STONY BROOK, N.Y. (CBS) ―They’re upset over an ultimatum from the health department. Workers are being told to either get the swine flu vaccine or lose their jobs.
New York is the first state in the country to mandate flu vaccinations for its health care workers. The first doses of swine flu vaccine will be available beginning next week. Much of it is reserved for state health care workers, but there is growing opposition to required innoculations.
Health care workers in Hauppauge screamed “No forced shots!” as they rallied Tuesday against the state regulation requiring them to roll up their sleeves. “I don’t even tend to the sick. I am in the nutrition field. They are telling me I must get the shot because I work in a health clinic setting,” said Paula Small, a Women, Infants and Children health care worker. Small said she will refuse, worried the vaccine is untested and unproven, leaving her vulnerable. In 1976, there were some deaths associated with a swine flu vaccination.
Registered nurse Frank Mannino, 50, was also angry. He said the state regulation violates his personal freedom and civil rights. “And now I will lose my job if I don’t take the regular flu shot or the swine flu shot.” When asked if he’s willing to lose his job, Mannino said, “Absolutely. I will not take it, will not be forced. This is still America.”
The protest also shook Albany Tuesday. Hundreds of demonstrators demanded freedom of choice. After all, as health care professionals they argue they’re already constantly washing their hands and aren’t likely to transmit or contract the flu.
This doesn’t exactly instill confidence in the general public does it?
# 31 bobbo, are we of science or devo said, on September 30th, 2009 at 11:47 am
“First you post that vaccines don’t work, and then you ask for information on how they work.”
I actually said flu shots don’t work because by the next year the virus has mutated. Polio, smallpox, and whooping cough don’t seem to do that because you don’t need a new vaccine for the shot every year. Also these vaccines had years of clinical tests that show their effectiveness. The H1N1 vaccine does not have this background.
“In this age of google, missing such basics is really an embarrassment. Learn to use google. Its your friend.”
Probably should googled or checked Wikipedia. It is just slightly different then I thought. The wikipedia article did mention the themerisol controversy.
“Its ‘Science’ Benji. Science. If you aren’t a man of science, how do you define your relationship to the universe?”
Science is asking questions about how the universe works and finding answers to those questions.
#32–There you go Benjamin==again, you “could have” gotten all pissy with my condescending attitude, but you didn’t go there. Thats a good attitude.
Keep reading. The flu virus does mutate all the time. THAT means the original virus and the new virus are both in the environment. You have protection against the older virus either by vaccine or by exposure. Each “new” virus does not have years of testing, its brand new—except “parts” of each virus are understood in varying degrees. Thats why its called H1N1 and there are loads of letters and numbers to describe the different known factors. Its how science is staying only a little bit behind the virus and why the swine flu is of concern to those who have spent their lives fighting the little beastie. It very much resembles in structure and early history the 1918 Epidemic that killed millions. As with that epidemic, once you get sick, the vaccine won’t cure you. You get dead with this illness, or thats the fear if it mutates again.
So–this issue really does require JUDGEMENT based on KNOWLEDGE. If you don’t have both, take the vaccine. Its the kind of faith you should believe in. But always be ready to question as I have in Post #29.
Its simply not enough to identify the “dangers” of vaccines. Until you balance that risk off against the risk of not vaccinating, you have only looked at part of the equation. Silly to do that.
#32 – Benjamin,
What? No response to the fact that you can’t tell a full strength viral infection from a weakened or dead virus that increases your immune response to the real thing? Oh well. So much for your basic knowledge of medical science. Until you figure out this most basic fact of vaccinations, I’d suggest that you likely have nothing to add to this conversation.
@Benjamin – #26
The difference is that one is a dead virus cable of provoking an immune response and one is a live virus cable of provoking an immune response AND causing disease.
The immune system generates antibodies and trains white blood cells based on the shell of the virus. The problem with the flu is that the shell and genetic material in it are highly variable and mutate quickly.
I asked Bobbo and he provided a link that discribed it better than you. My initial thought was they somehow removed the RNA strand from the protein shell of the virus which would cause the immune system to recognize the virus when the real one came, but not allow the virus to reproduce. After reading the article, that is not exactly how it is done. They heat it up and kill it and that is were they get the vaccine.
I was just confused about the mechanism.
Improbus said, on September 30th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
@Benjamin – #26
The difference is that one is a dead virus cable of provoking an immune response and one is a live virus cable of provoking an immune response AND causing disease.
The immune system generates antibodies and trains white blood cells based on the shell of the virus. The problem with the flu is that the shell and genetic material in it are highly variable and mutate quickly.
#39–Jim==only an idiot “trusts” anything without verification and some reserve doubt. Only an idiot thinks some exception invalidates a general rule.
What does your exception mean to you Jim?
#40. Ah, as I thought…your explanation was but another way to expose your ass.
But for your benefit, and just in case you missed the question. How is it remotely possible that they “accidentally” shipped live virus to these other countries.
Only a straight answer will suffice…all your tap dancing will just be recorded as a Fail.
I look forward to next spring when this blows over as did Sars and Bird Flu, yada yada. And the next ‘nothing to see here’ crisis arises so bobbo can pontificate, and I can laugh in his face.
#41–Jim==pull your head out of your ass and recognize your question was answered directly. I went to the premise of your question. “Don’t Trust.” I guess you still won’t understand how to incorporate that response. Surprise me.
#42–Larry==me too. Who doesn’t enjoy missing an epidemic AND having a good laugh?
Science = Pontif???????
Where is your head Larry?
A few things:
First, just because someone works in the healthcare field does not mean the person loses his/her right to decide what medical treatments to undergo. As for the people talking about being infected by a healthcare worker – they are right. They might be. They may also be infected by the lady at the grocery store check-out, the people sitting next to them in the doctor’s waiting room, the clerk at the post office or their own children. If a person is immune-suppressed, the hospital is the worst place in the world to be because you will be surrounded by sick people – the healthcare workers are the least of their worries.
Second, the swine-flu vaccine has not been thoroughly tested. How could it have been? It hasn’t been out long enough. The last time a swine-flu vaccine was rushed through with millions of people getting vaccinated, it led to hundreds if not thousands of deaths, and left many others with life-long disabilities. It also led to millions of dollars in lawsuits against the producers of the vaccine. Of course our government has taken care that this will not happen this time – they have made the producers of the vaccine immune from lawsuits. I wonder why they felt that was necessary if the vaccine is so safe?
Third, those of us that don’t want this vaccine aren’t necessarily wackos – though I will admit there are a few of those on the anti-swine flu vaccine side. I don’t believe that flu vaccines are very effective. I don’t believe the swine flu vaccine has been proven safe, though I admit it hasn’t been proven unsafe either. I believe that everyone has the right to decide for themselves what type of medical treatments/drugs they want – that includes vaccines. I don’t believe that healthcare workers somehow lose that right simply because of where they work.
If this was a high risk disease I would have voted yes.
As it is the risks from the disease for those that contract it seems rather low and the safety of the vaccine has not been demonstrated.
“Absolutely. I will not take it, will not be forced. This is still America.” – Yeah, this is still America, but just barely.
#47–Dobie:
A few things:
You do realize you have done nothing but repeat a position taken in this thread and thoroughly answered by the original link and/or this thread?
It is rather blaze ((with an acute accent over the “e”)) of yourself to post that way==completely irrelevant. Why don’t you try again and actually confront your opponents? You might even learn something “from yourself” if you just try a little bit——-to think.
McCullough said:
“This doesn’t exactly instill confidence in the general public does it?”
Nor does it help my confidence in health care workers. If these were the people I had to rely on for my health care, I think I’d move.
Read this article.