KABUL, Afghanistan — President Hamid Karzai said Tuesday that Afghanistan would not be able to pay for its own security until at least 2024, underscoring his government’s long-term financial dependence on the United States and NATO even as President Obama has pledged to begin withdrawing American troops in 2011. “For another 15 to 20 years, Afghanistan will not be able to sustain a force of that nature and capability with its own resources,” Mr. Karzai said, referring to the force required to secure the entire country.
Mr. Karzai spoke at a news conference here with the American secretary of defense, Robert M. Gates, who did not put a timetable on the American and allied financial commitment but acknowledged that there was a “realism on our part that it will be some time before Afghanistan is able to sustain its security forces entirely on its own.”
The news conference came just hours after as many as a dozen people were killed during an American raid in Laghman Province, Afghan officials said, prompting hundreds of villagers to march in protest.
Cripes…let’s just bite the bullet and make it the 51st state. Or was that 58th? I think it’s time we dumped this idiot and installed a different puppet.
2024. I’m fine with it as long as we take over the entire country and call it USA II and have it entirely military based. This way, if anyone one of them fcked up countries get out of hand and we can take care of them easily.
Screwe democracy if other countries insists on fighting and having wars. It’s time for pure military dictatorship baby.
On the plus side, nukes are are a good thing because it’ll reduce population dramatically, or can. 😀
Hey, guess what? The U.S. doesn’t have the resources and finances to continue protecting your rocks either. Step up and get to it….because we are leaving…sooner better than later.
Bring our guys home today!
But, since that won’t happen, what should we do if they ever really do have a fair election and elect the bad guys. Could happen even though we are throwing $100 bills around there like it was Baghdad after “mission accompolished”.
Bring them home and dust off the nukes.
I agree with everything but the GOP stuff in the pic. Democrats have a had a year to make a decision on Afghanistan, and they’ve decided to send MORE troops. It’s now the Democrats’ war.
#4 Nice attempt to take that monkey off the GOP’s back but nope, this is a shithole cleanup that doesn’t wash away in one term.
Looks like I need to do my part for the war effort and become a heroin addict.
Greetings: Mr/Ms Youth O. America
You are hereby ordered for induction into the Armed Forces of the United States, and to report the local Armed Forces Induction Center on or before…
#4
What mess would that be? It had a religious dictatorship prior to our invasion and now it is run by warlords. At least now, some women can walk around without a burka. It is absolutely Obama’s war now because he chose to escalate it.
#8
That was actually directed at #5.
The leadership can and does continue to act against the wishes of the majority, even over the long term.
It is a sad day when you realize how you have gotten used to living in a country that repeatedly ignores the majority while perpetually patting itself on the back for being “free” and “democratic”.
As a Canadian, I feel we might as well be a mirror image of the USA. At least we only got involved in one tragedy, not two.
As for this Karzai fellow, it is SHOCKING to me how overt the United States can be in installing puppets these days. There’s no tact to it anymore. Falsifying elections in front of the international community, and backing up a president who didn’t win according to Iraq’s constitution (look it up)…. absolutely appalling. The invisible hand is now wearing an iron glove.
Ah_Yeah hinted at the solution to finance Afghanistan. Take over the drug industry and start undercutting the other drug nations.
This is absolutely crazy. Bush Jr starts a war in Afghanistan then leaves prematurely to go crazy in Iraq. Now Obama feels the need to clean up the mess. Obama ought to have Bush Jr. arrested then shipped over to Afghanistan to take over leadership. If Bush Jr fails, the people of Afghanistan can cut off his head.
To see people in tribal attire, who have walked 50 miles to a poling booth, under threat of death and mutilation by terrorists, a trip for which there is no safe return home, queue to vote. That is why we’re there.
#12
Goddammit Sargasso, stop your common sense, righteous attitude. This blog is for stupid people like me and all the others to come in and start senseless fights! We don’t need no stinking rational comment from the likes of you! Go Away and let us continue fighting!
Seriously though, you words hit home for me. I shed tears reading it. Sometimes even I forget the hell my parents and all 9 of us went through during the Vietnam war. What you said can not be wrong, it just can’t for people who have suffered, like our family, and those that are still suffering but have the opportunity to do something about it.
#11
What utter double-talk. You do realize that Obama campaigned on the idea that we SHOULD go into Afghanistan. Thus, that “crazy war” that Bush started was one that Obama endorsed (and almost all of the Democrats I might add). It is doubtful that we’d be finished in Afghanistan even if we didn’t go into Iraq. Choosing to continue in Afghanistan is Obama’s decision and his alone. I think it is the right decision but it is absolutely his war now.
#12 Sorry sargasso, but a society needs a certain level of civilization before democratic elections are meaningful. Warlords and terrorists abound, that place is not “civilized” by any stretch of the imagination.
At this point merely a slightly less vicious dictator ruling the place would be an improvement. They don’t have the infrastructure or the educated voters to have a democracy.
Let’s get a few things straight since I can see the liberal’s revisionist history lessons have already have poisoned a few peoples minds:
1.) Obsama Bin-Ladden financed and partly led the attacks on America on 9-11. THAT’S WHY THE US IS IN AFGHANISTAN! The US is there to catch that little bastard and rub out the Talliban. (It’s NOT why the US is in IRAQ!)
2.) When it comes to Iraq, Bush Jr. was given BAD INTELLIGENCE thanks to the CIA and was basically told that Iraq was just DAYS away from a launch-able NUKE! And just WHO do you think that NUKE was pointed at?! Isreal, Europe, America?! Did you want Mr. Bush to just sit by and let it happen? I mean, what if that intelligence was right?!!! At the time, Bush did what even your liberal hero Nancy Pelosi probably would have done – we (the U.S.) invaded.
3.) The mass troop buildup in IRAQ has ALREADY OCCURRED! The mass troop buildup for AFGHANISTAN is set to begin very shortly. And BOTH BUILDUPS WERE APPROVED BY THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION.
And if any of you kids remember your history, recall that Nixon, a republican, was the one who got us out of Viet Nam. Nixon also opened up relations with China so it just goes to show that no one is perfect. Still, Johnson, a DEMOCRAT, was the one who escalated Vietnam and KENNEDY was the one who STARTED IT!!! And again it all started over bad intelligence! But you NEVER hear that part any more, probably because Kennedy was a DEMOCRAT!
So don’t go pointing fingers lest you forget that the DEMOCRATS are responsible for more military DEATHS and mishandling of wars in the last 200 years than ANY OTHER PARTY IN AMERICA! Rosevelt in WWII was a dem. Wilson in WWI was a dem. And the Civil war was primarily started because the dems objected to Lincoln winning the Presidency! (The freeing of the slaves came DURING the war and is NOT why it started.) Do you REALLY think America’s troubles are going to get any better before Obama leaves office?
Come on people. THINK!!!
#15
I think you missed the point of what he’s saying. One has to notice that some people want change because things are so screwed up as you’ve said. If no one cares for those that want and need a change then who would step up?
Certainly if you already think it is impossible then there’s nothing left for you to comment about. Obviously there are still plenty of people, regardless of their intentions, that want a change in that country. We only have to look through history to learn that sooner or later things will change. I honestly can’t say that about N.Korea now because I’m as blind as you for a solution other than killing military people and it’s ruler(s). But then even that will not be a good idea because the people are already so brainwashed. Anyhow..back to topic.
If you are waiting for countries to become civilized and educated before being granted democracy I think it’s a world that only you have created in your head. Wanting change in the form of freedom does not require one to be civilized or even educated. Didn’t our forefathers say something to that effect?
For example, you’re saying my poor sorry ass Asian behind is too uncivilized and uneducated to deserve anything and yet here I am, escaped from hell that you apparently know nothing about, due to the fact that my mountain farming parents, uncivilized and dumb as fuck in western sense, decided war and dictationship/communism was a bad thing and had reason enough to trek through jungles, charlies, land mines, paying off thieves to trek us all through the meikon river and even paid all their money and jewelry the the few of them to let one of my sister and brother go, wondering afterwards how the fck they were going to support the family with no money in hand and at the same time shedding tears over the lost of the oldest son who joined a rebel group to fight local charlies and we have not since heard from again, etc, etc…
Yea, we’re just dumb, stupid, uncivilized fcks that don’t deserve democracy or freedom. Mind you my father had fought with the US and my Grandfather with the french army, as a general, and my two brothers in the Father Bush wars.
But you know, I think you’re definitely right on the money. Freedom is a luxury.
#16
RE: #1
Not true. The goal has never been just Bin Laden nor just Al Qaeda. The goal is to eliminate terrorism and specifically terrorism that is being fostered by extremist Muslim groups and financed by rogue governments of which Bin Laden and Al Qaeda were but one group.
Bush’s strategy for achieving that goal was:
1. Improve information sharing between countries (passenger information, banking information etc)
2. Pressure governments, and specifically the governments in the Middle-East, to root out terrorists in their own country
3. For those governments that refuse to cooperate, work towards changing their government.
THAT is why were were in Iraq: to put pressure on the other Middle-East countries. That is why Iraq fits into the overall strategy of eliminating terrorism and why the fact that the 9/11 terrorists were not from Iraq is irrelevant.
Afghanistan is also part of that plan. In order to make it work, it needs a stable government in place with sufficient power to track down and take out terrorists on their own. After Afghanistan, we’ll likely turn our focus to Iran and Syria.
Liberty, you are correct in that because of bad inteligence, the USA is now in a deep mess with two war zones.
There will always be excuses as to why the USA can not just leave those war zones. ‘No cut and run’, ‘Iraqi government will fall apart’, ‘Afghan government will fall apart’, ‘oil’, ‘democracy’, ‘freedom’ and so on…
Will it really matter if the troops are withdrawn now or fifty years later? Who here thinks the Taliban and Al-Queda will ceased to exists and cease operations in the next five years, ten years or twenty years?
Bush Jr. said this is a new kind of war but then he tried to fight it like a regular conventional war.
A new tactic is needed but no one seems to be addressing it.
As long as the USA tries to fight terrorism like a regualr war, wWhether you are a democrat, republican or third party be prepared to spend lives and money on endless wars.
The0ne #17,
Marvelous, excellent post. Every once in a while someone states something so good it sticks.
Such as your post. Kudos.
Now don’t expect Phydeau to understand your sanguine words. He/She cannot see reason if it shows poorly on Obama. Unfortunate.
According to Phydeau, Afghanistan never was a state. Of course, Phydeau again shows immense ignorance. All of us with an education knows Afghanistan was a nation with a central government since the founding of the Durrani Empire in 1747. In fact, Afghanistan has been an independent state longer than the United States! The only time in the last 200 years Afghanistan was without a central government was when the government collapsed under the Soviet invasion.
Even the Taliban was a central authority, under one unified state.
Not to mention…, following Phydeau’s logic, those dumbass, uneducated Americans rebelling against the civilized English would never be able to handle a democracy either!
Oh, and by the way, TheOne,
For myself, I’m very glad you and your parents came here to the U.S.
We will need you and all those like you who came here to be a part of what is uniquely American. We will need you to help protect us from those who want to take that all away in the name of the “public good”.
Dallas #5 – Sorry. Obama campaigned on expanding on the war in Afghanistan and now he has escalated the war by sending a bunch more soldiers. I agree with Angus: It’s Obama’s war now.
Thomas #8 – I received an email yesterday from a young woman who used to work for me in Kabul. She’s just gotten a job as a news reporter on a local TV station. When I first got there no woman would have been allowed to show her face on the one TV station let alone go out and investigate the news! In fact, the Taliban didn’t believe in broadcasting the images of even men. Turn on the TV and you got an image of a page from the Q’uran and a male voice chanting the text. So things have definitely improved for women – and the news.
But please don’t use the burqa as your yardstick when measuring progress. Even women who don’t have to wear one choose to wear it because of a lot of tradition.
Don’t believe me about civilization and democracy… look it up in the history books. A functioning middle class with reasonable education is necessary for a long-standing and stable democracy.
#17 Kudos to your parents for getting themselves out of their undemocratic country and to America. Thank you for reinforcing my point that societies without a functioning middle class can be pretty nasty. And the few who desire freedom have to leave those societies. So why are you so angry at what I said?
And “freedom” is not the same thing as “democracy”. The Russians freed themselves from the Czars and look what kind of government they made.
#20 I never said Afghanistan wasn’t a state, bonehead. Read, understand, then comment. And America did have a prosperous, functioning middle class at the time of the American Revolution. Looks like you slept through your history classes, but that doesn’t stop you from shooting off your mouth.
Iraq invaded the US strategic ally Kuwait and threatened Saudi Arabia. Obama will continue to fight that war and the Afghanistan war using Bush II’s successful Secretary of Defense and surge war strategies. That is, as soon as he gets back from picking up his Nobel Peace Prize.
RBG
Let me put it this way. If we had been looking for a place to invade in order to make money Afghanistan would not have been on the list or even near the list. It’s land locked, mountainous, arid, with degraded land, and no commercially important natural resource.
The biggest and most valuable cash crop is poppies.
#25 But it’s a good place to put an oil pipeline.
#21 Ah_Yea, paraphrase “Every educated person knows Afghanistan is a state.”
No.
A state means a few things. It has relatively stable borders. The authority, which has a monopoly of violence(mostly), controls the territory within those borders(mostly). There is a system of justice which is somewhat consistent. The authority has a decent method of ensuring a transfer of leadership from one leader to another.
Afghanistan, when it isn’t being ignored, is mostly notable for being conquered by just about everybody.
#23 Phydeau
Afghanistan has no middle class, and it isn’t a democracy. Neither one is happening anytime soon. Like in our lifetimes soon.
Summation: Afghanistan is like that alien bar in Star Wars. There is some commercial activity, and a lot of dangerous looking locals. What is missing is the modern world.
Why are we there? Really?
Phydeau, Obamapologist extraordinaire.
“So why are you so angry at what I said?”
You’re truly clueless.
“that place is not “civilized” by any stretch..”
“Afghanistan has no middle class..”
Except from other boneheads, where did you geniuses find that Afghanistan has no middle class? That Afghanistan is hopelessly ‘uncivilized’? Stop believing everything BSNBC says.
Look through this and then try to explain your ignorance.
http://afghanistan.buildingmarkets.org/en_af/supplierdirectoryconciselisting/
“mostly notable for being conquered by just about everybody”
So that’s why they call it the “graveyard of empires”.
Sheez. Stupidity rules.
Democrat’s war, hardly. Neocons got in there, butchered it up and now responsible people are trying to fix that mess. Unfortunately, we can’t afford to because of the mess made out of Iraq and what’s been done to our country in the guise of letting the rich have what they earned (read ripped others off for selfish gain) and not paying their due taxes.
Look conservatives, you backed it and bought it. You’re the cause of most of the problems in the U.S. and abroad right now anyway, especially when you acquiesced to neocon selfishness. Sure there were some people calling themselves liberal who went along at times but real liberals have fought against everything that sucked since before Nixon.
Diatribe over. Yep, it looks like Karzai might be just another corporate huxter. So either we’ve made another eventual third world banana dictatorship or it will succeed. Hopefully the latter but after not much longer we need to pull out, right our own ship and let the Afghanis succeed or fail on their own merits.
And no, Obama was not and is not a real liberal but he was better than the alternative.