Reports the Daily Mail:
The bitter winter afflicting much of the Northern Hemisphere is only the start of a global trend towards cooler weather that is likely to last for 20 or 30 years, say some of the world’s most eminent climate scientists.
Their predictions – based on an analysis of natural cycles in water temperatures in the Pacific and Atlantic oceans – challenge some of the global warming orthodoxy’s most deeply cherished beliefs, such as the claim that the North Pole will be free of ice in summer by 2013.
According to the US National Snow and Ice Data Centre in Colorado, Arctic summer sea ice has increased by 409,000 square miles, or 26 per cent, since 2007 – and even the most committed global warming activists do not dispute this.
My crackpot can beat the snot out of your crackpot.
Cherman Headlines Of The Future:
Final, No-Doubt-About-It, Absolute Proof That Global Warming Is A Fucking Crock
I’m Telling You That There Is No Such Thing As Global Warming
Global Warming: Myth or Fable?
Scientists Are All Crooks
Al Gore Doesn’t Know A Fucking Thing
Cherman Given Nobel Prize For Literature
etc.
Global warming activists do dispute that the ice is growing. You see even though there is more ice than a few years ago, it is still one of the lowest ice levels on record, and doesn’t change the long term trend of declining ice.
Of course, they fail to notice the logic that this means you have to say ice is declining up until it recovers to the mean level. If it never recovers, to that level, and just stays at the same amount every year, then you can every year say the ice is declining.
This is seriously the logic used by scientists at RealClimate and elsewhere, and it gets parroted by so many that the skeptics are all wrong.
I read in an article in the National Enquirer that aliens where doing naughty things with Tom Cruise. Having read both the National Enquirer and the Daily Mail I am more inclined to believe the Tom Cruise story …
“In fact, the Met still asserts we are in the midst of an unusually warm winter — as one of its staffers sniffily protested in an internet posting to a newspaper last week: “This will be the warmest winter in living memory, the data has already been recorded. ”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/dominic_lawson/article6982310.ece
@Dennis #28, you have it correct. Man does what he will, driven by money, or more correctly power. It’s crazy that so many of us think we have no impact on “the earth” that requires any change. Wipe out species on land and see so numerous we think we can’t ever deplete them. Cut down trees, pollute air, but worse, fresh water. But argue like crazy about “global warming” Why, because some one the “evidence” to make laws that will make someone rich. Or really, shift the richness. Because right now, the polluter’s are getting rich by not having to be clean.
OMG “Global Colding” run and hides in cellar.
Re: Dennis: “Regardless of what we cannot see, WE CAN SEE trash, we can see the water being polluted, we can watch the smoke billow from the towers and exhausts, YET WE DO NOTHING other than pay lip service to all this crap.”
That is simply not true at all. For as long as industry has been dumping their byproducts into our water and land, WE as a society have been correcting their irresponsibility. There are thousands of laws governing where and how much pollution can be generated and the restrictions grow tighter every year. You can’t produce something without some byproduct… even food. As a society we are constantly trying to find the right balance between benefits and costs. To say we have done nothing is simply ridiculous.
The biggest error that AGW pundits are making on DU is that climate change is about pollution. IT IS NOT. It’s only about CO2… a nutrient for all plant life on earth… and whether human CO2 contribution is enough to NEGATIVELY affect our habitat through global warming and/or climate change.
So don’t muddy the waters concerning AGW, andy more than they already are.
MikeN, remove the www in your links, and they will work.
If they are long like yours in post #38, go to this site and it will automatically shorten it. http://bit.ly/
Corrected link for your post #38:
http://bit.ly/4INi6d
Hmmm. These “eminent climate scientists” seem to have overlooked the fact that much of the Far North was way warmer than normal this winter up until last week.
Go back to reading the sports pages or watching Fox Snooze, folks.
The researcher “quoted” in the Mail article – Mojib Latif – says the Mail is full of shite!
They misquoted his research and entirely missed the point of his work – which relates to better measuring phenomenon associated with climate change.
http://tinyurl.com/urfullofit
So, it doesn’t matter if the initial link sucks; so does the article and associated lies.
Buffalo, New York: no colder than usual.
Canada’s Top Ten Weather Stories for 2009 article strikes me as consistent with Global Climate Change. 2009 was slightly warmer and drier than average in Canada; the news is how extreme the weather was, far moreso than in your old-fashioned average year.
The Arctic Sea Ice thing is a red herring because meltwater (from melting glaciers in Greenland, in the Arctic islands and from sea ice itself) floats on denser sea water. Since salty water freezes less readily than meltwater, an increase in the area of the Arctic ice cover is just as easily evidence of global warming. When I see reference to that, I know I’m not merely dealing with skepticism, but either stupidity or willful misrepresentation.
Very interesting though about sunspot cycles. If that pans out, just in time to save us for a few decades, is it evidence that there is a caring God, willing to give us an extra chance? But the kind of people who believe in a God are often the kind of people who disbelieve in anthropogenic climate change. How will that play in the metaphorical Deep South.
#41, Skeptic,
The biggest error that AGW pundits are making on DU is that climate change is about pollution. IT IS NOT. It’s only about CO2… a nutrient for all plant life on earth…
And the next time someone is drowning we can tell them “water is necessary for life”.
When a house burns we can tell the occupants “fire is what sets man apart from the animals, get out your marshies”.
For the next time a 300 lb patient’s heart is blocked with cholesterol we can tell him “hey food is required to live”.
If boosting the clock cycle of your processor by 10% improves performance dramatically, go for 50% and enjoy a new world. (BTW, CO2 has increased by over 50% over the past 150 years.)
Shall we continue with the analogies?
#46, jb,
The Arctic Sea Ice thing is a red herring because meltwater (from melting glaciers in Greenland, in the Arctic islands and from sea ice itself) floats on denser sea water.
Not quite. Fresh water mixes quite readily with salt water on the surface. Thermal layers form boundaries that hinder mixing with deeper water.
The Arctic ice cap is receding. While it has refrozen, that is “new ice”. Older ice is stronger and melts slower. The health of the ice pack is measured by size and age of the ice. at current rates of melting, it is expected that the North Pole will be ice free during the summer in the near future.
The ice pack is important for the albedo effect. That is the amount of sunlight reflected back into space compared to the amount of sunlight (energy) absorbed. Snow and ice reflect much more sunlight than does water. Since the Arctic gets more sunlight in the summer, that is when the lack of an ice pack becomes more important.
Ocean currents are dependent upon the temperatures found in the various regions they originate or quit in. The Humbolt Current is very important in the Grand Banks / North Atlantic fisheries.
moss, I had already read the article you posted. Mojib Latif is probably and afraid for his job on the IPCC. Can you imagine the flack he would get? I discounted his excuse when he said “There is no doubt within the scientific community that we are affecting the climate, that the climate is changing and responding to our emissions of greenhouse gases.”
No doubt eh? Where has he been for the last 10 years?
re: Fusion: “And the next time someone is drowning we can tell them “water is necessary for life”.
So you say water becomes pollution when someone is drowning in it? And what if someone isn’t actually drowning in it, but a group of alarmists are standing around screaming that there is?
That nonsense just supports what I have said.
(BTW, CO2 is the same nowas it has been on a regular time scale of 100,000 years or so.)
They’ve been spewing this bullcrap for decades…
http://denisdutton.com/newsweek_coolingworld.pdf
#50, Skeptic,
So you say water becomes pollution when someone is drowning in it?
No. Just as CO2 is a plant nutrient, water is necessary for life. Are you suggesting CO2 is a pollutant?
I guess that is your point after all.
(BTW, CO2 is the same now as (sp) it has been on a regular time scale of 100,000 years or so.)
Yup. Historically CO2 has averaged under 240 ppm with peaks of around 300ppm. It is currently over 380ppm. Check out your own graph.
Add all the Co2, that was stored in fossil fuels, released into the environment and subtract the amount of vegetation that would have absorbed the CO2 we will only gain. But the deniers (normal word for “skeptics”) don’t believe this.
#54, Denier,
So without the benefit of going back in time and taking actual measurements, there is no way of knowing if the current spike is within the norm.
But, but, it was YOU that posted the graph I referred to in #53. Geeze, besides suggesting water is a pollutant you now discount the very evidence you submitted. No wonder you’re in denial.
I would like to think those who posted good links.
#5 Your facts are wrong. I’ll settle for this one: The Greenland colony was established and prospered during a warm phase and ended when the little ice age. The reasons why ought to be obvious.
#8 I would say you summed the situation up rather well.
#55, Fusion, I can’t help it if you are unable to grasp that there is a pattern of CO2 increases throughout history, and that we are in one now. There is nothing Wrong with the graph, as it has all available data that we can determine. That doesn’t make it complete by any stretch of the imagination. The blip at the end will be averaged out as time passes, just like all the other peaks.
When you deteriorate to name calling, I know that you are backed into a corner, and have essentially conceded your point.
#58, Denier,
First you claimed water is a pollutant, now you claim an unprecedented 50% rise in CO2 “will average out”. Do you have any evidence you won’t deny later to back that up?
When you deteriorate to name calling, I know that you are backed into a corner, and have essentially conceded your point.
I haven’t posted something and then denied what was posted. You’re in denial, plain and simple.
“The deniers think…”
Ahem! We are debunkers, not deniers.
Besides, it _WAS_ very cold this week so a new ice age is the sky-is-falling scenario du jour.
Don’t worry, this summer global warming will win the day.
Just remember, whatever happens, it is your fault.
#60, somebody,
“The deniers think…”
Ahem! We are debunkers, not deniers.
Besides, it _WAS_ very cold this week so a new ice age is the sky-is-falling scenario du jour.
Only the deniers haven’t debunked anything. They have to resort to lies and fabricated evidence to make a point.
So many deniers love to slam Al Gore for popularizing the threat yet have no problem with antics like this.
I would really like to see some honest evidence discounting AGW.
#63, Cherman / pedro,
Your link is the epitome of the denier arguments.