President Obama said Wednesday night that under his health care reform plan “no federal dollars will be used to fund abortions.” But legislation making its way through Congress would allow a government-run insurance plan to cover abortions, and that sets the stage for conservatives to launch what is likely to be the next big, cable-ready fight in the health care debate.
The battle is centering on whether health care reform uses taxpayer money to pay for abortions, a practice that is now largely banned. Pro-lifers have been activating their grassroots supporters and liberals have started distributing talking points to Democratic lawmakers in preparation for the showdown.
The issue has been on a slow boil for months. It picked up steam during the rancorous August town halls, but was largely drowned out by arguments over whether the bill creates death panels and cuts seniors’ Medicare benefits. (Quick answers: no and possibly.)
But with Congress back in session and critics in full attack mode, abortion has the potential to explode with a vengeance and become the divisive health care flavor of the week.
So if Obama said no federal dollars will be used to fund abortions, but legislation is going forth, is he lying? Sure, if you put it in seperate legislation apart from the healthcare bill, then he “technically” is telling the truth, but that is certainly disingenuous.
I’m pro-choice, but we shouldn’t force a pro-lifer to spend money via taxes on an abortion that could have been prevented if they’d only have spent a buck on a rubber.
“why not this?” Cause bible thumpers need more kids in their child molesting ‘flock’.
#4
“There are many Christians who will stop paying taxes if its used to kill babies.”
Then they can all go to jail along with the other tax-evaders
#4: Looks like the IRS may need to build some jail cells.
“Abortion is legal and other medical procedures are covered.”
So are breast implants, vasectomies and botox. I don’t want my tax dollars spent on these voluntary procedures. If it’s being done to save the life of the mother or some other similar medically necessary reason fine. In any case the government does not need to be in the insurance business. I oppose this bill for a whole host of other reason.
What’s the big deal with abortion? Unwanted births is a far bigger burden than a bunch of religious zealots… We have free abortion in Canada and WHO CARES? Get over it … Fundamentalists won’t go to clinic for abortions anyway, they will use a fork or some kind of furtive unhealthy-but-unofficial method like a punch in the belly so their parents wont know
This whole debate is sooo 1980 …. what’s next for these freaks if they so easily win this debate? criminalize witchcraft with death penalty ?
10 highaman,
Don’t you get it? American “Christians” LOVE to get up in your grills and tell you how it should be… Just ask that psycho AlfredENewman. He’s making an ass of himself already.
9 Ross,
You’re kinda right… but kinda wrong too. See, with breast implants, people don’t go and fill up balloons with silicone gel and shove them in their chests. But, abortions are one of those things where the vulnerable (think what AlfredENewmans daughter has to do) to terminate an unwanted pregnancy might go and get a soap syringe because they don’t have another option. The risk to womens health increases because they have no options. And this is the key tenent of abortion: not providing it can vastly decrease womens health in a preventable way. Politics out, women saved.
Because it’s a choice, just like sodomy and being a homosexual.
Since the fetus is just a piece of material and doesn’t endanger the life of the carrier, why should we pay to have it removed. We don’t pay to have elective surgery, do you want to pay for sex changes, breast enlargement? If you’re a Demoncrat you probably do, but then you also believe that these things can be covered and the cost of health care can also be lowered, hee haa.
Brainwashed induhvidiuals.
Whatever……………………………
Traaxx
Yeah I get it, perhaps every one should use the “Jesus is forgiveness” argument against them and go to church everyday so they can’t invalidate your assertions by saying you’re not christian enough.
13 TraxxxTroll.
“and doesn’t endanger the life of the carrier”
You obviously know nothing of medical procedures.
The USA, the World, needs more abortions. Little Kiddies deserve parents who love and want them==not religious prisoners forced to do the bidding of our local dingbat Ayatollahs. And after the next generation does manage to get birthed, our society OWES THEM so much more than those same Ayatollahs are currently willing to give/provide/invest in them.
You can rely on hypocrisy and religion having a good does of stupid in it. Its the essentially anti-human aspects that catch you by surprise.
14 highaman
“Jesus is forgiveness”
If you say that to them, they effing kill you! Or bomb your house. They’re certifiable…
I am so tired of this shit, day in and day out. Would someone please pick me up by the scruff of my neck and drop me back into the early 70’s?
Even then, with the war and all of the social crisis it involved, I understood it and most debate while not exactly civil at least it was heartfelt and had meaning.
Today it is so we have something to do and the TV cameras.
They argue against each other to generate ratings and do nothing to provide for the public good. The mainstream media whores have made my paying attention to their bullshit impossible.
How about getting this fuck’n country back on an even keel? Then the political aholes whine and can attack social ills they find.
Health care should NOT be a priority when people can not find work, keep their homes or PAY for medical care.
While financial business sector runs this country into the mud there are those of us no longer circling the drain, we are clogging it with our numbers.
I am so tired of it. Doesn’t this conversation about abortion take place almost every 4 years, without a resolution all can live with?
Its impossible I am allowed freedom of religion if my money is used to kill babies…that denies a fundamental tenet of my religion and, by the way, the Constitutional right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
And Christian Scientists don’t think there should be any medicine. So can they complain about health care existing at all because it violates a fundamental tenet of their religion?
And if I create a religion where a fundamental tenet of my religion is abortion can I complain if the healthcare bill doesn’t cover abortion?
Or maybe religion shouldn’t be relevant at all…
#18, it all makes sense when you realize health care is not about helping individuals. Its about control. Democrats see this as an opportunity to expand government control over more people, and thereby insuring their power forever. Republicans see what the democrats are trying to do, and oppose it for the opposite reasons.
#18
There is no resolution that all can live with….Some people dont want to allow women to choose whether or not to prevent their body from creating their baby, and then there are those that dont want to force women to risk their lives to have an illegal procedure. Either way, abortions will happen.
If you people are unwilling to pay a small price in taxes to allow women the option of having a publicly funded abortion, will you be willing to help pay much more to raise all of these kids? Surely you wont expect someone that is unable to pay for a simple procedure to be able to pay the high cost of raising a child….
#19, way to talk out of your ass. Christian scientists by and large believe in modern medicine just fine, and in many places do the best they can to advance it.
Some of the best hospitals in this country are catholic, and are some of the most modern in the world.
Are their some idiots out their who think that god will help those that don’t help themselves? Sure. Just like their are some atheists who think its ok to persecute someone because of their beliefs.
#21, This is a controversial subject for all involved.
For instance you probably believe that life does not begin at conception. Since you do not think that, then you probably consider a child in the womb a parasite until it is born.
Thats fine, its your opinion. I think you are wrong, but having divergent opinions are what makes good healthy debate.
Personally I don’t know when life begins, and when I don’t know something for sure I err on the side of caution. Many Christians believe that life begins at conception and that an aportion is paramount to murder.
I can see their point as well as yours, and their is no clear cut answer. We just can’t quantify things like a soul, or when a pair of dividing cells become a human child.
I hope you can understand this, and understand why Christians do not want their tax many being used to facilitate what they see as murder of innocents.
This is once again why I say abortion should have been left up to the states, as well as funding for it. I imagine States like California would have lax and probably tax payer funded abortion laws, and states like Georgia would not allow the practice.
#22–partisanBob==name one atheist who has persecuted anyone for being religious.
GO! (stopwatch says 00.01)
23 Bob
“I hope you can understand this, and understand why Christians do not want their tax many being used to facilitate what they see as murder of innocents.”
And then they go a murder doctors and blow up their offices… like a good Christian?
Legal abortion = health safety for women. The rest is garbage.
Hah, hah==partisanBob thinks he is being reasonable by discussing both sides of an issue. But he is a PARTISAN HACK!!!!
Its better than most crap thrown at the issue, but ignorance and religion doesn’t hide the fact it is crap, so lets take a closer look:
#21, This is a controversial subject for all involved. /// Not for me or anyone else who can read and respects long settled law. YOU being upset doesn’t make an issue controversial.
For instance you probably believe that life does not begin at conception. /// Of course it does, if not earlier.
Since you do not think that, then you probably consider a child in the womb a parasite until it is born. /// There is no child, biologically and legally the product of conception you address is called a zygote then a fetus. Child status is reached only after birth. Why not call the fertilized egg a fully functioning adult with all rights thereto?===Because “it” isn’t.
Thats fine, its your opinion. I think you are wrong, but having divergent opinions are what makes good healthy debate. /// No. Good healthy debate is one that is confined to words as defined in the dictionary with some reference to well established facts. You depart from both.
Personally I don’t know when life begins, and when I don’t know something for sure I err on the side of caution. //// No. When you are ignorant you should STOP ARGUING and go learn something.
Many Christians believe that life begins at conception and that an aportion is paramount to murder. /// BINGO. No debate healthy or otherwise. Just the application of dogma.
I can see their point as well as yours, and their is no clear cut answer. /// Yes there is. When parties disagree, the courts provide the answer. Read, ((yes R – E – A – D, something other than the bibbble))
We just can’t quantify things like a soul, /// irrelevant
or when a pair of dividing cells become a human child. /// make google your friend. Child is after infancy and before adult==well after being born. Not consistent with your manipulation of emotive words. Is that good debate???
I hope you can understand this, and understand why Christians do not want their tax many being used to facilitate what they see as murder of innocents. /// Majority wins. USA is founded on the Constitution, not your version of the bibble.
This is once again why I say abortion should have been left up to the states, as well as funding for it. /// Yea sure. Read Roe v Wade.
I imagine States like California would have lax and probably tax payer funded abortion laws, and states like Georgia would not allow the practice. /// And thats why basic human rights need protecting against zealots like you.
Non issue. This is an argument from people who were gonna vote against the bill anyhow. You guys lost your say already. So I don’t know the particulars of this particular nuance, but it doesn’t matter. No one with the political capital to change this is listening. Maybe next time you guys will play your hand a little closer to you chest.
Better luck next time!:)
27 AlfredENewman,
So… a zygote – foetus is now a baby? should you charge women with murder if they get into a car accident and miscarry? Or just manslaughter?
I am against abortions of convenience.
I am not against abortions of necessity (saving the mother, incest, rape, etc.).
I am really against the federal government funding them, just like I am against them funding any medical procedure.
“If you think this a small thing…I’m ready to die…do it…You though Islam alone had martyrs…do it…and learn who we really are…”
Someone call the FBI. AlfredENewman is a terrorist.
Half of the country thinks abortion is murder, and half do not.
I think you can see the problem here.
31 LibertyLover,
Too simplistic. Womens health is not convenience, no matter the reason.
35 AlfredENewman,
“Try to make us pay for abortions, see what happens next:”
Why, you’ll do the Christian thing and murder innocents of course. You’ve claimed it before. You’re a terrorist.
My argument was not a fallacy. What would you do with miscarries? HMMMMMM? Can’t find it in the bible?
#34, If her health is in danger, it is a necessity.
Otherwise, just getting rid of it for convenience’s sake, I am against.