By SN
Thursday November 19, 2009
Consumerist – 11/14/09:
Should you be required by law to pay a gratuity if you don’t think the restaurant’s service was worth it? The police in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania think so, and they arrested two college students for refusing to pay a $16.35 tip over what they claim was poor service.
Philly.com – Nov. 19, 2009:
“You can’t give us terrible, terrible service and expect a tip,” said Pope, a 22-year-old Moravian College senior 
who’s a Pottsville native, according to the Lehigh Valley Express-Times.
They had to find their own napkins and cutlery while their waitress caught a smoke, had to ask the bar for soda refills, and had to wait over an hour for salad and wings, they told NBC10.
The pub, which was very busy that night, took the $73, but then called the cops, who treated the matter as a theft.
If its mandatory, its not a tip.
Well, if the restaurant advertises “Mandatory Tip Policy” and its part of your bill, then YES.
If no such advertised inclusion, then NO.
I never return bad food to the kitchen as I don’t want who knows what added to the second serving, but I do refuse tips thereafter even when the wait service was good. I tell them to think “Holistically.” Not even an issue in places that pool tips which I also object to.
Yes, one can feel very Larry David in this life.
This is interesting..
there are 2 points to be seen..
ARE THE TIPS, the WAGES?
TIP is in consideration of a decent meal and service.
The more you LIKE the place the MORE you tip.
The phone number for the Lehigh Pub is (610) 868-1313… in case you want to make reservations. 😉
#3–Well eca==to the degree I can make sense of them, I disagree with both your points.
1. Are tips part of wages./// Who cares. That is irrelevant to the issue of whether or not the euphemism must be paid.
2. Does “a decent meal and service” deserve a tip???? Or is that why you just paid 5 times what you can cook the gruel yourself at home?
I think wait staff deserve a decent wage/competitive wage/fair market wage/living wage===whatever, as long as all establishments are on the same page.
Trying to determine why some industries get tips and others don’t is beyond rationality. Tip your doctor????? Its your life compared to a creme brule?
I have only seen “gratuities” enforced on parties over a certain size. This is generally stated on the menu. If you don’t agree with the policy you can leave. I only frequent certain establishments and as long as the wait staff doesn’t totally fuck up I tip 20%. I generally save my venom for Yelp.com.
If the menu or something mentioned there would be a gratuity added, then it is part of the bill and not paying is theft, regardless of the level of service.
As for who gets tipped and who doesn’t, serving has evolved with tips. If nobody tipped, it would be harder to fill the positions and so the servers would have to be paid more and the prices would go up.
As it is a good server can make good money because they will get tipped well, whereas a poor server won’t and will probably not keep the job.
I think tipping works well to keep the level of service up in an industry where it would be difficult for a manager to measure it. In other professions, you are rewarded for results that are easier to measure.
There is no tipping in New Zealand and it works great. They have happy servers and great service. They build in the little extra cost into the meals.
If you’re going to regulate tipping, why not just get rid of it altogether and build it into the wage? It just another law you don’t need.
When you go to Paris the drinks cost more the further away you are from the bar. Sitting outside = highest price. At the bar, lowest price. No tipping ever – or (sinister sneer) – Is There???
TANSTAFAL
However, in America, by gawd, unless it is in the contract (per #2), it is an option, not an obligation.
I worked for a fine dining restaurant last year. I was a “server,” which is halfway between a bus boy and waiter.
The owner/chef would explain the menu and wine list to the customers, after which we would take the order, serve the food, and bus the tables.
The house kept all the tips, although we were paid significantly more than waiters, who generally make less than minimum wage.
#8 – Yeah, and I’ve been to parts of Europe where they don’t tip and the service sucked. I would’ve gladly thrown in 15% just to get a refill on a drink.
If “service” is on the bill (not gratuity, because there is no such thing as obligatory gratuity), unless you didn’t get any service at all, walking out without paying or negotiating with waitstaff/mgmt is theft. You certainly lose your ability to negotiate if you walk out the door and the police pick you up.
In the “old” days, tips stood for “To insure prompt service.”
As with a lot of pay the tip thing is misunderstood especial by some restaurants who consider it more of just regular pay. What it should be is a bonus for good service. Unfortunately cheapskates who fail to tip at all! Have forced some establishments to at least get the minimum out of some of those cheapskates. I am all for a waitress or waiter getting a decent hourly pay and calling tips what they should be. In a perfect world I know.
As I understand it, pretty much the ONLY job one can get which doesn’t have any sort of minimum wage is to a waiter.
Seriously, if the jerks who choose to become waiters had any brains they’d have gotten a different job with some sort of wage protection.
I NEVER tip unless the service and food has been truly exceptional (ie. not very often at all).
More often than not I feel like they should have tipped ME to make up for below standard service and food.
I’m sorry, but if the service stinks, why should I tip you? A tip is voluntary, unless there is a large party, and tips are based on the degree of service rendered. Once, I had a waitress trying to wait our table, and a very large group table. She stopped by once in an hour to check on us, but she hovered over the large group like a mother hen. She got a nickel tip. That’s all she was worth.
I DON’T tip. It’s a bribe. I realize there are places in America the waiters don’t get paid at all, they just get tips. Well, tough luck, they should find a real job. Or, come clean and explain it to the customers: this joint here does not have waiting service, and we’re freelancers bringing you the food and forwarding orders. You’ll be expecting a separate bill.
Otherwise, tipping is just bribe.
I love when foreigners KNOW how the American culture of dining out works yet still don’t tip. Why the fake ignorance?
It just comes off as snide and cheap.
the Tiki
Well,,,,,,,,EXCUUUUUUSSEEEEEE me-but==rereading the thread I do come to this idea: “What the frick is a tip? Employee’s should get paid to do a job and the price of an acceptable service should be just that. All this crap about “tipping” is just that. Some kind of dishonesty/charity/who knows what that has been institutionalized. MANAGEMENT is required to know who is good vs who is bad and deal with it.
Who gets tips? Waiters, Taxis, Bartenders, Strippers, Pizza Delivery, Maitre Di’s, Hotel Help.
Why not “everybody?” Whats the “rule” in operation? I see comedy: Larry David should tip his dentist: hilarity ensues.
Really seems to me you tip people you don’t respect.
It bothers me when a site I like, like the consumerist, leaves a relevant bit of information out of a story.
from the philly.com piece:
‘The menu clearly states, “18 percent gratuity added to check of parties of 6 of more,” and a similar message is printed on receipts, a pub employee said this morning.’
I’m not saying this isn’t something that shouldn’t be fought, as I agree that a ‘mandatory gratuity’ is an oxymoron, but it’s certainly relevant to the story.
I really hope they do fight it, and some judge actually outlaws ‘mandatory gratuity’ entirely.
The other thing everyone’s missing in this story is that there was probably an exchange of profanity directed against the servers, they finally just called the cops. I would bet that the issue has come up before with other patrons on occasion and cops were never called as there were no threats. You gotta read into these things. These things get out of hand sometimes. Patrons think their digested food doesn’t stink and become so incredibly demanding of these servers, without any good reason.
# 21 Wireylo said : “The other thing everyone’s missing…” Excuse me? How are we “missing” something that was not stated nor even inferred? There is a very good chance no profanity was used since nowhere does the story mention profanity, abusive language or attitudes merely that they refused to pay the 18.5% gratuity. It seems to be only you who resorts to profanity in the face of a dispute.
Personally, since large parties often require more attention from a server, I can understand some need for an additional “service charge.” But, that ain’t a gratuity. Mandatory fees should be disclosed clearly and not printed in 6 point type at the bottom of a menu. And how can it be of any relevance at all if it is printed on the receipt? You done paid by then.
#5 Bobbo – “Tip your doctor????? Its your life compared to a creme brule?”
Mmmm. I like that idea. Maybe I’ll set a tip jar by the exam tables. Warm stethoscope? That’s a buck. Warm speculum? That’s worth five.
I almost always tip 20%. If I am a regular in the place, most times I will get 1 or 2 complimentary drinks (because I tip well, I assume) in which case I add what the bill should be and tip 20% on that. But if I get lousy service I leave a lousy tip. It sends a message. Oh and BTW, sometimes I am offered a tip for computer service…I always politely decline…I am paid well for my service. Some people actually get angry..go figure.
A Tip is a Gratuity, a “Thank You” for excellent service. It is not mandatory, nor is it theft if you don’t provide it. It’s a customary extra that is meant for the people who serviced you while at a certain establishment.
If some braindead, degenerate afterbirth detains or arrests you for not providing it, that is the real crime.
#22–Animby==you are such a doc. Yes, charge that sweet young thing for a warm speculum and expect/desire/yearn for a tip. Heh, heh. If your exam room weren’t so well equipped, you could charge the ladies for your manicures?
Still, congrats on taking Wireylo to task. the hypo as stated provides enough to quibble on.
I always leave 15%-35% tip, and I always feel the payment is a rip-off for me. The server spends, what appears to be, 2.5 minutes serving me, and expects $10?
Tipping adds stress to an evening out, and is unnecessary.
If a tip is required, then factor it into the fucking price of the food and drink!
People who run businesses that have this kind of pratice are slimy bastards, whether they know it or not.
Ok..
Tips have changed over the YEARS..
1. you cant HIRE a person on TIPS ONLY.
2. the LOWEST paid persons in the USA are farm workers, in Min wage. NEXT is Food servers.
3. Look up the word GRATUITOUS/Gratuity.
A tip has gone from being a bonus for good work (TIP = To Insure Promptness) to supplementing the income of the wait staff.
The system has put the customer in the position to decide if the wait staff can make a living wage that day.
No solution here. Just observations.
To all the people who have said they never tip, or only in exceptional circumstances: you are cheap bastards.
If you live in a place where waiters live by their tips you should tip. If you live in a place where it’s included in the food cost then you don’t need to.
If you are a notorious non-tipper and frequent a restaurant you ARE likely to get a return gratuity.
#13
In the old old days there was no political correctness, you can’t compare.
I tip well when it is justified.
I don’t tip at all for lousy service.
I have never been to a restaurant where tips were mandatory, but if I would see one I would simply refuse to dine there.