President Obama said Wednesday night that under his health care reform plan “no federal dollars will be used to fund abortions.” But legislation making its way through Congress would allow a government-run insurance plan to cover abortions, and that sets the stage for conservatives to launch what is likely to be the next big, cable-ready fight in the health care debate.
The battle is centering on whether health care reform uses taxpayer money to pay for abortions, a practice that is now largely banned. Pro-lifers have been activating their grassroots supporters and liberals have started distributing talking points to Democratic lawmakers in preparation for the showdown.
The issue has been on a slow boil for months. It picked up steam during the rancorous August town halls, but was largely drowned out by arguments over whether the bill creates death panels and cuts seniors’ Medicare benefits. (Quick answers: no and possibly.)
But with Congress back in session and critics in full attack mode, abortion has the potential to explode with a vengeance and become the divisive health care flavor of the week.
Alfred, guess what…
YOU ALREADY FUND MURDER!
Your tax dollars pay for the wars in which your country is engaged in, which is killing thousands of people, many of whom are innocent.
#70, A semantic error.
Semantic error or Freudian Slip?
72, LibertyLover
Semantic. I was typing with your thoughts still in head. You know that conversation in English is pretty loose and a lot of words get dropped due to familiarity of the conversation… Lazy typing is all…
#73, ok.
Do you know of any women, personally, who have been raped and ended up pregnant?
Or are you just trolling? You are pro-choice, so I am wondering why you are taking the side of the pro-lifers?
Troll: anyone posting who does not know a woman who has been raped and ended up pregnant.
Wow. Good to Know!
74, LibertyLover
No. Fortunately I do not. I’m not “pro-choice” or “pro-life” as it is defined by groups… I believe strongly in womens health issues, and abortion is a womans health issue. Frankly, I’m not big on what you would call convenience abortions since I personally believe that any baby can grow up and become a world changer in so many ways… or a murderer I guess. I tend to be optimistic. BUT, most importantly, womens health matters must take precedence here. Abortions will happen whether legal or not. But, the safety of women is only ensured when it is legal and accessible to all…
Ah I love it when people talk about mothers and women as vessels of some sacred object. Oh how different this debate would be if men could conceive.
I also love it when people say they refuse to fund someone else’s idiocy. Of course when your idiot child goes cow-tippin’ and breaks his leg or ruptures his spleen after a run in with an angry bovine beast, it’s other people’s premiums that help offset the cost of your idiot kid’s surgeries so you end up with less to pay overall. Your wimpy insurance premiums don’t cover that entire category of idiocy. And there is not real idiot tax as of yet–well, except the lottery maybe.
Is it so different because you voluntarily pay insurance for coverage? You’re still paying for someone else’s problems–so very un-American.
The rising National Fundamentalist is showing its true colors the more tyrannical it becomes.
Its impossible I am allowed freedom of religion if my money is not used to abort unwanted fetuses …that denies a fundamental tenet of my religion and, by the way, the Constitutional right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
#76, I believe I stated the same thing (Of course, I added the caveat that the Federal Government doesn’t have the legal authority to fund them.).
So, why were you busting my balls? Payback?
79 LibertyLover
Because I believe In public universal health care and this is a health care matter.
And some payback
Goring has only got one ball,
Hitler’s are so very small,
Himmlers so very similar
and Goebbles has no balls at all,
While LIEBERTARIAN thinks dingle berries count.
Cut to the chase : Legal abortion is the law of the land. In addition, it is a Healthcare issue.
Should it be part of Health Insurance reform ? YES
Why is Obama not including it? Because the Christian Taliban has achieved significant infiltration into government and Obama recognizes this.
Therefore, the prudent thing to do to advance Health Insurance reform is drop this hot potato off the agenda. PERIOD.
I would do the same thing as much as it sucks.
Good. I hope that abortion is kept out of healthcare. This way I can recruit more people to be soldiers of mine, while actually preaching to be Christians!
I am so glad that I have deceived so many people into believing that just saying that they are Christians, and not acting like Christians. This will make them my loyal subjects when they arrive in hell!
Does Alfie go off his meds on Fridays so that he’ll be in full blown speaking-in-tongues mode when snake shaking time comes on Sunday?
Hey Alfie, there’s a whole community of real “nazis” out there for ya and their website says their headquarters is in Detroit. Why don’t you and your toy soldiers go there and “deal with them accordingly.”
#84–soundwash==it would be so easy to say only our punctuation and grammar mark us apart, but that wouldn’t be true.
No, I think more could be said. I do take other people/ideas on more directly than your general diatribe.
I agree some will prefer/disdain one approach over the other.
Few of us serve only “one” purpose. If I said you were being a bit disingenuous there for rhetorical purposes, would I be demonstrating your main complaint? Hard to tell since you make only a general response rather than quote and disagree with anything specific I said.
I was fairly direct (strong implication) that I thought you posting on “any” thread that we ought to be talking about something else is not very constructive. Do you disagree with that or are you only drawing me out?
What’s wrong with keeping stupid people from breeding by offering convenient abortions? Lord knows we don’t need any more mouth breathers. Hell, offer then a free gun rack with every procedure and they’ll come in droves. Offer them a TV and they’ll agree to sterilization.
Otherwise for the purpose of stupid people population control, we can open up shelters that euthanize their offspring if they’re not adopted by bleeding-heart liberals.
The entire debate is moot. The Hyde Amendment, passed on September 30, 1976 by the U.S. House by a 207-167 vote is a provision barring the use of federal funds to pay for abortions.
The federal government is barred by law from funding abortios.
#88–Peter==are you saying that no prior law made by Congress can be changed at a later date, or that there is something specific about the Hyde Amendment making it so?
Otherwise isn’t the only non-moot argument that Article “whatever” in the bill moving forward specifically excludes abortion funding or specifically restates the Hyde provision?
Sorry, but I’m trying to live up to soundwashes criticism of me as I haven’t read up enough about how electron theory actually controls this entire discussion.
Unwanted babies is never discussed when it comes to anti-abortionists. They never consider the pain and suffering, and the misery their lives can hold. Children born to parent(s) that are addicted, in poverty, mentally ill, or otherwise unable to parent — are children that are lost, tossed away, and forever unable to function in society. I think a child should be wanted…and better to terminate life before it starts, than to condemn a child to misery, and most likely, an early death. Each right-to-lifer, should make it their duty to go visit the morgue and look at the bodies of children beaten and battered to death by their uncaring parents. Go to the juvenile detention centers and visit with the children — lacking parental compassion, concern, or upbringing — who have become so anti-social that the only answer is to lock them up, for as long as humanly possible. Go to the life sentence part of a prison, and ask them if they were wanted children, if they received the basic modicum of love/caring/parenting.
There are hundreds of thousands of children without families waiting in foster homes, in group homes….in this country. When they turn 18 and are tossed out of the foster system…where will they go, what will they do?
The problem with being anti-abortion, is that you are then guilty of being pro-suffering.
The President said what he said. As George Herbert Walker Bush learned when he said read my lips no more taxes, Obama can’t back up or he’s going to have this speech played ad nausium during his next campaign.
I think it’s fair to say that a lot of people thought he was telling ludicrous lies at the time but time will prove him guilty or his detractors wrong. I don’t expect to be proven wrong.
A growing issue is just how corrupt is acorn and how close are Obama’s ties to it.
So people are defending the funding of abortion, and insisting it is not in the bill.
“President Obama said Wednesday night that under his health care reform plan “no federal dollars will be used to fund abortions.” But legislation making its way through Congress would allow a government-run insurance plan to cover abortions…”
So “YOU LIE” again
97 AlfredETerrorist,
BLASPHEMY. Now you are quoting the Assyrians, who were PAGANS at the time? What would your God say to know that you are taking the laws of PAGANS as your excuse? But, it was a good try, since your King James Edition is obviously lacking…
Don’t even TRY and bring up ancient history with me bud. Just go on planning your latest terrorist plot… psycho.
First death panels, then illegal aliens coverage were removed from the bill, after people said critics were lying about them being in the bill.
Soon abortion coverage will be dropped too.
#80, Ok. So the only thing we disagree on is how it is financed.
Scenario 40:
Just about everyone in your neighborhood has lost their job. You and few other still have their jobs.
The unemployed neighbors take a vote and decide the employed members of their community should pay for the daycare of their kids so they can look for jobs. Their reasoning is the employed members can better afford it. And it is just a small percentage of your income.
What do you do? Tell them to get lost or do it because you agree with them?
He is interesting article. It is not specially about health care but it certainly falls within its bounds.
Yes, it is on the Campaign for Liberty website so many of you will already think it is propaganda, but it brings up some good points on the what rights are and how the government is supposed to protect them and not issue them.
http://tinyurl.com/qlhahs
#101
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what’s for dinner.
Shorter than your example, but yours is probably more to the point.
#103–Alfred==WOW!!! A well phrased zinger that is right on the mark. Well done. Post with this kind of insight more please.
Course you do know who required more birthing of their citizens don’t you?
Thats right===the Nazi’s. I don’t know how “budding Nazi’s” completely change their position on abortion when they finally get power, but it happens on this issue.
Now to LIEBERTARIAN’S well source to dine on some fine propaganda. Always good to start the day with a low calorie high fiber meal.
LIE–don’t worry, I’ll post my review of your wellspring but you’ll have to wait a bit before ignoring my insulting salutation. Hee, hee==a LIEBERTARIAN with FEELINGS. whoa, whoa, whoa, feelings, like I have never had before . . . . . . . .
But before I go trudging off on this gastronomical: disaster
#98–Peggusus==How dumb can you get. Obama says Plan A does not fund abortion. It may or may not get passed. Plan B does fund abortion and it also may or may not get passed.
For you to conflate the two is the mark of an idiot.
According to factcheck.org:
“The president said “no federal dollars will be used to fund abortions.” But the House bill would permit a “public option” to cover all abortions, and would also permit federal subsidies to be used to purchase private insurance that covers all abortions, a point that raises objections from anti-abortion groups. That’s true despite a technical ban on use of taxpayer dollars to pay for abortion coverage.”
Personally, I’m pro choice – but it is disingenous to not see this as a lie. Just cause he’s on my side on this issue, doesn’t mean he didn’t lie.
The strange thing is, why lie … the majority is with him, and probably would love the straightforward “Yes of course we’re going to fund it, like everything that is a health issue … that’s why it’s called health care”
Call people who don’t see that idiots – that’s what they are – when you lie it just weakens the case.
#96
You are so full of it, I can smell it from here.
“no unwanted babies..” bull*hit! Our world is being destroyed by the massive numbers of us..we’re like a plague on the earth. WE are destroying all that god created by our sheer numbers.
We DO not need to keep procreating…in fact, it will be our demise and the demise of all that is around us, all of god’s creatures, and the plants, as well.
But, you “christians” just keep pushing for more, and celebrating the massive families, and claiming that unborn babies are sacred.
I will note that the current crop of christians always pick and choose what they WANT to try and illustrate their evil thoughts. Oh, sure you follow it, to the letter, right? Well, except for the parts about how consuming shellfish consumption is an abomination unto the lord. (I see you at Sizzler’s eating all those shrimp.)
What is it about the current christian thought where you can pick and choose the passages you want to parade out and then pretend that you are superior to the rest of us…which is getting darn old. It is also against what god intended, or don’t you believe that part of the bible? I believe another thing promoted that you do not follow is the “live and let live” and “turn the other cheek”. I see little of that. You do not allow others to live as they do, nor do you step aside, but actually are the agressors and hitting other’s cheeks first. SHAME ON YOU.
You won’t even consider the other side’s point of view. You refuse to understand the basics: Abortion is never taken lightly by any woman. It is not an easy decision, but it is come to with much thought.Iit shows a higher thought process, a careful consideration, and responsibility. The decision to bring a child into the world should never be done for any reason other than with the full commitment to raise that child to be a significant, participating member of society.
From a “christian standpoint”..you should see it as turning that life back to the maker….an allowing that child to bask in his glory until a welcoming womb is found. It is as he intended it, or he would not have allowed man to develop the technology, nor would he have added the use of tools to the rational human’s abilities. If you really believe — then this should be obvious. Certainly, he could stop it if he decided it was a bad thing? Maybe he is not opposed, after all, he does not want little children to suffer. Perhaps he meant a life of suffering, not a moment of termination? He also does not want his animals to suffer..he created them, and the animals are just as glorious in his eyes, are they not?
I will NOTE that Christians often pick and choose which technology they chose to accept. I think reproductive technology that allows fertility to happen (to what god intended to be barren women) should be viewed as the work of the devil, akin to or worse than abortion. But, NOOOO…somehow it’s okay with ya’ll.
I think the multiple-multiple births that the formerly barren women are having is not god’s joy, but god’s anger and a curse. How can you not see that? For a woman that god made barren, or to delay motherhood until she had learned lessons that he had designed for her, but then for her to take matters into her own hands, and thumb her nose at the lord….of course, he would curse her with a litter instead of the child she wanted. How can you see that as anything other than an outright insult to god?!
You should all be ashamed at crossing your lord and making his intentions so twisted. I do not think your god wants man to overrun the earth at the expense of all of god’s other creatures. Did he not create the other creatures of the land, and did he not care for other creatures as he cared for man? I think you are forgetting some key highlights of HIS intentions. Did he want the world HE created fouled by man? We are crapping up his work. We are crowding the planet. Man is like a bad house guest…in the lord’s home. It should not be “the more the merrier” but, instead, asking his forgiveness for wanton procreation. We have made life less than sacred…and if you would travel to any of the crowded places of the world..where babies die for no food, and women curse the child they carry — because of too many people, too little food — you would rethink your fat, lazy, white christian retoric. When it finally becomes apparent to you that humans are the locusts of the earth…..it will be too late.
You are spouting the words of the devil by pushing ahead people reproducing, over the other creatures of the land. I cannot understand how the devil got into the christian religion and is pushing ahead destruction, misery, and overpopulation which is dooming the planet and all the creatures that dwell within it.
Abortion is not evil. It is a small step to help the planet by limiting the number of humans stomping upon it. We should all work to preserve the beauty that god intended.