President Obama said Wednesday night that under his health care reform plan “no federal dollars will be used to fund abortions.” But legislation making its way through Congress would allow a government-run insurance plan to cover abortions, and that sets the stage for conservatives to launch what is likely to be the next big, cable-ready fight in the health care debate.
The battle is centering on whether health care reform uses taxpayer money to pay for abortions, a practice that is now largely banned. Pro-lifers have been activating their grassroots supporters and liberals have started distributing talking points to Democratic lawmakers in preparation for the showdown.
The issue has been on a slow boil for months. It picked up steam during the rancorous August town halls, but was largely drowned out by arguments over whether the bill creates death panels and cuts seniors’ Medicare benefits. (Quick answers: no and possibly.)
But with Congress back in session and critics in full attack mode, abortion has the potential to explode with a vengeance and become the divisive health care flavor of the week.
#31–LIEBERTY LOSER==you say:
1. “I” – – – –
2. “I” – – – – –
then finish with
3. “I” – – – .
Yes, its all about YOU.
Stupid LIEBERTARIAN. Amusing you line up with Alfie ((HEY ALFIE!!!!!)).
Nice to know you support a woman’s right to choose life when it is threatened by a late term pregnancy and that you will only allow her to die for lack of money to pay. Alfie would kill her for the first reason, you for the second. Any real difference?
Well done.
If the government is going to fund antibiotics and antiviral drugs, and cancer surgery, and the police coming to your house to remove (and sometimes kill) robbers, then they should fund abortion.
All of the above are used to rid the host of an unwanted parasite.
And I’m one who can’t prove to you that abortion is not murder. I’m 99% sure it isn’t, but I have never seen it proved, because nobody can prove, one way or another whether a fetus is a human being or not.
My main objection to the laws against abortion is that they are religious in nature and clearly restrict the rights of a known human being (the woman).
#39–Alfie===(((HEY ALFIE, WHATS IT ALL ABOUT???))))
Heh, hey. You make me laugh. Sucked me in again: you are an idiot.
But its working. Not even an ounce of enjoyment in calling you out.
Nice to contrast your religious fixation with that of Sister Mary Handgrenade. I do believe she is a character. Hard to maintain something you’re not over a long period of time. Me being a curmudgeon, not really me at all. You being a religious/Nazi nutbag, not really you at all?
LibertyLover
If her health is in danger, it is a necessity
Define danger.
Alfred1
you are gonna be paying for abortions. Deal with it. Lol
I am shocked … SHOCKED! that no one here has yet used the old cliche’ about wishing that their opponent’s mother would have had an abortion however many years ago.
(And given the rancor of the debate that really does surprise me!)
It’s dead simple: many Americans think unborn children have value and we don’t want our tax money going to kill them. What’s hard to understand? And we’re not going anywhere! At some point I made this personal: I don’t advocate this position because Jebus said so or the Bible did. I made it personal- I personally love these little unborn things and the little trolls they will become. 🙂
#40
incorrect. Abortion kills a person, and so the fuck what??? You have a kidney I need to stay alive. Is it murder if you refuse to give me a kidney??? Nope.
#45
Lol so call the waaambulace. You have to pay and you got no say. Deal with it.
#42: The condition of being susceptible to harm or injury or death beyond what is the accepted norm for a natural childbirth.
Yeah Alfie, we’re all scared of your reich-wing rednecks playing wannabe soldiers and of your vengeful invisible blue-eyes jeebus. Bring ’em on!
Your tax dollars already pay for much worse things than a legal medical procedure.
You and your kind just hate the fact that people have sex and you can’t control them with your fairy tales of hoofed demons and lakes of fire.
#42
Danger =. Woman fells like shoving a vacuume in her cootch cause it gets her off
48 LibertyLover,
So… say some girl was having pre-martial sex with precautions that failed. And her father is going to murder her if she’s pregnant.
Before, you put rape and incest… Well, rape is violence against the woman, but the mother is not in danger due to pregnancy. Incest is how most kings and queens were created. And most of Appalacia and the “red states” I guess. They like guns just like you. Whats the “danger” to the mother there?
Again, too simplistic. Logically, you fail.
But that doesn’t mean I don’t like you…
#51, Again, too simplistic.
Not really. The mother’s life should always take precedence.
I’ll admit that it is a gray area. It’s my opinion, agree with it not.
52 LiberyLover,
“I’ll admit that it is a gray area.”
And that’s just it. Because it’s a gray area it should not be included. Too much nuance ya know?
#45–Rich==typical relgio-nut. NOBODY says the fetus isn’t “of value.” I’ll just have to put you in the Bob/Alfie/LIEBERTARIAN camp of must making bullshit up because you “think” it supports your position.
Sadly for you, when you make shit up, you look and smell like shit too.
Many Americans are just as religiously bound up as you are, but MOST American’s support a woman’s right to choose which is the LAW OF THE LAND. Doesn’t it suck to live in a free land where your theocracy is not in charge?
Now, whats so hard to understand that in a democracy, its the majority of people (yes, thru their reps) that set tax policy? If you don’t want to be a good American, just keep being single issue anti-democratic voters and keep Federal Funding out of the picture. When it finally passes as it ultimately will, then your share of taxes will pay for that and all the other much worse things you don’t take notice of.
Religious Nutbags–don’t know what freedom means.
#53, If the doctor says, “The mother is going to die,” that is pretty rock solid.
Rape is violent and can potentially endanger the child regardless of how careful the mother is. We don’t know if the mother would have picked that man to have a child with — Is he insane (we all might argue yes if he’s out raping people)? Is he genetically challenged (a product of incest himself)? Chances are something like that can be passed to the child.
Incest endangers the child and I don’t think there is any doubt the child could be really messed up.
I didn’t say abortion was mandatory in these conditions, only allowed.
Where is the inconsistency?
Abortion is a personal choice.
I’m against it during the last trimester.
It should be a woman’s choice nonetheless.
Federal funding is no choice.
Coercive force is used to involuntarily extract money from people.
That is bad.
Private abortion clinics OK
Government funded abortion BAD
The only thing that bothers me about this is that I’m helping to subsidize someone else’s irresponsibility or social inconveniences.
Not to mention if the person getting an abortion is a minor, will the doctor be required to inform the parents of said minor? In 2004, Kerry supported not requiring parental notification or consent if their child was getting an abortion. The idea behind this was the father of the baby could also be the father of the pregnant minor.
#55–LIEBERTY LOSER===ok==”Rape is violent and can potentially endanger the child.” /// That has nothing to do with the health of the mother.
The implication here is that you would agree that the government should pay for/provide such abortions? We’ll take that as a yes, and an exception to your LIEBERTARIAN INSENSIBILITIES unless you post back.
Inconsistent? Yes, unavoidably you have painted yourself in the corner, tied a noose around your neck, stood ontop of a pile or old “Realist” magazines, dropped your pants, and are currently beating the monkey.
We are only waiting for that blessed moment.
#55,
“We don’t know if the mother would have picked that man to have a child with — Is he insane (we all might argue yes if he’s out raping people)? Is he genetically challenged (a product of incest himself)? Chances are something like that can be passed to the child.”
And you think that these conditions cant occur during consentual sex?
“The only thing that concerns me is that I live in a free society where other people are allowed to do things that have NO EFFECT ON ME AT ALL, that I disagree with. Course, that assumes I never have to face the same issue. HEY EVERYBODY!!!====being free means doing what I prefer.”
When you take a “moral position” do some more analysis. What factors should raise your preference into a mandate on others?
#59, It’s possible.
However, with a rape, it’s guaranteed something is wrong.
And it should be noted, regardless of how I feel about abortion, it is still illegal for the federal government to fund them under any circumstances.
The States can fund them all they want.
59 MrMiGu for the win.
62 LIbertyLover,
Ahh… the easy way out. People should not be restricted by the barbarity of the state. Inalienable rights should apply to all, not some pre-determined border that you’re born in… unless you don’t like liberty of course.
Rape does nothing to the mother. In fact, lots of rapes are between husbands and wives, ex-wives, boyfriends and girl-friends, ex-girl-friends. I would say a VERY SMALL percentage is a psycho. Now, you would categorize a womans rape to determine eligability? What if she doesn’t want to declare a rape?
Incest may increase odds of birth defects, and so does the age of the woman and man. Should there be an age category for permissible abortions too?
See? It’s all unwieldly when you try and qualify a need. Abortion is a womans health matter and it should apply to all women, all the time all across the US.
#62–HEY LIEBERTY LOSER==how come you aren’t upset that pregnant rape victims can’t get Federal Abortions???
I guess some Liberty Lovers are more equal than others?
Hah, hah.
Rape does nothing to the mother.
Well, I guess that sums it up.
Don’t ya just love the mindgames the photo used for this post plays..
They made the silhouette of the woman into a big penis..(which also “thrusts through the hole in the female symbol) –no doubt to arouse and excite those who see it..to help produce a “heated” debate..
judging by the posts here, it worked.
Seriously, you people get played like a fiddle 24/7 and you don’t even know it.
Healthcare is a non-issue. In 45 years i have never heard *anyone* talk about the need for healthcare reform. only when the pawnmasters in government make it an issue is it an issue.
This current debate is meant only as a distraction to keep everyone’s focus off the death of the dollar, the economy and the country..that is about to take place.
The death panel argument was a non-argument BECAUSE THE DEATH PANELS WERE ALREADY SIGNED INTO LAW IN THE STIMULUS BILL..see section 804 in the bill.
Kathleen Sebelius, Secretary of HHS is the Chairman of the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research. (the so called death panels)
-look it up.
So get over it, we we’re had yet again..obama saves face on a technicality..what would you expect from a lawyer. (all lawyers should be banned from holding government positions)
If the republicans (or the media) were serious about their jobs they would have pointed this out..and looked like heroes, but they didn’t, so they are in on it too..
-get a clue people.
Abortion is Legal, so its a non-debate topic as well..IT WILL BE COVERED, PERIOD.
Language in the stimulus bill indicates [to me] the health care bill will (if it is signed) be signed by November 1st 2009.
If it isn’t signed, it will have served its purpose of keeping everyone from focusing on the economy and discovering the fact that obama hired back all the democrats that were pivotal in changing the banking laws that led to the corruption and collapse of the pending collapse of the U.S. economy and financial markets.
This is the ONLY topic that should be on the tip of American’s tongue today.
Without a sound economy and financial system, the country will collapse into chaos.
Get it through your thick skulls. you’ve been played, hook, line and sinker.
(The debate(s) are scripted and like good little lemmings, you all follow the script.)
my god, you people are so ignorant. it defies logic.
-s
(Ultimately, the *real* topic should be on preparation for the coming changes the planet is going through.
However for that, we all need to act as one people, one harmonic, -in tune with the planet and it’s impending changes. -which obviously wont be happening soon enough-we missed the *initial boat* on that one.)
#66–Hey soundwash==whatever you do, don’t go visit CD Freaks. All they talk about over there is how to record CD’s.
What a bunch of losers. They aren’t even preparing for weather changes that are coming in a few decades/centuries from now. How short sighted.
Holy Crap, Alfie ((((HEY ALFIE))) took a turn towards liberty. Who’d a thunk?
I’m not even going to waste water taking a bath until the I can do so in naturally eco-friendly zero sequestered carbon releasing ocean rise warm water.
Thanks for slapping me back into sensibility!
65 LibertyLover
“Rape does nothing to the mother.
Well, I guess that sums it up.”
A semantic error. Rape does nothing to the mothers health wrt the baby.
But, I guess when you have no logical debate left, you’ll grab the first error and hang on tight. I accept your admission of defeat.
67 AlfredENewman
He’s back.. and it seems after his meds. What? No more talk about martyrism and the death march of millions of Christians? Here… I don’t want you driving on tax payer roads since you’re sub human. Get off now. And no municipal water either. Get some from the Christian well instead. And no police or fire support. Pray to God instead.