We’re no different. With all the talk about the underwear bomber and other terrorists, is there any serious discussion about why terrorists want to attack us? Could it be things like taking their oil, having the CIA teach torture tactics to friendly tyrants, imposing our values, starting wars and so on?
The question we have to ask ourselves is this: If anybody treated us like we’re treating the people in Gaza, what would we do?
We don’t want to go there, do we? And because we don’t, we make it our business not to see, hear or think about how, indeed, we are treating the people in Gaza.
All these shocked dignitaries, all these reports, these details, these numbers – thousands of destroyed this and tens of thousands of destroyed that. Rubble, sewage, malnutrition, crying babies, humanitarian crises – who can keep up? Who cares? They did it to themselves. Where to for lunch?
IT’S NOT that we can’t imagine life in Gaza. It’s that we are determined not to try to imagine. If we did, we might not stop there. Next we might try to imagine what it would be like if our country were in the condition in which we left Gaza. And sooner or later we might try to imagine what we would do if we were living over here like they’re living over there.
Or not even what we would do, just what we would think – about the people, about the country, that did that to us and that wouldn’t even allow us to begin to recover after the war was over. That blockaded our borders and allowed in only enough supplies to keep us at subsistence level, to prevent starvation and mass epidemics.
I don’t see any rich Arab countries rushing in to help the Palestinians. Maybe you are just asking the wrong question.
It’s about time someone in Israel said this. The Palestinian people are fighting the injustice the only way they can.
The Arab countries don’t rush in to help because the Israeli treatment of the Palestinian’s make Israel look bad, except that the story is distorted in a Jewish dominated US and Canadian press. That and political parties aren’t prepared to piss off 5% of the electorate which shields Israel further.
What is not noted is the settlements take over 90% of the water available in Gaza while they sit on property stolen from Palestinian land owners. This is nothing less than slow genocide being practiced by the one nation on earth that should know better.
Having been there and seen for myself the difference between the Israelis and the Palestinians, I can attest that yes, this is slow genocide. And the neo-con supporters, such as #1, Dr. Dodd, don’t understand THEY are the problem and the cause.
Every time aid to help the Palestinians has improved the infrastructure, the Israelis destroy it.
#3-Canuck-The Arab countries don’t rush in to help because the Israeli treatment of the Palestinian’s make Israel look bad
Your explanation condemns the rich Arab countries for purposely allowing the Palestinians to suffer. What makes it more horrific is they allow them to suffer for propaganda purposes.
Who are the real monsters in this scenario?
#5 Wow. Now that’s some world-class BS, Dodd. Who is abusing the Palestinians in Gaza? Who’s destroying their buildings, blockading their borders, taking their water? Not rich arab countries. Israel.
Why isn’t anyone asking the logical question, “Why are the people of Gaza being robbed blind by their own leaders who pocket hundreds of millions..if not billions of dollars…instead of using that money to help themselves? We know the reason why. This isn’t a problem of Israel. It’s the problem of these Arabs who want to wipe Israel and Jews off the face of the Earth. It’s just that simple.
#6-Phydeau
Did you ever wonder why the Palestinians were kicked out of every Arab nation?
Israel gave them Gaza… a homeland… and what did they do? They immediately began sending rockets into Israeli population centers. Mass murder is how they thanked Israel.
The Palestinians have earned the reputation of never missing an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
It is hard for a fair minded westerner to see a civilized way forward, because there isn’t one. In areas of Israel where western military observers are monitoring and reporting Israeli Army and Jewish settler ground hostilities against unarmed civilians, they stopped it. The Gaza is an exclusion area for western military observers.
Why doesn’t Egypt open the Rafah crossing that they control?
Dodd, there is blood on the hands of both Israelis and Palestinians. But you can toe the wingnut line and pretend the Israelis are innocent victims, if you want. Meanwhile, the bloodshed continues.
#12-Phydeau-Meanwhile, the bloodshed continues.
The bloodshed continues… brilliant! I had forgotten what a amazing grasp of the obvious you possess. I bet you are a Harvard Graduate.
The bloodshed continues… WOW! You have missed your true calling as a member of the Obama administration.
The bloodshed continues… Yes, definitely Obama Czar material.
I am simply underwhelmed.
Phydeau I love how your measured, and balanced response “Both sides share the blame” was met with “Crazy one sided lefty”
Dr Dodd, you’re abolutely right. But Phydeau’s right too. The Isralis haven’t done themselves any favors, especially lately.
The Israeli occupation and treatment of Palestinians is the biggest gift the kleptocrats and theocrats that run the Arab and Persian states ever received.
They use it to keep their own restless populations distracted. They use it as the excuse for poverty and the lack of freedom and opportunity at home.
Solving this matter is the LAST thing they want. That is why this is still going on for 70+years. That is why Palestinians are not allowed to leave their ghettos in Lebanon. That is why they are not allowed to cross from Gaza into Egypt. That is why they are treated like third class citizens in all Arab nations.
That is why every time Palestine and Israel get close to an agreement, they finance some Islamic nutter to go literally blow things up.
The Palestinians are being used by their so-called-friends. They have been tricked into using tactics over the decades that have left them with no legitimate friends. They are so blinded by their own rage that they can’t step back and see this.
Israel is not without blame either. They turn a blind eye to what their own extremist are doing to the Palestinian lands and people. Gaza has degenerated into the world’s largest open-air prison in everything but name.
They are both semitic peoples. This is simplistic but perhaps they are two sides of the same coin. Somehow they must deserve each other.
#3 said “Jewish dominated US and Canadian press.” In the Army the common expression was “Pull your head out of your ___” Most of the media outlets are controlled by Rupert and corporations.
Good luck to both sides.
#14 Congrats, Dodd, you get the Deliberately Dense Award for the day.
Let me spell it out for you, spoon feed you the obvious: As long as people support Israel in pretending to be 100% innocent in this affair, the bloodshed will continue. Israel has no hope of peace as long as it pretends it has no culpability in the violence.
Now, go lie down for a while, that was probably too much information at once for your poor little wingnut brain.
I wish this blog allowed editing. The 3rd paragraph above should say: “That is why they are NOT allowed to cross from Gaza into Egypt”
[Fixed. –ed.]
#15 Thx tcc3. Dodd probably doesn’t understand that I agree in some part with him — the Palestinians have done some pretty nasty things. It’s that black-and-white wingnut mentality that’s the problem. He thinks the Israelis are 100% innocent and the Palestinians are 100% guilty. So anyone who disagrees with him, according to his black-and-white thinking, must therefore believe that the Palestinians are 100% innocent and the Israelis 100% guilty. It’s hard to have a rational conversation with a person like that. 🙁
#16 I think you have some good points there. I agree that the Palestinians are being used. And Israel is allowing their radicals to build those settlements in Palestinian territory.
#20-Phydeau-He thinks the Israelis are 100% innocent and the Palestinians are 100% guilty.
Wrong again – what a surprise.
As I am neither Israeli or Palestinian, I have no dog in this fight. But I am able to look at events, sift through the propaganda and determine what is really happening.
Black and White is much simpler that way, unlike your need for gray.
#22 As I am neither Israeli or Palestinian, I have no dog in this fight. But I am able to look at events, sift through the propaganda and determine what is really happening.
Wow. Countless people have struggled for decades to solve this problem, and you have it all figured out after reading some news articles. Good for you.
Black and White is much simpler that way, unlike your need for gray.
Black and white is indeed much simpler. Children live in a black and white world, and as part of the growing up process they learn there is very little that is truly black and white in the world.
And yet some people never catch on to that fact…
Did you ever wonder why the Palestinians were kicked out of every Arab nation?
Ummm really? You want to use evidence that a group of people were kicked out of places as evidence of their lack of worth? Really? Let’s see… what other group of people has been kicked out of lots of countries throughout history and harassed to such a degree that they had to go set up their own country? Being persecuted is not very good evidence for arguing that a group of people deserves to be persecuted.
“Israel gave them Gaza… a homeland… and what did they do? They immediately began sending rockets into Israeli population centers. Mass murder is how they thanked Israel.”
What other group of people was “given” a homeland in that area and immediately began invading other countries as a way of “thanking” the people that were already living there?
The Palestinians have earned the reputation of never missing an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
I guess they really do have a lot in common with the people they are fighting against then…
#24-jccalhoun-What other group of people was “given” a homeland in that area and immediately began invading other countries as a way of “thanking” the people that were already living there?
Your ignorance is showing.
As soon as Israel was recognized as a sovereign state in 1948 they were immediately attacked by its Arab neighbors.
Israel has been attacked (several times) since and has collected land as the spoils of war. They have since returned much of the land in a failed attempt to buy peace.
#22 #20-Phydeau-He thinks the Israelis are 100% innocent and the Palestinians are 100% guilty.
Wrong again – what a surprise.
Dodd, you’ve made your position clear here. Implicitly calling the arab countries monsters while it’s the Israeli forces that are wreaking havoc on the Palestinians. Implicitly criticizing the Palestinians for being kicked out of every country they’ve been in. You’re a black and white guy. Have the guts to stand up and say what you believe.
I believe there’s a lot of fault on both sides, with a little more on the Israeli side because they have complete military control over the situation with their planes, bombs, and tanks.
What do you believe?
#26-Phydeau-What do you believe?
yanikinwaoz in post #16 covered it quite nicely.
Don’t you consider rich Arab nations that can easily solve the problem, but instead decides to use mass suffering as a weapon to influence world opinion for selfish purposes to be a monster?
#27 How do you think rich arab nations could solve the problem? By taking all the Palestinians into their countries? By that thinking, the problem could as easily be solved by all the Jewish Israelis emigrating to some other country too. Is that your solution?
#28 little pedro, I’m touched by your fascination of all I have to say. It’s a little creepy too, but what the heck. We all have our faults. You can be my little anti-fan as long as you want. 😉
Dodd, your erudite knowledge based analysis lacks neither a path forward nor a grasp of the complexities of human relationships. I would guess you have Aspergers, based on your fixation for seeing this issue in black and white terms.
Anyone who has the imagination to consider the issues from both sides can redily “see” that the past has scarred all parties involved. My conversations with people who relatively recently left active service with the IDF revealed suppressed guilt, shame, uncertainty over services performed for Israel. I am not a mental health professional (obviously), but I am interested in the observations of people.
You state that the Arab nations have a duty to save their brothers and sisters in Israel, much like Austrailia, Canada, and the US helped save Europe and the Chinese from the Axis Nations. Why do Egypt and Jourdan have this duty? Egypt has a tiny border with the Gaza Strip, and Israel has a large border. Israel is 24% Arab already, but those Israeli Arabs can not do good much through the Gaza Israeli border. Whatever the case, you are making a red herring argument. This issue isn’t who should help; the issue is what can be done?
As has happened, and will happen in the future, in divided countries, these artifical borders must be removed and people reintegrated. If Israel could become the land of the happy Arab, and in turn the “shining city on the hill” Regan talked about, imagine the positive pressure that would be applied to the repressive Arab neighboring countries?
#4
If anyone is the target of genocide, it is the Jews. The Muslim nations have said repeatedly that they want to eradicate the Jews. That sounds like genocide to me.
Most of that “improved” infrastructure by the Palestinians has been used to kill Jews. The Israeli’s have made numerous concessions over the years and the Palestinians have proven that they do not want to live in peace. They want to kill Jews.
#6
> Who is abusing
> the Palestinians in Gaza?
Who was it that was randomly firing rockets into Israel? Who was it that used suicide bombers to take out school children? That wasn’t the Israelis.
#12
Again, put down the bong and live in the real world. It isn’t the Israelis saying that all Palestinians should be killed. It isn’t the Israelis sending in suicide bombers. The Palestinians have not proven they want to be a country and want to stop terrorism. Until they do that, no one will take their peace overtures seriously.
#30
> If Israel could become
> the land of the happy Arab
> , and in turn the “shining
> city on the hill”
This sort of kumbayah policy only works if both sides want peace. The Palestinians have established that they do not want peace. If the Palestinians want a country of their own, they have to prove they can police their own people and stop terrorism.
Contrary to the left’s interpretation, this is what Bush was getting at when he said “either you are with us or with the terrorists”. Either you are actively working to root out and trounce terrorism in your own country which includes cooperating with other countries in tracking down terrorists that move from country to country and stopping the flow of money to terrorist organizations or you are actively helping terrorism. There is no middle ground.
So far, the Palestinians have not proven they can or want to stop terrorists from killing Jews. Until they do that, it will be assumed that they are run by terrorists. Even if 90% of the Palestinians are peaceful, but the other 10% are terrorists, until the 90% stops the 10%, it will be assumed that the whole lot is fine with terrorism.
#31 Sigh… this all been answered before. The Israelis have tanks, planes, bombs, a large well-equipped modern army. The Palestinians have rocks, RPGs, and suicide bombers. It’s called asymmetrical warfare. Google it. And don’t be offended when people without tanks, planes, and bombs use whatever they have at their disposal. It’s war. And I’m not saying the Palestinians are more virtuous or right here, the two sides are just using different tactics. The Israelis bomb the Palestinians plenty, they just do it with planes instead of IEDs.
The Palestinians see the Israelis as occupiers, plain and simple. You may or may not agree with that assessment, but you should be able to understand why they do what they do, given that mindset.
And I’ll say once again, I think there’s plenty of blame to go around between the Israelis and Palestinians.
Personally, I don’t think the great powers did the Jews any favors by “giving” them their own country. There has been nothing but blood and tragedy ever since. Any time one group of people comes in and wrests control away from another group of people, there’s going to be trouble.
Here in America, we solved our problem with genocide — we wiped out the people who were here before us. How ironic it is that the Israelis could solve their “Palestinian Problem” that way too.