By SN
Thursday November 19, 2009
Consumerist – 11/14/09:
Should you be required by law to pay a gratuity if you don’t think the restaurant’s service was worth it? The police in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania think so, and they arrested two college students for refusing to pay a $16.35 tip over what they claim was poor service.
Philly.com – Nov. 19, 2009:
“You can’t give us terrible, terrible service and expect a tip,” said Pope, a 22-year-old Moravian College senior 
who’s a Pottsville native, according to the Lehigh Valley Express-Times.
They had to find their own napkins and cutlery while their waitress caught a smoke, had to ask the bar for soda refills, and had to wait over an hour for salad and wings, they told NBC10.
The pub, which was very busy that night, took the $73, but then called the cops, who treated the matter as a theft.
This says it all:
#29–Chris==so, it comes down to this: do you want people who are willing to pay the menu prices but cannot/will not pay an additional gratuity to visit your establishment or not?
Works the other way too. I had a guy at a table of 4 (2 middle aged couples) who was a complete ass, even when I explained the huge busy Saturday night we were having. The other 3 people were obviously embarrassed at this guy’s behaviour. I offered a round of free drinks but they refused. He ended up leaving a 15% tip on his credit card and I scratched the tip off, adjusted the total and wrote in capital letters – REFUSED.
Now that felt good.
# 25 bobbo, “…you are such a doc. Yes, charge that sweet young thing for a warm speculum”
It’s just that so few of them are sweet. Or young. A warm speculum is wasted on most of ’em.
But I like your idea. I could charge extra on the day of and the day after a manicure. A little less on the third and fourth days then back to regular fees.
Only problem I see is, I’d have to start getting manicures. No. I guess not. Too complicated. Would I start charging extra the day I get my teeth cleaned?
No one expects 35%. If you’re giving out 35% tips, you deserve to be stressed; you’re a big part of the problem.
#34, right
It felt good when you deprived yourself of hard-earned and well deserved tip? (according to your story)
Since you had “balls” to scratch the tip and write “refused” and give it back to customer, why you didn’t have guts to go back and ask him for *higher than usual* tip?
I’m not a waiter, I don’t know, but IMO that would be more ballsy – and still the right thing to do (since he gave you the tip in the end he *was* satisfied with your service after all, despite his fusses while you were serving him).
I hope you have at least spat in his food 🙂
I know I would.
(but then – I would never work as waiter, either I would kick out all the assholes and made no money at all, or I would be arrested for spilling hot beverages on such assholes causing second degree burns or whatever…)
If you are in a restaurant and are unhappy with the service, then leave a tip of 1 cent. That tells the waitstaff that you didn’t forget their tip, but that you were not happy with the service.
Having lived in Australia for many years where there is no tipping, I think tip motivated staff in bars and restaurants make for a much better experience. I had to laugh when I read the comment above form the Kiwi about how great the service is there. It isn’t. I suspect that he just doesn’t know any better, or he found the only place on earth where it works.
When I lived in Oz, I had a small number of pubs and restaurants I would frequent. I made a point of tipping the staff (around 10%). Within two months the staff got to know me as a regular. Then whenever I would walk in, I’d get served instantly no matter how busy the place was. The bartenders would actually make sure my glass was never empty, instead of having to wait 30 minutes to for the privilege of buying a beer.
Tipping does work.
I also worked as waiter in high school and college. Yes, sometimes I’d get stiffed. Sometimes I’d do great. It is part of the job.
In some high end restaurants, and in nicer strip clubs in the US, the waiters and dancers have to pay the establishment to work there. They can make a good living doing that. A friend of mine is a dancer at once of Vegas’ nicer strip clubs. She has to pay, I think, around $80 to get in every night she wants to work. Every dancer in there is in the red when they come out to work.
Federal Min. Wage Law States:
An employer may pay a tipped employee not less than $2.13 an hour in direct wages if that amount plus the tips received equal at least the federal minimum wage, the employee retains all tips and the employee customarily and regularly receives more than $30 a month in tips. If an employee’s tips combined with the employer’s direct wages of at least $2.13 an hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference.
Some states have minimum wage laws specific to tipped employees. When an employee is subject to both the federal and state wage laws, the employee is entitled to the provisions of each law which provide the greater benefits.
—————-
To me it just sounds like a way for the employers to make money off the meal and have you pay their waiters. Makes me rethink if I’m going to leave that 15%.
I hate tipping at restaurants.
I don’t tip the guy that changes the oil in my car. I don’t tip the UPS guy…
I shouldn’t have to tip at a restaurant. Their pay should be higher, and if that’s included in the cost of the menu items, so be it..
It’s a job…and one that really requires no education…and should be paid accordingly.
#33 -> People who do not tip at sit down restaurants are not people who cannot afford that price-point.
If you live in a place where people customarily tip you should tip, and if you live in a place where people don’t tip you shouldn’t.
If you don’t do that to the negative then something is wrong.
Even in worst case service I would tip 15%, but would talk to a manager.
A direct answer to your question: If you can’t afford the total restaurant bill, including a reasonable tip, eat at home.
Do You Know What TIP stands for.
To
Ensure
Promptness
Need I say more.
In my younger days, I’ve worked as waiter and a bartender, so I’ve seen the view from both sides. I always strive to tip a minimum of 20% for great service, and will often make the manager aware of exemplary service. If the waitress is a hottie, I may tip even more. I often tip my barber nearly 50%. This insures me prompt service, even on Holidays and eves, as well as loads of extra coupons. HOWEVER, I would never be bullied into it. Had it been me in this story whom they’d tried to extort an unearned tip from, I’d have busted up, make that leveled, the place, and those pigs along with it. Want a great tip? Just keep my iced tea full. Want a trip to the ER? Threaten me.
All you Dingus Kongs who talk about T.I.P. = To Insure Promptness, or other equivalent bollocks, should really question whether that’s the true source of the term.
Perform some of your own research and the world will seem shiny and new.
Here in Australia you only tip if you have received good service and/or good food. I find this system works very well. It encourages good service.
# 44 jca2010 – calm down, calm down. I know the To Insure Prompt Service myth is not correct (had a long thread on this in another forum – on language) but I also know the etymology is unclear so why worry about it? Although we may not know what the word meant in the 17th century, we know what it means now.
Maybe you should take your own advice and do a little research: then you would find no one knows for sure how the term came into common use.
After you check out the etymology, try a thesaurus. I believe you will find the synonym is gratuity and then we’ll back on point. Can gratuities ever be mandatory?
I think I might have left an “upper decker” in the restaurant bathroom.
A tip is a reward and recognition from the customer for the service received.
First, who the hell decided that 15% or 20% or even 25% was the appropriate amount I *should* leave?
Second, in this specific case, if the group did not receive part of their meal, why should they pay for it. Since the service was poor to non existent, the pub is getting something for nothing.
Third, it is discriminatory to charge large groups just because they are part of a large group. It costs the restaurant no more to serve a table of eight than it does two tables of four. Dictates of economy suggest it should cost less.
Fourth, most people go to specific “pubs” for more than the food. Most of these establishments advertise the ambiance and “party” atmosphere. If that atmosphere was missing from this party’s experience, the pub should have discounted their bill.
I hope these kids fight the charge. If I was in their shoes I would.
I worked as a security guard when I was younger, and you know what? The pay sucked. I was able to cover all of my bills and Maybe Had 50 bucks left in my pocket at the end of the month to spend on me.
So you know what I did? I took a training course, and am now making much better money.
Not making as much a wait staff?
Get a better job. Because it’s not mine to help you make a living.
Personally, I just chalk it up to the “Age of Entitlement” we now live in.
Just a niggle or two here: $73 * 0.18 = $13.15
So where did we get the $16.35 and also
where did one of the commentors get 18.5% instead of 18%?
Aside from that, the linked story does seem to be incomplete so I think some establishing details are missing in particular about who did what and what behaviors occured. It seems strange that an owner would have called the cops and had them arrested. Maybe a manager. The PR blow-back would have been scarier to an owner, would be my guess. But, without better info that is just speculation on my part.
Just another niggle here but 2 kids: sodas + salads + wings = $73?!?!?!?
gratuity [grəˈtjuːɪtɪ]
n pl -ties
1. (Business / Commerce) a gift or reward, usually of money, for services rendered; tip
2. something given without claim or obligation
3. (Military) Military a financial award granted for long or meritorious service
By definition, the people do NOT have to pay.
2. something given WITHOUT claim or OBLIGATION
The owner already admitted that they don’t HAVE to pay by declaring it a gratuity added to the bill.
Did the customers ‘feel ill’ or ‘unwell’ at any time following the visit to this restaurant? If so, seems that it would be appropriate to call the food hygiene people, of course, ‘ just to let them know so that the restaurant can be cleared of any unknown problems in the kitchen or work surfaces.
In respect of the original question, it might be appropriate to go to court. The resultant losses to the business are certainly not actionable and just might produce a result in favour of the defending customer.
I would be quite interested to hear whether this place is still in business in a year or so.
If they really wanted to make a point, they could have tipped in change. Say .73 in coins. I worked as a dishwasher in an AppleBee’s and can tell you the wait staff were far more upset by such a tip than no tip at all (which still upset them).
Tip them $1, that should send the idea across, and they you can say you did tip.
My father tips in 50 cent pieces and Sacajawea dollars. It’s pretty embarrassing and I have to get out of there before the waitress sees a pile of non-standard money.
I start at 20% and go downward from there if the service is poor. I also usually write my tip in the space provided my credit card receipt instead of leaving actual hand money.
The only time I don’t really tip much is at buffets because I have to get up and make my own salad and get my own food. Same for those steak places where you have to cook your own meat and I still tip 10% because they do bring drinks.
For pizza delivery, I have been ordering the pizza as a carryout because the place is two blocks from my house and I can walk two blocks to save on a tip. If it is raining or I get it delivered for another reason I pay a tip to the pizza guy to bring it to my house.
Benjamin #55 – I ALWAYS leave the tip in cash, if I have money with me. If you put it on the tab, they have to recover it from the restaurant and every cent of it makes it onto their income statement for taxation. Leave it in cash and some or all of it might disappear into that pretty waitress’s apron.
#40 – “It’s a job…and one that really requires no education…and should be paid accordingly.”
Yep, you sure know a lot, it’s amazing!
I hate tipping but this society is so tricked into it there’s no escaping. Most of the time I’ll just leave a buck and be done with it. As I see it it’s a job, they get pay already, why should consumers have to pay an additional 15% on top of that.
I don’t want to get into arguments over that they don’t get pay well, they need the tips to support their families and such. Lots of people/families are in the same situation and they don’t get tips! Does the car wash guy does less of a job than the waitress/waiter? No, he/she actually does a MUCH harder job.
It’s so bad now that many restaurants are now even stating on the bill the exact 15% amount. Yes, they calculate it for you and expects you to pay up. You pay directly along with the bill instead of leaving cash on the table. Ever wonder if the service people get any of the tips? Think again.
And how about the cooks? Why not tip the cooks while at it because really you’re there for the food. Fck the service workers and I’ll tip the cook/chef, how about that?
This is just all BS to me. Tipping.
We don’t tip, in New Zealand. Period, none. Anyone asking or expecting a gratuity is regarded as a crook. But like all things invented in America, it’s finding it’s way into our lives. I leave a 20% under a coffee cup or a dish, when I leave, if the service was as advertised. This is unusual, but it is always accepted.
Damn straight! I’m with #15. Get out of the business of serving if you can’t do it right! That goes for the restaurant as a whole!
BTW – What did the owner tell the cops that would persuade them to arrest these people?
My rule of thumb on tiping has been, 15% for average table service, higher for better service and/or larger groups.
If the service is not good enough to warrent a tip, then it warrents complaining to the manager and adjustments be made.
This last part must be handled properly or it can backfire. Althought I have found a good word to the manager about a good server, pays off on the next visit too.