
I do believe there IS a Jesus Christ. Christ died for the sins of the world so that no one who believes him has to go to Hell. Faith in Christ alone is enough to save you from eternal damnation. He was born on Christmas (probably not on December 25th), lived a sinless life, was crucified, died, and was buried in a tomb for three days, and then he rose from the dead on Easter.
I do not believe in Santa Claus or the Easter bunny, nor do I believe in leprechauns.
# 16 Father said, on January 28th, 2010 at 10:38 am
“Benjamin, do you really believe there was a Jesus Christ?”
I am a saint. See my explanation on post #2 or look up the relvent section of Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint#Protestantism Protestants believe that all Christians are saints because of their relationship with Christ Jesus.
bobbo, the devout evangelical anti-theist said, on January 28th, 2010 at 10:48 am
[snip part where bobbo was just being insulting]
“In fact, I think Benji should be a saint too given the depth of his historical appreciation”
# 26 Benjamin said, “He was born on Christmas (probably not on December 25th), lived a sinless life, was crucified, died, and was buried in a tomb for three days, and then he rose from the dead on Easter.”
But then he saw his own shadow and all the disciples knew there would be eight more weeks of winter…
Hey, most catholics do not believe Jesus Paid It All.. they gots to add to it! Bring on the whipping!
It’s a basic human impulse to do ritual suffering.
These days it’s called “detoxing” but it’s the same as exorcism or penitence.
#18, RBG,
Unfortunately, blogs usually do a poor job of reflecting actuality. While John Paul had very little to do with the Berlin wall, Walesa was not involved.
There were several causes for the 1989 revolutions that swept Eastern Europe.
First, there was resentment of Soviet occupation. No one likes the idea of foreign troops walking down their streets. Especially when they expect you to learn their language. Several uprisings had already taken place, including Hungary in 1956 and Prague in 1968. Polish discontent was little different than others nations.
East Germany suffered quite badly under the Soviet invasion at the end of WWII. The local population remembered the atrocities.
Second was the increased consumer products available in the West. Western mass media showed those behind the Iron Curtain utopian Western households with fancy electronic products, big flashy cars, and an abundance of rich foods. Besides the mass media, samples often showed up. Two huge examples were Levi jeans and Beatle records.
Third was poor planning. Decisions on crops were too often made by those with no or little comprehension of agriculture. Manufacturing couldn’t get raw materials. Transportation fell apart from a lack of equipment that couldn’t tolerate the poor roads. Production demands and lack of proper equipment and materials led to decreasing quality.
Fourth was a drought and blight that plagued the USSR agriculture. Most Iron Curtain countries depended upon the USSR for staples to feed the populous cities.
All of these (and others) led to unrest in all of the Soviet bloc. It was the strength of the Central Governments that kept the lids on. By the time Poland relented some and allowed some democracy the USSR was having its own problems.
East Germany was perhaps the strongest government. The opening of the Berlin Wall was totally unexpected but had more to do with family ties between East and West Berlin. West Berlin TV and radio broadcast into the heart of East Germany. They showed a peaceful people with well built cars, full stomachs, good, well fitting cloths, enjoying the luxuries of life. The thumb of the Soviets was missing. It was only a matter of time.
BUT, Walesa was little known in East Germany. He and his revolution was not discussed as that talk was liable to have the Stasi at your door. His influence was very minimal. The Pope also held little political sway as he tried not to rock the boat. The Fall of the Wall was a local event.
Mr. Fusion,
I’m no expert like you but I do know that many experts give credit to both the Catholics (in Poland) and the Muslims (in Afghanistan) with the fall of European Communism. The atheistic communists always viewed religion as a major threat and and it seems like history proved them right.
I don’t understand why you would dismiss this, no one says that any SINGLE think brought them down. Are you missing the forest for the trees?
LOLs. I’m a great advocate of self flagellation and think it should be encouraged amongst the devout. Oh yes, most especially the devout. In fact, I think it should be exclusively be practised by the those idiots who think that they can somehow develop a closer bond to their imaginary friend through self harm because all else has failed. Well done. Keep going. If your whip wears out, I’ll buy you another one.