Since our current system doesn’t work what with continually rising costs that are unsustainable, millions uninsured, the country’s financial health in bad shape and on and on, what should we do? With so many aspects and facets to the problem to consider, which ones are most important?
From minor tweaks to scrapping it all and starting over, where do you stand?
Look at the question from two perspectives. First, what would you do if you could wave a magic wand and start over without politicians being involved? In other words, the health care system of your dreams.
Second, given where we are and the idiotic political realities of the US these days, what are the politically and monetarily feasible changes to what we now have that you would like to see?
#62, But it also makes Thomas Jefferson uniquely irrelevant in any debate about healthcare.
Then you don’t believe in the Declaration of Independence?
So just like america grew and put slavery behind it, it can also grow and make health care a right.
You can’t “make” something a Right. You can only make privileges. Rights are inherent.
Perhaps you should read up on exactly where Rights come from.
At the point of a gun if need be. With the bloody deaths of half a million people if need be.
Bring it on, fat boy.
#63, Fido said, “Four Legs Good, Two Legs Bad!”
#67
No death panels needed. Let Darwin take his course at no expense to the public.
Or, I have a compromise for you. I’ll be happy to pay full healthcare for life to any person who receives voluntary sterilization PRIOR to producing any offspring.
#66 Dude, I’m embarrassed for you. Still flogging that dead horse. Why don’t you stop avoiding the questions?
#64
ok my bad.
Do you suppose that slave girl that Thomas Jefferson raped had the benefit of his personal doctor? Or did she give birth to those kids in a dirty unsanitary barn somewhere?
Maybe it was the realization that his own children were now slaves is why he freed them. Maybe if she had died in child birth, there next to the farm animals, they would not have been freed?
Circumstaces of birth indeed.
#68
consider it brought.
Oh and a recap, you are losing:). We are already sliding down the slope to single payer:)
for all the hyperbole in media, the now passed health care bill was a decisive defeat for republicans.
You are on the losing side of history.
If you don’t want health care, to bad you are jailbound if you don’t get it.
At the point of a gun.
#71, I’ve already answered it, at his request.
Then he carried his ass off into a corner to hide.
Typical liberal hypocrite — a challenge for you guys only works one way.
#73, I’m really surprised you feel this way.
You can give the Obamessiah a pass for his lies and faults, but you can’t give Jefferson one?
Another hypocritical Obamabot.
#73, You would really take the food out of 25 people’s mouths to prove a point?
That’s what would happen if you sent me to jail. No one to run the company, no one to sign the checks, no one to bring in new business.
Dude, you really are a hard ass.
#73, all the hyperbole in media, the now passed health care bill was a decisive defeat for republicans.
Um, I’m not a republican.
And it wasn’t just a loss for them. It was a loss for everyone . . . including you. You just don’t see it yet.
But you will.
I’ll say again: LL, put your money where your mouth is. You’re a free man, it’s a free country, it’s a free market. If you don’t like paying your taxes in America, go find some other place where you can pay less taxes. And good luck in whatever third world hellhole you find with lower taxes than the U.S. Because all the other civilized countries have tax rates higher than the U.S.
So go ahead, act on those free market principles you supposedly value so highly. Find another country that offers you more for your tax dollar. It’s a free market, like I said. Sell your business, take your money and go someplace we won’t hear your endless bitching. Put your money where your mouth is, or STFU.
#78, Woah! I must have hit a sore spot with you.
America is the last hope for a free market. Just about everywhere else, collectivism has taken root and started to rot the core out.
But what I don’t understand is if it is so bad here, why do you stay?
#77
don’t care if you don’t like the republican brand. You are still a republican. Although the brand is so damaged I can empathize with why you foreswear the brand.
None the less, lock and load! Get health insurance or the soldiers are gonna shoot you.
#79 I don’t think it’s so bad here, pal. You’re the one endlessly bitching about taxes. Bitch, bitch, bitch. Whine, whine, whine. The obvious question is: why don’t you do something about it? America will never be your libertarian paradise. You need to come to terms with that. You will always be paying taxes in America. You want a tax-free haven, you’re going to have to leave.
btw I deliver freight for the us federal government. Sign my check and pay me or go to jail sucka.
#80 Good point, Postman. I feel sorry for all the wingnuts here protesting that they’re not Republicans. They waddle, swim, and quack like Republicans, but they swear they’re not. Just goes to show how far off the edge the Republican party has gone. Either that, or the wingnuts have gone so far over the edge that the Republican party looks like flaming libruls to them.
#79==Loser==”Last hope for a free market” === and pink unicorns as well. What a dolt.
Say, speaking of unanswered questions revealing “character” I still haven’t seen you answer how little money you would take to kill a stranger by hitting a magic button. You have already amply demonstrated your value system is based on your immediate emotional wants and desires, so this question is far more important/telling/revealing than your own question.
So how much? The movie on that theme offers people One Million Dollars? How little would you take??? How many times would you press the button??
The theater of the absurb awaits your performance!!
#72–postman==you say: Do you suppose that slave girl that Thomas Jefferson raped had the benefit of his personal doctor? /// Most slaves did as they were expensive/valuable property.
Or did she give birth to those kids in a dirty unsanitary barn somewhere? /// Most did. I think she (Sally Hemmings?) was a house slave. Could well have had a room.
Maybe it was the realization that his own children were now slaves is why he freed them. /// Well, he freed his non-kiddies too. Quite the “man” wasn’t he??? A LIEBERTARIAN man of his times, as LOSER is in his. Screaming hypocrites both.
Maybe if she had died in child birth, there next to the farm animals, they would not have been freed? /// Yea, who knows?
Circumstaces of birth indeed. /// Yes, the “totality” of the circumstances.
Come to think of it, Newt Gingrich supported that moderate Republican running in that NY23 race. And he was overridden by the Palin/Beck/Limbaugh crowd. When Newt Gingrich is considered too liberal, the Republican party is going way out on the fringe…
#80, Please post your mailing address.
I want to give it to my employees so they can send you “Thank You” cards for your warmhearted feelings.
#81, I don’t think it’s so bad here, pal.
BWAHAHAHAHA!
I’m sorry . . . give me a moment . . .
Whew! I haven’t a good laugh like that in a long time. Thanks!
Now, back on subject — Who is trying to change the very fabric this country is built on because they don’t like it?
Why don’t you do something about it?
I have and I do.
#86, Republican party is going way out on the fringe
Not yet it hasn’t. There is a growing movement within to bring it back to life but right now it’s more liberal than conservative.
You know it’s in the shitter when a republican candidate drops and endorses the democrat.
That was funny.
They’re struggling for control right now.
#89 Fringe wingnuts like LL support the Republican party’s march off the edge. As a liberal and a grudging supporter of the Democrats (wishy-washy as they are), that is very reassuring to me. I hope LL and the other wingnuts boot all the non-wingnuts out of the Republican party. And yes yes, I know LL, you’re not a Republican. Of course not.
Now, back on subject — Who is trying to change the very fabric this country is built on because they don’t like it?
Let’s see — who wants to remove all regulation of large corporations, and leave us to their tender mercies? Who wants to get rid of the EPA, let those big companies dump their toxic waste wherever they want? Who wants to get rid of the SEC, let those nice Wall Street boys do whatever they want? Who wants to get rid of the FDA and the USDA and let those nice food producers and drug manufacturers sell us whatever they want? Who wants to get rid of OSHA and let those nice factory owners get rid of those expensive safety devices? And who wants individual Americans to be forced to sue multi-Billion dollar corporations to get clean air, clean water, honest financial transactions, safe food, safe drugs, and safe workplaces?
Why, that would be you, LL. Any more questions?
#62
Do you not see that your argument against Jefferson has been thoroughly trounced? Your continued use of an ad hominem makes you sound like a fanatic. Further, trying to argue that health care is a right for the good of man while dismissing one of the single greatest proponents of individual rights makes you sound like a hypocritical fool.
#73
> We are already
> sliding down the
> slope to single payer:)
How you figure that is a mystery much like the rest of your arguments. If you think single payer is such a great system, implement in your State. You do not need to wait for the Federal government. Why the big push to do this at the Federal level when there isn’t one State that has done it?
#80
> don’t care if
> you don’t like
> the republican brand.
> You are still a republican.
Is that how it works? Ok, you are a baby killing communist that wishes we had a leader like Stalin. Since, we don’t care about what people say, we can brand them how we wish right? Sheesh. What a loon.
#90, Fringe wingnuts like LL support the Republican party’s march off the edge.
If the edge represents oppression, then yes. I also wish the same for any other party.
Let’s see — who wants to remove all regulation of large corporations, and leave us to their tender mercies?
Keep screaming that. Eventually people will believe it.
#92 How sad, LL. You claim to be a libertarian but you don’t have the guts to admit what libertarianism stands for. You’ve said all those things that I wrote up there, at one time or another, but when I summed it all up, it’s obvious that it’s pretty damn nasty, so you ran away from it.
I know what I stand for. I think free markets only exist with strong regulation, as the originators of capitalism did. I believe that there are some things the free market does best, and some things the government does best. I believe that in a large country, the taxes we pay don’t always go to things we agree with, and that’s the price you pay for living in a large country.
Doesn’t look like you stand for anything except paying lower taxes. Pretty sad. Not just a wingnut, but a cowardly wingnut.
Ick. I’ve had enough of you for the day.
#93, I don’t think I’ve said those things. You’ve just interpreted them that way.
You are going to have to run far to get away from the message.
Thomas,
Jefferson was a slaver, rapist, murderer. I made no argument. Only fanatics would argue otherwise. That you would continue to lionize a man whose moral equivalents are Hitler and Stalin, says more about you than it does about me.
Also quit blaming me for your ignorance. Blame ronald reagon for taking civics and history out of the schools, because both of those topics tend to discredit conservatives.
Shall we move onto the genocide of the Indians, in which multiple republican presidents would be hanged for crimes agains humanity if they were to face justice?
#55 If you do not want to pay taxes to for the betterment of the community, perhaps you should seek your own island. Lemmie know how that works out for you. Oh, wait. you won’t be able to because you’ll have no infrastructure. No one is forcing you to live here.
Of all the crap that our Gov subsidizes, why not health care? Why not take care of the populace? Isn’t gov supposed to serve the populace? We’re paying for health care now through insurance, who takes their cut off the top. Why not let the gov run it, eliminate that mark-up and provide coverage for MORE people? TELL ME WHY??
re>”Unalienable means it can’t be taken away”
…and are you telling me it’s ok to take away someones life because they lack insurance or a means to pay for treatment? So, it is ok to take their life through INACTION when we have the means and technology to help them? Where’s your compassion for your fellow man? What happens when it’s YOUR life? What happens when YOU need $140,000 cancer treatments? What then?
#61 perhaps you would prefer being manhandled by Dr. McCoy? 😉
#96
if he is walking around handing out mood altering stims as much as McCoy did I would have no issue with it!