Real fake Fake fake
An Italian scientist says he has reproduced the Shroud of Turin, a feat that he says proves definitively that the linen some Christians revere as Jesus Christ’s burial cloth is a medieval fake.
The shroud, measuring 14 feet, 4 inches by 3 feet, 7 inches bears the image, eerily reversed like a photographic negative, of a crucified man some believers say is Christ.
“We have shown that is possible to reproduce something which has the same characteristics as the Shroud,” Luigi Garlaschelli, who is due to illustrate the results at a conference on the para-normal this weekend in northern Italy, said on Monday.
Just because you can “duplicate” something does not automatically make it a fake. Not that I believe in all that neo-political religious clap trap
Well duh, they carbon dated back in 1988, not even close to the time of Christ. Curiously close to the era of Da Vinci. Some speculate the Leonardo used primitive photographic technique(a giant pinhole camera) to ‘make’ the shroud. This doesn’t mean the thing’s a fake, it just makes it an icon of faith. Many(most/all) of the relics that exsist were handed down through the ages and have passed through the hands of many dubious humans.
Well of course it is a fake.
The “jesus” depicted on the shroud was of Etruscan/Umbrian origin.
Most art depicting Jesus is of either Greek/Italian manufacture. Depicting Jesus as a real Jew by pre-20th century Christians would have been an act of heresy.
Cursor_
The sheeple will be all over this.
So scientists using modern techniques have duplicated the efforts of a 12-14th relic faker? Impressive.
I’ve always suspected the shroud to be in the same class as 95% of relics from that era, fake. That doesn’t diminish my or anyone else’s religious views, it just reflects the sad state of the religion in that era preceding the Protestant Reformation.
There are four left on Craig’s List.
I hear there is some breaking news that new investigative techniques are indicating the earth may be more than 7000 years old.
Surely, if that idea is confirmed, it will rock the christian world.
#5: What are you talking about? Where exactly do you think I said that?
The “reversed” thing is not totally true, as you can easily see if you just download the image and invert it (ie. make it a positive) on photoshop: You don’t get a positive. Around the 70’s some scientists put the data through a computer model and using it as an elevation map got a lot closer to a representation of a person. And that’s consistent with the contact “burn in” produced by the technique described.
So, the theories about the “photographic nature of the shroud (even the Leonardo one…) are moot.
The earth is probably over 18 billion years old. It was re-terra formed about 7ooo years ago. The Bible doe not refer to such an instance of the shroud of turin or else it would have been mentioned in Acts.
Christ was seen by over 120 eyewitnesses whose accounts are also mentioned in historical writings at the time besides the New Testament. Do you know where you are going after you die?
earlwallace
#9 Uncle Dave
I was quoting the article (that you posted / quoted). I mistakenly thought it was your commentary. I didn’t click-thru because I had already read about it. Whoops.
No surprise here..
all religions are upside and inside out warped fakes of the original mythologies.
move along, nothing to see..
-s
Al Gore invented the Shroud of Turin.
#11, earl,
Christ was seen by over 120 eyewitnesses whose accounts are also mentioned in historical writings at the time besides the New Testament. Do you know where you are going after you die?
earl
Do you have names for these 120 people? Can you point us to these “historical writings” you mentioned.
After I die I won’t give a shit where my body goes.
And Earl, didn’t the Dixie Chicks stuff you into a trunk a few years back?
“The shroud, measuring 14 feet, 4 inches by 3 feet, 7 inches bears the image…”
Jesus must have been a tall motherfucker!
http://tinyurl.com/yaxjjwv
Religion, claiming to have the monopoly on truth, is always being outpaced by science, which is a continuing, self-correcting, non-perfect, system of ascertaining the reality of existence.
Religion had it’s day, totally fucked the world up, and aftermath continues to fuck us all over.
Do you think we would be having a war in Iraq if there were no religious fanatic murderers?
Disclaimer:
I have degrees in geology, biology, physics, and evolutionary science. I don’t have a minister’s fancy cloak.
I don’t remember anything in the last season of Battlestar Galactica that even mentioned the Shroud of Turin. And that show clearly explained the origin of human life on Earth.
#11 ” Do you know where you are going after you die? ”
Disneyland?
I have always been immensely impressed with the amazing creativity of some of the forgers.
Of course the Shroud of Turin is a fake, Duh!
I also think it is a work of art, and should be in a museum.
Science itself is run through with dogma and people who react unkindly when their own accepted view of history is challenged by a contrary view, even that which is backed up by carefully authenticated data. (And as a prime example, look at North American archeology and what happens when bones and tools that correspond with earlier migrations has been handled, anything from Kennewick Man on.)
As for the shroud itself, I thought scientists had detected traces of human hormone that is produced as the result of extreme stress and/or physical torture. Regardless, good points made concerning linen strips, etc.
SO…What?
This is a paper (pdf) for consideration
I’ll never look at my Shroud of Turin shower curtain the same way.
#25 – qb, I use mine as a drop cloth.
They both look like bikers.
While it’s not surprising that this is a fake… it’s still pretty impressive who managed to pull this off all those years ago. Regardless, there is no reason to even consider the shroud as anything other than an interesting piece of cloth. No theologian ever put any credence in the claims of those who touted this as authentic.
^^^^^^^^^^^^WHACK JOB!^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The Shroud of Turin is no more a fake than the sunrise. It is a shroud. Old, circa about 1300 or so. Their is an image on it. Nor is that fake.
What is obviously fake is the claim it is the burial shroud of Hey Zeus, oopps, Jesus. But the Catholic Church isn’t claiming it is the burial shroud of Hey, (ahem) … Jesus. Others, with an agenda are.
Any true Christian could care less if the shroud is real or fake. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For we walk by faith, not by sight.
#30 – Bitch! You told me the little birther had a moment of clarity and finally put the revolver in his mouth and mustered up the sack to pull the trigger. I thought the endless whining was over and that he had gone on to his heavenly reward (boy is he in for a shock).
I want this month’s child support check back, it’s playoff time and I need to go buy some scalped Dodger tickets.