[Kenneth] Hoagland had refinanced his Nashville home to pay off the $25,000 tab for his weeklong diabetes-related stay at Southern Hills Medical Center. The new mortgage left Hoagland out of medical debt but afraid to get sick again. Unfortunately, he did. In 2004, Hoagland was in a health insurance waiting period on a new job when a cold turned into two days at Vanderbilt University Medical Center. This time, the bill was just over $1,200.
When a collection attorney working for Vanderbilt filed suit in 2005, Hoagland was afraid to take time off from work to show up in court. After a series of hearings, attempts to collect the debt and what Hoagland says were genuine efforts to pay it, an attorney working for Vanderbilt asked a judge to issue what’s known as a body attachment.
One Friday in late 2008, a sheriff’s deputy went to Hoagland’s home. Because he was at work, Hoagland was allowed to turn himself in the following Monday.
“They fingerprinted me, took my picture and asked some questions about my medical history,” he said. “When the guy who tested (my blood sugar) asked me why I was there and I told him … he said, ‘I didn’t know we did that in this country.’ I told him, ‘Until now, I didn’t either.’ “
#35, free markets and socialized medicine
BWAHAHAHA!!
How can the market be free if the someone is telling you how to do business?
Get a clue.
Nitroneo said “No one has a right to medical care. If one assumes such a right, it endorses the notion that some individuals have a right to someone else’s life and property. This totally contradicts the principles of liberty.”
Not American so I’m asking a naive question. Don’t Americans have the right to “Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”? But millions of Americans lose out on their right to life and pursuit of happiness currently. So some rights supersede others?
And then you say that some people will have a right (jurisdiction I’m guessing) to someone else’s life. You totally lost me there.
#38
are you laughing at this concept because you have looked into other countries are applyiing it and think that it is not working, or is it just because you can’t comprehend how it may work
#40, No, those two are mutually exclusive.
You cannot have a free market is the market is not free to choose its own path.
#39, Read this for an explanation.
Once again Uncle Dave shows his incredible biased reporting with an out and out bald faced lie of a headline.
The guy did not land in jail for getting sick.
He missed 3 fucking court appearances.
When Hoagland missed a hearing because of a work emergency, the court ruled in his absence that Vanderbilt was due the full amount. He missed two more court dates aimed at determining his assets.
Alfred1 will be first in line for the public option and lie about saying he was against it. You watch.
Phydeau, then why do rich people from those other countries with better health care come to the US for treatment? Less wealthy people will even go to India for treatment.
#46 If rich people do come to America for health care, so what? No health care system that I know provides the best of the best health care for everyone. Some of it’s just too expensive. So people with means use their means to go where they can get the most advanced technology. Currently, that’s the U.S.
And yes, that means rationing of health care for the non-rich. Right now in the U.S. it’s done by insurance companies, in other countries it’s done by the government.
We must keep the markets free so that business is able to continue to cheat and abuse the general public.
Many of the businesses that resist regulation and reform (like banking and health care)don’t operate as free markets now.
Of course the parasite will object to being removed.
ok, I’ve scanned through the comments and seen the arguments defending this guy being jailed because he missed court hearing. Keep in mind these hearings were because of a medical bill. So when you boil it down, he was locked up because he didn’t pay a bill no matter how anyone wants to defend it.
What I have yet to see is anyone in favor of the bowel movement being passed off as “reform” in the senate defending jailing people for not buying health insurance. I’m sure I could hear “oh, the bill doesn’t have any jail penalty, just fines.” Well, what happens when you don’t pay the IRS (who will be enforcing the fines) money they say you owe? That’s right…people with badges and guns come take you and put you in a cage. So I’ll ask again, and probably be ignored again, you supporters of this “reform”, why are you in favor of jailing people for not having health insurance? This isn’t like car insurance where if you don’t want it, you can just take the bus. This is pay up or else.
#47, How can you have a free market if the market is told how to behave? I am flabbergasted you think it can still be so.
My only guess is you don’t have the first idea what “free” means. Here is one I found:
“Exempt from external authority, interference, restriction, etc.”
Since the market is interfered with by an external authority exerting restrictions, I would say this is not a “free” market.
Let’s look at it this way — if you take 50% of someone’s money, do they have that money to spend on something else? No. This tells the market that those goods are not wanted.
Any market that is given wrong information is not free to work as it wants.
Get it now?
Oooh Alfred1 popped a clog. But he did have a point, and its the MAJOR issue with universal health care. A lot of people just don’t want to contribute to someone else’s health care. Its that simple. The good old fuck you I’m all right syndrome.
Its not about free markets (there’s no such animal), its about mother making you share your toys with the other kids.
The rich go to America for health care because the system is geared to support the rich. If you’re wealthy, it works well. For the rest of us, subsidised care where a sudden illness wont bankrupt us is the aim of the exercise.
Care here in Australia is not perfect. Hospitals have continual budget issues and waiting lists. But if I need an emergency operation and a stay in hospital, it wont bankrupt me. If I have enough money for private care, I have that option too.
I have no great love for government but health care is too important to be left to profit driven corporations. Government is in the best position to be able to deliver care without profit motive.
So where are these rich people going to go when the US gets socialized medicine?
#56 MikeN
I hear they have a lot of doctors in Cuba!
Seriously, presumably there there will still be a private medical industry to cater for the rich. I cant imagine the wealthy sharing a waiting room with the great unwashed.
Small observation. The Republicans claim to have posted some things they think need doing to reform health care on their party web site.
Texas, California and a few other states have vastly reduced the cost of insurance by tort reform so that would seem to be a major first move if you actually want to deal with the cost of medical care.
#58–do-ill==”Texas, California and a few other states have vastly reduced the cost of insurance by tort reform” /// Define “vastly.”
Tort reform limits recovery that affects malpractice premiums which have never been a driver of health care costs.
Do you have any info/links that are factual as opposed to conclusionary?
#23, Alfred1
This story is bull****. As a Canadian physician living in Alberta your story just doesn’t make sense. From the symptoms provided, she would have had an MRI as soon as possible and most likely qualified for the surgery right away. The time frames are imaginary.
And yes, I read the article. It just isn’t true.
Since she could no longer “cross country ski” onset was about March or maybe April. If her appointment was for the end of September, that would be a six month wait. Nope. Don’t happen, except in someones imagination.
If she was given an 18 mth wait it was only because the condition was minor. My experience is that if she was in serious condition she would have been scheduled immediately for surgery.
No, from someone inside the system here, the story is missing too many details and belies what really happens. I think there is some exaggeration from someone.
#46, MikeN
… why do rich people from those other countries with better health care come to the US for treatment? Less wealthy people will even go to India for treatment.
Other than those coming from third world countries, please tell us who is coming to the US from industrialized nations, with health care, for medical treatment?
Who is going to India? Geeze, maybe mostly Americans who can’t afford the American prices and don’t have insurance.
That really sux man! I am not from US.. here they do not give us money if we are sick.. we have to pay for ourselfs, if we have the money. If not… well, that`s it… we can die..
#51, Liberty Loser,
#47, How can you have a free market if the market is told how to behave? I am flabbergasted you think it can still be so.
My only guess is you don’t have the first idea what “free” means.
My guess is that YOU don’t understand what “free” means.
YOU are not “free” to do what ever the hell you want in OUR society. That means WE set the rules on how all of US behave. YOU do not set the rules on how YOU expect US to behave.
Because WE are free. We will not be YOUR slaves, peons, serfs, or whatever. If WE decide WE want something, then it is up to US to make it work.
If YOU don’t want to operate under the rules of OUR society, don’t. YOU may cry all you want, but WE are a free people with a RIGHT to health care. WE, the people, want our universal health care.
And I personally, would like to see those that are against the American way and the Constitution expelled from this country. You idiots that invent crap like “free markets are the only way” or “health care is not a right, it enslaves the giver” are full of it.
Yup, this guy was really screwed up by the governments actions. Guess the best solution is to give the government more power and get it involved in more of our lives.
#63, Ralph,
So to you, freedom means straight up majority rules. If the largest number of people want something, the minority who doesn’t should pack up and leave. No matter what burden the majority chooses to impose, freedom means telling the minority to suck it up.
Do you argue that same point when you are in the minority on some issue?
#64–Nosolution==it was excessive healthcare bills that got this guy into trouble. Getting the government involved to get rid of for-profit medicine so that all guys can just get what they need and not have to worry about courts is EXACTLY what government is good for.
How can you miss that?
#65–I’vegotyourNumber==In America “freedom” is being defined by what a rich entrenched connected minority want thru the corruption of our elected politicians.
It would be nice if the majority did rule.
#66 – Bobbo
He certainly had a problem with owing money he couldn’t repay. Quite a big problem, I’ve been there myself. BUT
The power of the government to put people into prisons is what got this guy put into a prison. They really hate it when they tell someone to show up and they don’t.
How can you miss that?
#68–NoSolution==I didn’t miss it. I weighed it. In the civilized world, in other western countries, it is common to get arrested when you fail to appear. Its only in America that it is even possible to find yourself in court based on a cost of health care issue.
So, on balance, evaluating this issue as a “failure to appear” is really to be mislead or to fail to see the originating cause and the failure of American Society to provide.
I don’t think you missed that, I don’t think you are ignoring that. I think you are trying to mislead anyone who reads your faulty screed.
Tell us again what the more important issue here is for America?
#69-Bobbo,
So in weighing things you feel that the cause of the underlying debt is more important than the proximate cause of his loss of liberty?
I hate debt, and I’d hate to have more of it and I hated when it was past my means to pay. But I’d feel far greater rage at the guy who puts me in jail than the people who I owed money to.
And I certainly wouldn’t be in a mood to give them even greater power over me.
#70–NoSolutions==from the header: “One Friday in late 2008, a sheriff’s deputy went to Hoagland’s home. Because he was at work, Hoagland was allowed to turn himself in the following Monday.” /// Loss of Liberty????? Rage????? In Jail??????
What article are you reading? Why don’t you join us here in the real world on EARTH–third planet from the sun. Looks like you should pick up a dictionary too.
Silly boy.
#71 -Bobbo
Man has big problems.
Government makes problems much, much worse.
Let’s give government more power.
Silly boy.
You see nothing about loss of liberty in an article who’s title includes the word “Jail?” Why not join us in the real world, where jail = loss of liberty?
Interesting how quickly you obfuscate and insult. Show’s how strong you think your argument is.
I look forward to seeing how low you choose to go in your next post.