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#29–Beonarri==still fighting?? hah, hah. Well, I agree with everything you post there BUT you are wrong when it comes to equating a patriot with a humanitarian for the reasons stated as well as implied.
Lets approach it this way: do you have a single dictionary/written authority to suggest that people who have concerns for humanity are acting as patriots?
Further, if patriots are in fact humanitarians, then what is a humanitarian? YOu see the damage your wishy washy undisciplined thinking does?
I support and admire your desire to make humanitarianism a higher value than patriotism, but that can only happen by keeping the concept and the words that embody them different and distinct.
Keep thinking. Ultimately you will agree or not.
Always amusing to see otherwise intelligent people refuse to learn. How does that happen? Am I being a humanitarian, a patriot, or a scoundrel in trying to move you towards the light?
#30–fred==you just get better and better. Yahoo? Whoknew?
For mine, the idea of Patriot is too closely linked to the idea of state and authority. That may have been noble once upon a time when the State idealised freedom of thought and action. These days its represents, for me, one who is committed to the authority of the State. A fascist, if you will.
In any case I agree with Beonarri’s humanist sentiments. Humanism defines character in a way that patriotism may have done in ye olden days.
#26 soundwash
I saw enough of third parties in the form of Ross Perot, an insane Texas billionaire, and more recently in the Libertarians, who I believe have no clue how government works or how to run it. And, for at least another four elections the two-party system is going to be around. You can try to change the system from without or from within, either way works.
Besides, not every political party is going to be the every ideal one person can have. I happen to vote Democrat because more of the ideals they have meet with mine, and they have fewer insane-religious-racists. Most ideals have too many subtleties for a single person or party possibly represent it.
For instance, I think that small arms should be regulated heavily because they’re used in most gun crimes. Heavy weapons (ie, assault rifles) need only a little more regulation than a small arms simply to keep them a step further away from those who’d use them for some insane purpose (ie bringing it to a non-violent protest for some insane reason). But then there are non-gun arms, such as swords, knives, clubs, sticks, etc. which don’t really need regulation aside from, maybe, a carry permit of some kind. This could also bring about topics related to martial arts and turning ones-own-body into a weapon.
Now, a gun nut would just say, “youer can’t take mah gun!!!111 IT’S IN THER CONSTIRTUTION!!!!11 WWWRRRAAAGGGGGG!!!!11111”
And, an anti-gun-nut would say, “we need to keep as few guns on the street as possible.”
Pretty much every issue is like that. There are the two insane arguments and the rational, reasoned nuanced one.
The country could use more active parties, but it’s something that won’t realistically happen anytime soon.
My goodness: 100 years ago, 100 years in the future, this word meant/will mean “whatever.”
Who lives in the here and now?
#31 bobbo
What authority do I have? I have the brain’s authority. It has millions of years of evolution behind it with the ability consider it’s own existence compared to its place in the world around it. It’s the only authority I have and need, in fact, it’s the only authority anyone has, whether they know it or not.
Just because something is written with consensus doesn’t make it true. Things that are in writing are persuasive. Am I saying all things written under authority are untrue? No, of course not. But, because something is written down doesn’t mean it is set in a stone for ages to marvel at.
Since we’re on patriotism and United States political thought, consider the 3/5s Compromise. It’s written in the Constitution that a black person is equal to 3/5s a white person. Is that true? Of course not, but it’s written in the founding document that people hold up as a golden rule. The compromise was un-done later, with amendments, as people came to realize that it was wrong. Additionally, that moved political thought, the moral zeitgeist, and the human brain’s evolutionary thought processes forward.
Also, there is no damage done by me using the term patriot in the ways I mentioned. I’ve also not been wishy-washy at anytime during this internet banter. My thoughts have been clear and focused.
I’m also going to note, I rarely argue on the internet. No on wins, no consensus is reached, and all parties will just go on believing whatever they thought before the argument. I’m just really bored right now and using this as an opportunity to practice writing.
#35 bobbo
I am the collection of all thoughts that came before me and the beginning of all thoughts to come.
I don’t know who said it, but if I’m the first you can add “-James Piggott” to end of that sentence.
#36–Beonarri==you have loosed your tether. If you ever choose to try it, try using the dictionary to provide some objectivity to your thoughts. Never lose the ability to wander as you do. Compare the two. Synthesize.
Otherwise you will be the ending and beginning of not being clear to anyone else you speak to.
#27 Bobo… Thanks, you provided a perfect example of a pussy who reads this blog that cannot understand true meaning of patriotism… you look at the link I provided and see someone who died in a war. I see service and sacrifice. I agree that Petty Officer Milam’s sacrifice is an extreme example, but all service to community or country is patriotic. It doesn’t have to be a warrior in Afghanistan, it could be local police, firemen, or teachers. They serve the rest of us and sacrifice the financial gain of more lucrative fields. I call that patriotism. A kind of patriotism that fat pasty cowards who hide behind their chimpish pseudonyms criticizing those who do serve will never understand.
#40–DJ==like all too many, on anything except slavish agreement, you take offense. Nowhere did I criticize Milams service. Surely “patriotism” and any other characteristic of a man must be individually assessed==otherwise you are being categorical.
OK==as you wish “all firemen” are patriotic. All teachers too. What about those in the military/fire brigarde, teaching service who are spies for Soviet Russia??? Are they also patriots because they are employed in categories you approve of?
Is it possible or impossible that sewer workers are patriotic?
Go to the end of the line and consult with Beonarri about what “words mean” because you are coming off illiterate==which is unpatriotic in my view. Maybe not my view right now, but in one hundred years, I’m sure loving the dictionary will be patriotic.
Dolt.
bobo – I didn’t imply that you criticize the service… I said you don’t understand the concept of service… and I stand by that. You’re a overly verbose, self-important, hypercritical blowhard who knows nothing of service or sacrifice. All you care about is proving others wrong. And, oh by the way, I believe that your average “military/fire brigarde, teaching service who are spies for Soviet Russia and sewer workers” is far more patriotic and knows more about service and sacrifice than you.
#42–DJ==sure. You don’t know who I am, what I’ve done, what I have not done. No, the blog is about “ideas” even if our activist editor is having fun posting this item under “humor.”
Words have meaning. YOU seem to define many of them in your unique way. When I call someone a pussy who doesn’t understand the meaning of a word, I DO MEAN to be expressly critical.
Is that what you mean by not trying to imply? Anyone twisty enough to gain meaning by denying a negative wouldn’t be miscuing the word/concept of patriotism to begin with, so if consistency is any guide==you simply fail to deal with the issues actually raised and buttress those with additional analysis that is irrelevant.
Good job.
Re read the definition of patriotism. Note it does NOT include anyone in a uniform. Would that it were so, we could all don white smocks and be doctors. Or don’t you think that is what being a doctor means?
Today I was a news photographer in a meeting of the San Francisco Metropolitan Transit Board. They were discussing how they want to expand the parking meter hours to midnight and Sundays. The head guy Nathanial Ford, told me that parking meters’ main reason for existence was NOT for revenue, but rather, to make parking available. Another city official echoed this as the reason for parking meters.
My question to him was, “Well, if that’s true, why do you guys keep raising the parking fines?”
Of course no answer except a smug grin and shrug.
Jerks.
They won’t even admit that it is all about a punitative income device, and they couldn’t live without the money.
BTW, a ticket for an expired meter in the fucked up city of San Francisco is now $63.00.
But don’t worry. It’s just to keep cars rotating in and out of parking places so we can “Spread the parking around….”
And, uh, Bobbo… Don’t you think you can spare us all SIXTEEN FUCKING comments?????????
@ Bobbo’s comment to some royal ugly dude:
“Is that what you mean by not trying to imply?”
Life is more than word games. Figure this out before it is too late.
#45–Faxon==16? Who knew? But yours must then be the 16th response deserving of this my 17th response. Yes==if you respond to me, I will respond to you as long as the conversation goes forward.
I agree the meters are to move the traffic. The fines are to pay for the enforcement system to keep the meters keeping the traffic moving. Its like a little eco system.
#46–HMyers==thats true, but learning to think is hardly much more.
A patriot is a person who loves his country regardless of the assholes who run it.
Personally I see nothing ‘good’ about being a patriot. No one chooses where to be born, so why the hell should they owe any allegiance. I find this akin to being baptised as a baby and because of that one finds oneself part of a religous community. It also parallels racial or cultural pride in the same way. It seems to me to be a source of pride for cowards and morons. They are the inertia holding back evolution.
Love your country. Hate your government.
#51-Joe
We also love our country and hate Obama and his Chicago-style Thugocracy. A day will come when that treasonous hack will be neutered and properity will have a chance to thrive once again.
#52 clap clap clap clap
Rush couldn’t have said it any better! Good little dittohead. 🙂
Once again the wingnuts are projecting their own faults onto those they hate. If you wanted to see “thugocracy” you could have looked at Congress when it was controlled by Republicans during Dubya’s reign of error. The R’s ruthlessly shut the D’s out of all legislative activity.
And now, Obama babbles about bipartisanship, still begging the Republicans to work with him. While they continually tell him to go f*ck himself. That’s not thugocracy, that’s pussocracy. 🙁
#53-Phydeau-Obama babbles about bipartisanship, still begging the Republicans to work with him.
Obama only babbles and begs for bipartisanship so he can blame Republicans when his delusions of grandeur decapitates his community organizer head.
He is a teleprompter reading treasonous hack that is stealing freedoms at record pace and you defend this atrocity. why? Because you hate Bush.
Perhaps you should stop living in the past and take a glimpse at the present.
On the patriotism thread: George Patton supposedly observed that in war, “Don’t be a fool and die for your country. Let the other sonofabitch die for his.” That should be kept in mind by anyone in the military. Yes, I did a hitch in the Army for a few years…
On Obama: he’s a work in progress, but he’s already more competent than George Dubya ever was. Of course, the kid flipping burgers at McD’s is more competent than Dubya.
#56 Thanks for that copy’n’paste job, from wherever you got it. Very dramatic. I especially like “His exploits of intimidation toward US citizens are now epic”. It’s all just verbal diarrhea but hey, whatever makes you feel good.
#58-Phydeau-Thanks for that copy’n’paste job…
You’re funny.
I sometimes forget liberals can’t think until the approved text is received from the Democrat Party. The old lord n’ master Obama’s stamp of approval before words just words can be disseminated among the flock and detractors.
#40, DJ,
It doesn’t have to be a warrior in Afghanistan, it could be local police, firemen, or teachers. They serve the rest of us and sacrifice the financial gain of more lucrative fields. I call that patriotism.
And I call that bullshit.
Is a community hired policeman a better person (patriot) that a privately hired security guard? What about a teacher at a private school compared to a public school teacher? Why does someone’s employer determine if they are a good person or patriot?
Anyone who strives to make this country a better place because it is the right thing to do is a patriot. Not one more and not one less.
And BTW, I did serve. And I do try to make this country a little better every day.
#49, Hopper,
A patriot is a person who loves his country regardless of the assholes who run it. and the Libertarians and Republicans out to destroy it.
#50–amodedoma==thank you. I meant to get around to that and never quite fit it in. I think that is the key, and the resolution to the patriot/humanitarian confusion. Patriot all too often is a manufactured manipulation to use and take advantage other people==something the Doodiepants crowd love to do. Humanitarians as such know no country==actually not patriots at all. Imagine Doctors healing the enemy, not very patriotic.
Yes, words have meaning.
#59, Dr. Dudd,
Before Obama was inaugurated, the right wing nuts were telling us how Obama was going to raise taxes. The only tax increase to date, the tobacco increase to subsidize CHIP, was agreed on before he took office.
After Obama took office they blamed him for the recession he was left with. Then, quite the opposite of his predecessor, he acted and got a stimulus act through Congress. So the right wing nuts blamed him for that too.
They blamed him because his financial bailout package came with strings where the previous package didn’t.
Then he took a vacation with his family after several long hard months in office. So the right wing nuts berated him for that and for (are you ready?) wearing shorts in public!
They were aghast that the First Family actually dug up some of the White House grounds for a vegetable garden.
Now the right wing nuts have been trotting a list with no end on lies about a health insurance reform bill and the financial institution regulations making their ways through Congress.
To help the cause, Obama went to Copenhagen to help boost Chicago’s chances of landing the Olympic games. And the whole right wing nut bloggoshere went completely ballistic that a sitting President would actually want to help out his country.
Not to mention the hideous racial slurs thrown his way by the right wing nut leaders.
You idiots cry that he isn’t doing anything and then you cry that he is doing something. As my father used to tell me, “Either shit or get off the pot”.