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#41 GF
No I don’t mean that at all. I mean it doesn’t exist so your question is meaningless.
That and it has nothing to do with health care.
# 37 “freddybobs68k”
So, you won’t be sending in that $3,800? That’s disappointing. Damn it, I’m going to have to be blunt here. What kind of cold heartless bastard are you?
#40–cornholder==I don’t care, but are the same people actually doing both? Not “some group of actors” but the actual same people? Does it matter?
#43–freddy==you normally are on target. Here you are missing that when a government takes on too much obligation, it goes bankrupt and fails to deliver. Some say Raygun broke the USSR by creating ruinous weapons/space race. To whatever degree that is true, its a clever analysis to say we didn’t do the same thing to ourselves by that tactic==or maybe not clever at all.
Lets see: Cold War Warrior Raygun with Star Wars Defense + BushtheRetard tax cuts for Rich while deregulating high risk capital skimoffs = financial collapse. Gee, not that hard.
In the end, inflation is the default position of all mismanaged economies and that always hurts the old people most as they can’t “earn” their way out of it.
#38 Pope Alfred the 1st
“Jesus commands His followers heal the sick, and alleviate poverty….”
Precisely so. So how in hell (excuse me – how in heaven) do you expect someone who is sick and poor and has no health insurance to become healed?
Clearly (see your statement, above) it is the responsibility of the followers of Jesus (of whom I assume you to be one) to provide, either directly or indirectly, for the healing process.
That is exactly what universal health care is all about.
#45 bobbo
‘Here you are missing that when a government takes on too much obligation, it goes bankrupt and fails to deliver’
Sure. But that seems a tenuous objection. Why? Because universal health care can cost us less per capita, as it does in other countries. So is the argument that we must have universal health care so we _don’t_ go bankrupt? I’m fairly confident that’s not where GF is coming from. But if so I’m happy for him/her to correct me.
Its also tenuous because such logic isn’t applied to say the continuing war in Iraq and Afghanistan. You might say that Afghanistan was one of the main catalysts for the ‘bankrupting’ of the USSR. Again I’m fairly sure GF is not in his question suggesting that will pull out of Afghanistan. Again I’m happy to be corrected on that point.
# 16 (Alfred) Actually we don’t live much on our offshore oilproduction. Everything we (the state) make on oil we invest in foreign companys (Norwegian Petroleum fund) because it would create inflation in our small country. Some say we may never spend the money we make on oil unless we do like Saudi Arabia, which we wont.
All parties except the “progress party” (similar to your republican party) has agreed not to use more than the surplus from that fund.
Because we belive in strich regulations in Norway we have one of the worlds safest and environmental-friendly oilproduction in the world. We are one of the worlds most regulated country and we love it 🙂
#18 I would say we got freedom even though it is our government who provides us healthcare. We can freely choose which hospital and doctors to cure us and if our national hospitals can’t provide the healthcare we need, the state will pay for our treatment in private hospirals or abroad.
Regulations is not taking away your freedom, its about making rules for how things are done. And if your politicans are’nt corrupt it should benefit you.
I guess the difference between the US and other western countrys is that you have lost all your faith in politicans (If you ever had faith in them?) and by then don’t trust them. If we don’t trust our politicans, we get rid of them.
But I guess transparancy is easier to achive in a small country like ours than in a big superpower like yours…
# 29 PEDRO :
Sure some hospitals are having problems, just because the state runs them does not mean we are immune against idiots running them. I have never said it is perfect, but NONE in Norway dies of ANY disease because they can’t afford the treatment. Does our doctors make mistakes? YES. Does our government make mistakes? YES. They are humans!
MUSLIM PARTY? Which party is that? Actually NO representatives from muslim countries got elected to our parlament this year, which every party (except the progress party – similar to your rep.prty) thinks is a BIG democratic problem!
Know the facts before you speak Pedro!
Correction to above post:
I meant that no muslim politicians got elected.
#49 filosofxit
I reckon your explanation is pretty much on the money.
The thing that is perhaps hard to appreciate from outside the US is how much the country is motivated by fear. Fear of your neighbor, fear of the government, fear of big business, fear of losing your job, fear of poor people, fear of immigrants, fear of the devil, fear of drugs, fear of guns, fear for your kids, fear for your stuff and on and on and on.
I think we should listen to Alan Grayson’s comments on the Republican health care plan.
He should be on SNL. Very Funny!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-usmvYOPfco
I’m still waiting for someone who opposes universal health care to explain to me how it is not in the interests of national security and prosperity to have a healthy population?
Still waiting…
Cursor_
# 52 freddybobs68k said,
“The thing that is perhaps hard to appreciate from outside the US is how much the country is motivated by fear.”
****
Wow! did you ever hit the nail on the head with that one sentence!
*****
–
Quote from the movie “Defending Your Life” (1991)
–
Bob Diamond: “Being from Earth, as you are, and using as little of your brain as you do, your life has pretty much been devoted to dealing with fear.”
Daniel Miller: “It has?”
Bob Diamond: “Well everybody on Earth deals with fear — that’s what little brains do.”
Daniel Miller – “What are ‘little brains’?”
Bob Diamond – “That’s what we call you folks behind your back.”
# 52 freddtbobs68k :
Yeah I understand that it is about the money. We don’t like taxes much here in Norway as well, but as long as our politicans spends our taxmoney on things that benefit us we are happy. Only a few rich people in Norway say taxes are “stealing” and even they don’t take their money and “escapes” to a “better” country.
I understand that you have serious problems, but you are a superpower, maybe the ONLY superpower. You have some of the smartest people in the world. EVERY country admires you (BUSH dragged you down quite a bit). You just have to do what you do best – innovate. Make the good things better and leave the bad things behind.
We all love america, just not everything you do.
WOW! So many of you people are SOOOOO wrong! You’re all arguing whether public health care is good or bad, and basing your arguments on current conditions in the USA without it and/or current conditions in other countries that have it. The real issue is not weather it’s good or bad, it’s how would it work IN THIS COUNTRY with THIS GOVERNMENT running it. Our current system is so broken, that it makes me want to cry. YES, WE WANT OUR HEALTH CARE FIXED!!! The problem is that the bill that they have proposed is a pile of shit that will break it far worse. It may even break this entire country… permanently. Why on earth would any of you want ANY health care plan that your government WON’T USE ON ITSELF? Our government is so corrupt right now that it should not be running anything. You people are at each other’s throats because you think the other guy’s elected official is an ass hole. But really he has no representative. Just like you. Our government gave us ALL the finger many years ago, and it’s a finger that they have convinced us to point at each other while they go on with their own selfish plans. But go on fighting amongst yourselves if you’re still stupid enough to think that your government or political party is looking out for you.
#59 filosofxit
Communication breakdown!
‘You are on the money’ = I agree with you.
My mistake for using a stupid colloquialism, and worse I can’t speak anything other than English 🙂
Filo and Freddy === miscommunicating all over the place and each making more sense than anyone else on this thread.
Can I get an Amen? NO? Tax break?
reality.
to get insurance from an employer.
1. the employer must give you over 32 hours employment.
2. They must pay Workmans comp, for on the job accidents.
3. they/you must pay YOUR MEDICAL insurance.
BASIC insurance will cost you and the employer over $100 per month. If you want better insurance to COVER the family, its MORE.
According to the health bill, it will cost 7-10% of the employees wages, NO MATTER the number of hours. PAID by the employer(mostly by you and not getting the extra 0.50 per hour) AND it covers the WHOLE family.
ALSO, that if you QUIT or are FIRED or even layd off.. YOU STILL get coverage and so does your family.
The ONLY inequity we have..
is the RICH paying their fair share, as they LOVE private medicine.
THE RICH dont even pay Social security, as they have their OWN retirement funds.
Those retirement funds are PART of the corp/company and IF’ the company WANTS TO NOT PAY or ends up BROKE…these rich folks end up on SOCIAL SECURITY..(ask delta airlines about this)
WE all need to pay into the system. and then it WONT BE BROKE.
#62 Bobbo
“Filo and Freddy === miscommunicating all over the place and each making more sense than anyone else on this thread.”
‘Let us make a special effort to stop communicating with each other, so we can have some conversation.’ – Mark Twain
🙂
#61 freddybobs68k
I should say sorry; I’m on a ENGLISH website and should have read your post one more time. 🙂
#63 Pedro
So you condemn the way we run our hospitals and “stuff” because people steal from their coworkers and hospitals? Sorry, but WTF?
BTW : I’m on my way to a heavy metal concert now. Subsidized by our state, because they think culture should be for EVERYONE!
Peace!
# 48 “freddybobs68k” “Because universal health care can cost us less per capita, as it does in other countries.”
Really? You mean it will be cheaper when it becomes mandatory just like auto insurance became cheaper after it became mandatory.8-|
I’d love to pull out of Afgahnistan. That would mean that Osama has met his demise. I was really happy Obama wanted to expand the war to Pakistan so he could get Osama and we could move on. And hella yes I’m glad we’re getting out of Iraq.
It’s a good thing we have those common folk to show us what we really think. And by “we” I mean the minority of Americans from polling for public option support.
#50 filosofxit:
“And if your politicans are’nt corrupt it should benefit you.”
LOLOL
dude, this is like, exactly our problem with big gov’t. That’s why we broke off from England.
but, whatevs. Human nature has changed since then! not.
#72 Alfred1 said,
“they are proposing a massive, government run system, that will bankrupt the country, destroy the quality of our health care, encourage all of Mexico to move here, and kill off our elderly.”
Well Alfred1 sure helps prove the point that America is all about fear. Be it imagined or real, we pretty much just eat, drink and bath in fear.
http://guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/01/lobbyists-millions-obama-healthcare-reform
According to the Guardian, there are six registered healthcare industry lobbyists for every member of Congress.
The industry and interest groups have spent $380m (£238m) in recent months influencing healthcare legislation through lobbying, advertising and in direct political contributions to members of Congress. The largest contribution, totaling close to $1.5m, has gone to the chairman of the senate committee drafting the new law.
$380 Million can buy a lot of bullsh*t. And people like Alfie and pedro swallow it hook, line, and sinker.
# 69 Pedro :
You may say what you want, but the fact is (and I am quite drunk now) our government does not force us to listen to whatever they think is right for us (like a fascist state you are talking about would) they just want everybody in Norway to have the same opportunity to experience the same as the people in other parts of the country/world (where I come from it would cost a fortune to have a BIG band play for 40-50 people if it was not subsidized). And by the way; the fact that you don’t think heavy meatal is culture says more about you, and by our standards you would be the fascist in this case.
If they were in fact fascists, as you say, they would dictate that heavy metal is not culture and therefore give us Josh Groban or whatever or nothing at all.
MY POINT is that doing something other then what your right wing lobyists are saying does not mean it TAKES AWAY your freedom!
I REALLY apologize for my bad english and that I am drunk. I have to go to bed now, I have go to work tomorrow. My fascist state has dictated to my employer that he can not fire me because I got hangover tomorrow…
PEACE!
To everyone : I really am drunk now. Please pay no attention to me 😀
SORRY!
I think its just underpaid unknown actors in the 2nd video who are bitter about their overpaid and more talented actors in the first video.
All this talk about charity being the “Christian” thing to do . How charitabe is it to give money at gun point or the threat of jatime?
Hey filosofixit, can you take Alfie with you next time you go to one of your Norwegian heavy metal concerts? I’m sure he’d love these guys:
http://laweekly.com/slideshow/view/192544/1
Good luck with that hangover and your boss tomorrow! LOL