Can a vein save a convicted killer? It the case of Romell Broom—it might. Broom was sentenced to death for raping and murdering 14-year-old Tryna Middleton on Sept. 21, 1984. Broom isn’t supposed to be alive to witness the 25th anniversary of Middleton’s death—but he is. Last Tuesday, the execution team at the Southern Ohio Correctional Facility spent several hours trying unsuccessfully to find a viable vein for a lethal injection. Now, Ohio is faced with the difficult task of determining whether it can try to execute Broom a second time, after it botched the first attempt.
Broom’s execution was originally rescheduled for Sept. 22—but that won’t be his last day either. On Friday, U.S. District Judge Gregory Frost issued a 10-day temporary restraining order that will prohibit the second execution attempt from happening. A new execution date cannot be set unless someone, it could be the state or the victim’s family, files a motion with the Ohio Supreme Court. So far, no motion has been submitted. In the meantime, Broom’s attorney will begin to litigate U.S. Constitution, Ohio Constitution, and Ohio statutory claims on his client’s behalf. “Broom should not be executed because the state tried once and failed,” said Tim Sweeney, Broom’s defense attorney. Sweeney hopes Broom’s prison sentence will be converted from death row to life in prison.
Newsweek – Sep 21, 2009:
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# 57 bobbo,
By all mean bobbo, pleas post “your” definition of dichotomy.
It’s very amusing how you argue. My 9 year old can argue more cogently then you.
I am not against the death penalty nor am I for it. I waiver, I vacillate. I wimp out.
As to how many tries? You only need one. Sadly, they use poorly trained technicians to insert the IVs. As a couple of people above have pointed out there are other veins that can be used instead of just the one in the elbow (the antecubital fossa). With a couple of weeks of training these people could be using the external jugular vein or the subclavian vein. And if these, too are of no use, it is a minor surgical procedure to dissect the overlaying tissues and expose a vein. Done many times every day in a hospital (called a cutdown).
The problem, of course, is that Ohio doesn’t execute enough people to keep a well-trained team. Is it time to bring back professional executioners? (Great movie from the early 70s: The Traveling Executioner.)
The other problem with executions is we’ve don’t like to see blood. That’s inhumane! How inhumane is lethal injection? First they give you an oral sedative to calm you down. Then, on the cart, they stick a plug up your ass so you don’t crap your panties in front of the witnesses. Ditto, a tube up your pee apparatus to keep your knickers nice and dry. (The body has a nasty habit of releasing these unspeakables when it terminally relaxes.) Then the tense moments of getting the needle in and working well before the curtains are opened and you are presented to the world for their amusement, entertainment and appeasement.
Seems to me a surprise bullet to the back of the head would be a lot more humane.
Better, yet. Because we go to so much effort to make sure someone has every chance to defend themselves or present evidence that shows they aren’t really a bad person for their particular crime, it can cost a veritable fortune to kill someone. I’m talking 20 – 25 MILLION dollars per execution. Yet, to keep someone incarcerated in a max facility is only about $100K per year. So basically the cost of execution can be as much as a 200 year prison sentence.
Let ’em rot in prison.
#58 & 59
I would not be comfortable with taking the life of someone I was not 110% sure was responsible for the hypothetical raped and murdered loved one, but I agree that at the time I probably wouldn’t care to do the numbers.
In any case, is this rough justice worth the potential cost of getting it wrong and killing an innocent person? Is it right that 1 innocent in 100 guilty (or 1 in 10 or 20 or 50) pays the price for our lust for revenge?
I’m not sure that it does.
>> Benjamin said, on September 22nd, 2009 at 8:27 am
>> Get a rope. That is a quick and painless execution. No vein required.
I think there have been failed hangings — from the olden days, anyway.
Er. Last line should read “I’m not sure that it is”. Getting dyslexic in my old age.
bobbo, splitting hairs and debating “doubt” and “think” and theoretical possibilities is getting boring. You may think no one has clearly thought out all theoretical possibilities as well as you. I see someone debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. I get a strong whiff of condescension from you on this one. Whatever floats your boat, dude.
#65==Phydeau==don’t let yourself off the hook so easily. I constantly find myself not writing as clearly as I am capable of thinking. Then I have to concentrate and get things right. Sometimes, that exercise alone makes me change an idea or two. We all love “feeling” ourselves to be more perfect creatures than we are.
I can never know how clearly you think, but what you post is just factually incorrect. When you don’t respond accurately to what was initally posted, should anyone just “assume” agreement or disagreement?
Note to nosense: See how I used agreement or disagreement? THAT was a dichotomy.
If you want to know how I define a word, and how YOU should define a word, use any standard issue dictionary.
#62–Hugh==you crack me up. Seems that with 110% surety, you still want to waffle with the potential cost of getting it wrong? What does 110% mean in your allocation of surety?
#62==Hugh==lets take a hypothetical.
YOU are on vacation. While there, someone breaks into your neighbors house and kill and rape the wife, the guy, the two kids, and the family dog. As Richard Pryor noted after giving a comedy routine at San Quentin and asking a convict why he did it, the response was “Well, they were home.”
Now, the house has silent and audible alarms with “You have been detected, the cops have been called, leave this house immediately.” but they don’t do that. They go ahead and kill, rape, and underperform the PETA 10 step Program. Everything is on Home VideoTape Security Camera’s and the cops get there as the thugs are leaving the house. Thugs have a long rap sheet and had just broken out of jail killing 3 guards for a very similar crime. At trial, they say they did it because they were bored and wanted some excitement. It was fun, they’d like to do it again. They plan on killing as many prison guards as possible when sent back to prison. What have they got to lose? Lie Detector and Brain Scans say “Yep they did it.” Oh, and just for you, they had also kidnapped a school bus of little kiddies and buried it and wouldn’t say where until the kiddies had suffocated. Why not–nothing to lose.
So, there’s the crime and the proof. Would you be upset if these people were put to death or would it be “wrong?”
#67 Bobbo
Just because someone 110% sure of something doesn’t make it true. Unless they a solipsist. 😉
Are you saying that the possibility an innocent death wouldn’t trouble you, as long as your blood lust was sated?
65 Phydeau,
“bobbo, splitting hairs and debating “doubt” and “think” and theoretical possibilities”
I guess I am not the only one who noticed.
My read is, bobbo hypothetical is his way of dodging responding to the winning merits of a debate by steering it into a area he feels he can win.
That is, he is not mature enough to wrestle honestly with the issues.
I am still waiting # 57 bobbo, post “your” definition of dichotomy.
#69–Now Hugh==it would be fun, but I’m just not going to take the time to create a hypothetical and then have you skip over it. But, not to be pedantic
wouldn’t it be wrong, as in morally reprehensible, not to execute these thugs? How many prison guards must die or put their lives at risk given the overtly sub-human declarations of these admitted criminals? What “value” are you really championing?
Personally, I agree that life in prison would satisfy me, but trying to personalize these issue to me isn’t the issue. YOU said it is wrong, then waffled around 720 degrees, and I’m just trying to find the limits of your spiral.
Note: we all have preferences and what we would do ourselves. Calling someone else “wrong” is a whole other issue.
Lets say with all the evidence above, somehow after their execution it is shown they were not the guilty ones? Would I feel bad? No. They would have then falsely or erroneously admitted to the crime. Somewhere, someone’s god would be laughing.
#62 Bobbo
Cant say I’d want to structure a justice system around your outrageous hypothetical. In this case however, it wouldn’t upset me if they were executed, but since its wrong to take the life of another I would prefer to see them rot in jail.
#72–Hugh==great!! Then we can end this thread on agreement. Ain’t life wonderful?
# 71 bobbo, persuit of truth has no meaning.
“Lets say with all the evidence above, somehow after their execution it is shown they were not the guilty ones? Would I feel bad? No.”
Wow, how sad and how narcissistic. No feelings, no Conscience, no morals, no outrage.
#74–nosense==hurts to be irrelevant doesn’t it? Hah, hah. Now THAT was condescending!!!! Yeap, use the dictionary meaning of words and you too can discuss the big issues with adults.
# 75 bobbo, words have no meaning
I am still waiting since # 57 bobbo, post to show “your” definition of dichotomy.
Or as it is beginning to show, your a hypocrite?
Oh, by the way I am always condescending to hypocrites, dishonest (intellectually or otherwise) people.
Bobbo – just curious: in your hypothetical, would the fact the perpetrators were videoed without their express consent, constitute unlawful testimony and violate their Constitutional right against self-incrimination? Betcha some smart lawyerfella could make it so…
Also, under a PETA administration, would doggy rape be a capital offense? How ’bout if the doggy agreed and shook hands on it? I have no immediate plans but it’s nice to understand the options.
#77–Animby==Lets see, would that have been assumed with the audible warning that was given- probably not. “AND your continued presence in this home constitutes your consent to be filmed?” All good home security systems have that little white and red sign out front advertising that the property is under security? Well, we justice seekers can only hope that the perps go with a Public Defender who has never watched Law&Order and that YOU don’t switch professions!!
Speaking of yappy dogs–nosense==use any definition you can find in the dictionary. Note how distinctly different it is from how you used it. Note further I said so. Note I gave you an example of its proper use. I mean, really!!!! How deficient can you be and still expect to be part of any conversation. Up your game!
Let’s see convicted of raping and murdering a 14 yo. Lethal injection’s too good for this guy. Get a cutting torch and a vicegrip, have doctors present to keep him alive as long as possible(at least a week), film it all, and force other sex offenders to watch it.
#66, #68: Sigh… you can set up your hypothetical world in any way you want to justify whatever you want. Why stop there with that crime scenario? Let’s add that if we don’t execute the murderers, the world will stop spinning and plunge into the sun, killing all six billion of us. Wouldn’t that be justification for execution? huh? huh? Gotcha, says bobbo! You admitted you’re in favor of capital punishment! (bobbo does the happy little victory dance)
Sigh… you win, bobbo. If putting those guys in jail for life instead of executing them would cause the earth to fall into the sun, killing all 6 billion of us, I would definitely be in favor of capital punishment. Enjoy your happy little victory dance.
Phydeau–why are your panties in a bunch?
I’m not setting up any hypothetical world.
The hypothetical does not proceed according to “my” design but rather by how you answer. YOU have always been in control.
You still don’t respond with any understanding of what a hypothetical is. You are smart enough, must be something “emotional.”
So touchy. Imagine if it mattered?
# 78 bobbo, the dumb coward
“use any definition you can find in the dictionary. Note how distinctly different it is from how you used it. Note further I said so.”
Interesting, what is the “it” you are referring too, that is; which word?
You still persist in not posting your definition and then you say “Note further I said so”.
This infers you think of your self as the only authoritative reference here.
Circular logic, how convenient, how cowardly and how dumb.
“This infers you think of your self as the only authoritative reference here.” /// That is really stupid. My entire point is that myself and anyone else should use DICTIONARY MEANINGS of words. How is that making myself the only authority?
bobbo, if you don’t think you’re setting up a hypothetical situation in a hypothetical world in #68, then we really have no common ground to have a discussion on. I don’t know what words mean to you, apparently they don’t mean the same as what they mean to me. And having a debate over what words really mean would be boring to me.
Phydeau: “I don’t know what words mean to you,” //// Yea, I’ve kept that a mystery.
I don’t like the idea of the death penalty, but I don’t think I should let my emotions get in the way of proper justice.
Also, if they ever got rid of the death penalty and replaced it with life without parole, the anti-death-penalty liberals would start complaining about the inhumanity of life in prison, and insisting on parole and other things. So the death penalty makes a good buffer.
# 86 MikeN said, “…liberals would start complaining about the inhumanity of life in prison…”
Zero sum. They already do. No change.
I don’t know about the death penalty, but I’m pretty sure being poked with long needles by technicians for two hours is “cruel and unusual.”