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The problem is not the end.
The problem is the means to get to that end.
Anyone with any knowledge of history and on how government works knows that it is the *worst possible* vehicle for attaining such noble ends.
The other important point is the cost. At what cost can such ends be attained?
Only entrepreneurs, who have the ability to calculate costs versus rewards, can come to the most efficient conclusion on how resources should be arranged.
Who says it will create a better world? Making things more expensive doesn’t translate into making them better. Green Jobs sounds nice and all but people need to be able to afford the stuff they make. Green jobs is almost the reverse of the Industrial Revolution. Instead of making thing cheap and more plentiful, they want to make them more expensive and fewer.
Like I have always said if your going to make a alternative to gas/Diesel for cars and trucks. You’re going have to make it as cheap or cheaper and as easy/easier to use as gas/diesel. It’s like after the first Hybrids came out. The cost of the upgrade to the Hybrid over the standard model gas would have to hit over $5 a gallon to justify it.
We could have saved a lot of coal and Natural Gas if we didn’t stop built Nuclear Power Plants in the 70’s. But like now back then the left is scaring people for no good reason.
This isn’t what John and Adam have been saying. Its what I’ve been saying. Fuck global warming! There are many clear reasons to want cleaner air and renewable energy. Why float some idea that is near impossible to prove when there are many easily proven more immediate effects that people have on the environment (air quality, drinking water, forests, food chain, oceans, radioactive waste, etc.). Lets cut down on emissions because children in cities are 30 times more likely to get asthma. Lets stop farmers and factories from polluting the water that we all share. Lets capture methane from farms to save money and energy. Solar panels save people money in freaking scandinavia where there is way less sun than here in the USA yet they are more prevalent there.
Plus that cartoon is dumb. Yes there can be many good outcomes to cleaning up our environment even if global warming is not man-made but the solutions being floated would not help the environment as much as make the rich richer and probably shield more companies from being sued when they trash the environment.
#1, #2, #3 – You guys quit confusing everyone with the facts!
#1 Geez, another friggin’ libertarian. Thank god for those rugged entrepreneurs, who put a man on the moon, built our national highway system, and cleaned up the air and water in America. Because god knows the government could never have done those things.
Sigh… where’s an eye-rolling emoticon when you need one?
#3 I agree with you that the benefits are many whether or not AGW exists.
[How about this?
– ed.]
If “missing the point” sums up what John and Adam have been saying about the media and the alarmist, then yes, this is a good example of missing the point.
It does solve the “Cap and Trade” Scam.
… that should be “doesn’t” solve.
Oh the stupidity of the left! This is absolutely the dummest damn argument the enviro wackos make.
Energy independence: We would go a long way towards energy independence if we were allowed to drill for our OWN damn oil!
Preserve rainforests: We don’t control the rainforests. But those that do want us to pay them not to cut them down. I believe that’s called extortion.
Sustainability: Otherwise known as “cut your energy consumption by 90%.”
Green jobs: What a farce! Those photovoltaics everyone is so happy about, they’re being built in China. Do you think increasing energy costs by 200% makes our businesses competive? God what idiots!
Livable cities??? I’m sorry, but I fail to see any benefit to cities when energy is restricted.
Renewables: You don’t need Global Warming to get there, you need competitive technologies. Which, by the way, will take care of itself if we are really running out oil. (Do people really believe burning food for fuel is an answer? Do they not understand that irrigation water is also a scarce resource?)
Clean water, air: Ah, the dummest argument of all. You want to limit the SOx and NOx emissions on a coal-fired plant? You have them install scrubbers, which is what EPA has been doing for nearly forty years. You want cleaner air in cities? You install pollution controls on cars. You want the air even cleaner? You tighten up the NAAQS. You want it even cleaner? You tighten up the NAAQS again. And again. And again. This is the process that has been going on since the early 70’s … and it works!
Uncle Dave,
The Nazi’s wanted a better world too with clean air, renewable energy, livable cities, and others on the list of the cartoon. Where they right to get to that by the means they pursued? Of course not. People against the current crop of snake oil salesmen like Gore etc who are pushing idiotic policies want the same things as Gore but want to go about it a different way where people aren’t taxed and lives aren’t ruined. The fact you can not understand this points to your sheer arrogance and intolerance just as the Nazis were. And when I type that it doesn’t mean I think you are anti semitic and want to kill people. Just that the pro global warming gang is employing the same type of shrill rhetoric that the Nazis used.
#8 Preserve rainforests: We don’t control the rainforests. But those that do want us to pay them not to cut them down. I believe that’s called extortion.
You like having oxygen to breathe? Then you better care about whether those trees are cut down. Remember photosynthesis from science class? Trees turn C02 into O2. No trees, no O2.
Making reasonable efforts to keep pollution low is a good move.
Building codes for better insulated new construction, higher mpg for new vehicles, and more energy efficient appliances seem reasonable.
Green jobs simply mean it takes more man hours to produce the same amount of electricity which will cost more. The overall impact on the economy for more expensive electricity is bad. People with limited incomes may be forced to do without even if that means their lives are wretched.
Neither wind nor solar can be counted on to keep a power grid up and running 24/7. Most greenies have a stroke at the thought of nuclear. They also may fight solar and wind because they don’t like the way they look. Something has to give. Most greenies seem to want it to be everybody else’s standard of living.
Carbon credits are a scam.
Using farm land to grow fuel drives up the cost of fuel and food. The farmers do okay.
Getting Indonesia to drain swamps to grow palm oil trees for greenies exposed a lot of peat that is going to rot and produce I think about an 8th of the CO2 for the next few years. You don’t hear much about that.
Right now the people running the man made global warming mess seem to be con men, hucksters, and the people they have conned. I find dealing with such to be distasteful not least of all because their first objective is to swindle the public including me.
What people don’t understand is that the world is getting smaller, metaphorically speaking. Brazilians cutting down thousands of square miles of trees in the Amazon affects us. Chinese spewing millions of tons of pollutants in the atmosphere affects us. Japanese taking millions of tons of fish from the ocean affects us. That’s the whole point of these international conferences. The countries have to work together to keep the world liveable.
#9 Warden: Where exactly did you get the idea I am against cleaning up the environment and for Gore and the other profiteering-at-our-expense phonies whose policies, if implemented, will lead to less freedom through one world government and all the rest?
Smith, if the US drill all the oil it wanted in and around the continent, where would you get the other 80% of the oil trade shortfall? You consume about 20 million bbl/day and produce 5 million bbl/day. Even being very generous the most you could bring on from Texas, California, Alaska, and Louisiana is 4-5 million bbl/day.
Your other thoughts are just as insightful.
#9 Sigh… the Nazis built world-class superhighways (autobahns). So us building our own superhighways, does that make us Nazis?
Godwin’s Law still applies, even if you’re not an anti-semite.
Great illustration.
Since it’s a cartoon illustration, maybe the conservative sheeple can start to internalize it and relax.
I dare Fox Noise to feature it on their cartoon network.
What? You like being lied to as long as it is for your own good? What are you, four years old?
#8 – Green Jobs. What about the jobs to design, test, market and sell the PV cells you reference? Is it possible we might keep a couple of those here?
I notice you didn’t reference the “Healthy Children” bullet point. Come on, I’d dying to know what malicious intent we liberals have when we attempt to keep industrial runoff out of our childrens’ drinking water through regulation.
#18 Antonio, I think their answer would be: If enough people’s children die from drinking poisoned water, the parents will sue the mega-billion dollar corporation and eventually (helps to mutter your super-duper libertarian magic words here) the company will be forced to stop polluting. Maybe. But no burdensome regulation, that’s the most important thing, much more important than the lives of children!
And the global warming issue was solved. Thanks, internet.
#8;
If you’re going to call something the “dummest damn argument”, you should at least be able to spell “dumbest” properly.
What a moran [sic].
“What if climate change is a big hoax…”
Kind of like what they say about religion, huh?
RBG
It’ll be a better world for the people with the green jobs. The people with regular jobs who have to fork over 30% of their income in order to pay the salaries of their “green” superiors won’t like it so much.
BTW:
1. Reduce energy waste.
2. Increase energy efficiency.
3. Reduce oil use (by using solar, wind & nuclear).
We can do ALL 3 without having cap-and-trade or caring about CO2, and still end up with a better world, plus keep the $billions that we’re paying Al Gore.
Anyone in NJ knows that when you drive on the Turnpike past Elizabeth and Linden it used to smell like the world’s largest stink bomb. It doesn’t anymore and if you think that these companies did that voluntarily without kicking and screaming the whole way your nuts. I’m not for cap and trade (seems like a money grab) but making these companies clean up their mess is a quality of life issue that is easily demonstrated. Just ask the people in that area who can breathe now.
#21 Thanks for the color commentary little pedro. You’ve polished your Twitter skills to a gleam. 🙂
Quite a wide assortment of “neener-neener boo boo so’s yer old man” comments there, sport.
Lets see..
More expensive food?
taking out extenders, replacements, ADDED water/seasoning to meat..Cutting SUGAR and using REAL OAT/WHEAT/CORN in cereal??(at $3-4 for 10oz it should be made of LEAD)
You mena they PAY MORE, after we send it OVER SEA’s??? where they dont ADD all that CRAP??
How about Cotton and wool Clothes for those that ARNT RICH?? What other country has 90% synthetic/plastic in their clothing??
LEAVE the peanut oil in the PEANUT BUTTER..
GET rid of the MONSANTO modified SOY BEAN(real soy beans take 3 processes to make them edible).. Look up CANOIL(canola)(rape seed(??)) then ASK what vegetable makes OIL.
LOOK into the history of WHY sugar is expensive in the USA. Its a CLOSED MARKET. Sugar cane is the major product of what STATE? And the USA does not want any competition. Even tho we can get it for less then 1/2 the price.
You want to FIX things?? Start with comparing WORLD WAGES. Compare the TOP wage to the lowest. Look at HOW the USA taught other countries about BUSINESS 50 years ago. AND why they are winning TODAY.
The problem is that the GOV. has slowly taken away PARTICIPATION in GOV. WE are on the OUTSIDE. we have to change that, as well as START WATCHING THE FIXERS. OPEN it up so WE can see what is going on.
DID you know that if you can get 2 million signatures and GIVE it to the GOV, they have to do it?? They have to bring it to a VOTE?
And if you get 10 million, you have over 1/5(20%) that VOTED our president into office?
IF we can get 100 million signatures on a petition… you could over rule ANY VOTE IN THE USA.. and ALL they have done is DIVIDE and RULE. and no one can AGREE on anything.
Everything’s a hoax, nothing’s true, it’s all false. Those that think something can be done are just as delusional as those that think it would hurt their lifestyles to try. This whole issue is making painfully evident that many humans are party animals. No concern for the future as long as the present is acceptable. Most of the proposed action if undertaken would represent a great advance for mankind, regardless of the validity of climate change. But no it’s all a scam… The party’s almost over anyways. There are too many humans, our numbers continue to grow and our voracity for resources grows too. It’s obvious to even the most foolish that we can’t go on like this forever. But don’t let me bring you down, party on dudes!
19,
That is arguably one of the most stupid things I have read on this site recently. Isn’t runaway litigation one of the reasons behind the health-care collapse? Regulating through the courts is a last-case scenario, not first. People like you obviously have no inkling of the importance of properly implemented and executed regulation in the quality of our food and environment.
The special interests on the Right spend all their time trying to fuck the people for maximum gain at the minimum cost to itself. It does not mind paying a couple million to a few dead or diseased kids when it can save 10 million in unimplemented safety regulation.
Here’s an idea: Turn them off.
Thats right, turn off the lights. Save the energy for later. Save the money spent by NOT having a garish light show on something you need.
Something that will help you in the coming year.
Turn off the unneeded light displays, the ornamental lights of total waste.
Save the energy for the good of your pocketbook, if not for the planet.
Or, turn the lights off and send me the savings. I could use the money you’re wasting. Since you want to spend it, why not give it to me instead of spending it to support that tired old Electric Utility that is just going to charge you MORE for the amount you use?
Think of it as a way to spread the joy of the season to someone who is currently Joyless.
Spread this around. Tell your friends and neighbors. TURN OFF THE DAMN LIGHTS.
Thank you, and Happy Merry.
Here’s my take.
Either we clean up our act on OUR ONLY PLANET, or we don’t.
If we clean the place up, there will be healthier humans, if we keep skanking it up, we will not survive as a species, because of the pollution, and lack of resources.
Not based on scientific fact, but REASON.