If a child, even if they are illegal immigrant, shows up in an emergency room with tuberculosis and nobody is giving them treatment and then they are going back to the playground and playing next to our kids.
So, I think there is a basic standard of decency where if somebody is in a death situation or a severe illness that we are going to provide them emergency care. But nobody has talked about providing health insurance to illegal immigrants, I want to make that absolutely clear.
Obama basically contradicts himself — care for severe illnesses or life-threatening situations is what health insurance is for! Every time you go to the hospital, you are arguably in a life-threatening situation.
The best part is that one second later he says that his plan does not provide health care to illegal immigrants.
I want to point out that I am not particularly opposed to universal health care, I’m just what the President said.
The last 3 times I went to the hospital, it was not life threatening.
I figured a busted knee, dislocated shoulder and eye injury was not life threatening.
So, stop the BS jump to conclusion and respect our president and leader.
I thought the Christian thing to do was to help those in need, especially the sick and poor. Clearly I was mistaken. Ones portfolio of arms, oil and health insurers are clearly more important than the well-being of your fellow humans.
I’m always amazed, never surprised, by the ridiculousness of people who hear what they want to. I mean, were your friend to just say something like this, you MIGHT clarify it with him or her, or you might let it slide, but you probably wouldn’t get too worked up about it as some major contradiction. Yet, this guy says they have NOT promoted or suggested (talked about) providing COMPLETE and FULL coverage to undocumented residents, tempered by saying we wouldn’t be stupid if some health threat came into a hospital, and the headlines, even here on DU, light up to say there is some controversy.
Boring.
Obama has already let me down. I give up on all of them, but until people bring back the bloodless revolution, maybe we all need to suck it up and accept that we are the designers, by inaction if nothing else, of all of this.
ascot—I’m a conservative—
So you think stating the obvious and trying to appear reasonable gets you some brownie points, and taken seriously as someone with a valid viewpoint?
Wrong. If you’re a conservative you’re a stupid ignorant racist homophobic murderous neandertal who has nothing to contribute. Please die and leave the humans alone.
Get off this forum, you are not wanted.
It is one thing to treat a human being with a clear and present danger to him or her self, and especially if they are a danger to the general population, and another thing completely to provide the institution of a Health Care Plan to individuals who are both illegally in the country and who have signed up for no health care plan.
#39 Vigilante: We think you don’t belong here.
“Obama basically contradicts himself ”
No, he doesn’t and your comment only proves that some people see only what they want to see. Illegal’s are not getting healthcare coverage which is different from healthcare. If you have proof otherwise post it and stop boring us with made up bullshit.
#39, dickhead,
If you’re a conservative you’re a stupid ignorant …
Sorry armpit, but you are the stupid idiot here. There is nothing wrong with being a conservative. You will note, however, that people like Boss Limpdick and Alphie are not conservatives, they are right wing nuts.
It is the assholes like you and pedro that have nothing to contribute.
Guilherme Cherman
Maybe you want to post controversy in order to garner hits. That will only work for a short while. Editors should remain relatively neutral.
Any guesses on how many million more illegal aliens will sneak into the USA to get on the Obama gravy train?
#11 He meant as a patient.
Well maybe you go to the hospital seeking medical aid for trivial reasons, I don’t know, but most people only visit the emergency room if they think it’s serious.
Th video is a classic example of why many, even most Americans no longer believe anything Obama says about health care. What he says is internally inconsistent and nobody in Congress cares what he thinks anyway. If they send him a bill he’ll sign it.
Any claims like his four points are purely talking points and mean nothing.
#46, doill,
Let me post something from another post and let you see how it compares with what you just wrote.
<blockquote# 41 deowll said, on August 20th, 2009 at 8:55 pm
It would appear that a lot of people posting here like to use smear tactics when they run into people who don’t agree with their views.
I don’t admire the tactic or the people that use it. Any cause they support is automatically dubious until proven other wise.
I am not particularly opposed to universal health care either, I just don’t want the government involved in it.
#48–slumbuddy==the government is involved in “everything.” Those programs advocating no government are imaginary.
Welcome to Alfie’s world.
http://nytimes.com/2009/04/01/business/economy/01leonhardt.html
Poor old Alfie. Reading the Canadian Free Press for Conservatives. Haw, Haw. I wonder what came first, rightwing nutbags, or rightwing nutbag media??
Anyhoo, you’all should go to Alfie’s link and see the how this symbiotic illness supports itself.
One right wing blog supporting its warped view by linking to another right wing blog.
If you however go to the original source, the NY Times, shown above, just like “The Death Panel” the actual items says the exact opposite. That is a bit of a misnomer as in the Obama is Just Like Hitler example Alfie serves up, the NYT didn’t come close to saying that or its opposite. What it does say is: “No sane person enjoys mixing nuance and Nazis – – -” which brings us right back to Alfie, except for the nuance part. Blatant lies easy to fact check aren’t really too nuanced.
Ha, ha. Whats it all about Alfie???
#35. Christianity requires that we help those in need (ie. the poor and the sick). But that obligation is between the Christian and the needy. We are not required to give money to an ineffective and corrupt intermediary government. I would rather donate directly to the local charity, hospital, or food bank.
Hospitals provide this care today. Congress and the president haven’t passed a bill yet. Obviously this can’t be part of a bill that doesn’t exist.
Not all hospital visits are DEATH visits. I went to the hospital for a hairline fracture in my pinky finger. I wasn’t dying.
“I want to point out that I am not particularly opposed to universal health care, I’m just what the President said.” – Why not just be honest and admit you don’t like Obama. This is the kind of argument you can find on Fox News. I’m sure you’re familiar with that show.
#52, sparrowscout1998,
We are not required to give money to an ineffective and corrupt intermediary government.
Another Liebertarian lie.
Government in America is democratically chosen. If you chose not to participate or your candidate loses, then it is not your right to take a different path. When society has chosen the path we are taking, it becomes incumbent for ALL of us to take it. In all cases I can think of, that includes paying your share of running society, also known as TAXES.
As for a ineffective, corrupt intermediary government, the Republicans were voted out of office in 2006 and 2008.
I guess that is how you became a sparrowscout by knowing the Constitution.
#22 – Alfie,
Where’d you get that number 83%? Mind sharing a link?
BTW, I would think you of all people would support universal health care. Jesus did. I never heard that he asked for citizenship papers or health insurance before healing the sick.
Of course, your call. I’m not sure Jesus as flesh and blood ever existed.
It just seems to be a major contradiction that you Jesus-freaks are so un-Jesus-like. Let’s see, when voting for the repugs, you are essentially saying all of the following: “Let poor people die for lack of health care.”, “Bomb the other cheek.”, “Wealth is all that counts, we just need a bigger needle to get that camel through.”, etc.
How do you reconcile such shit with your religious beliefs? Don’t such strong contradictions make all three of your neurons hurt?
#28 – ascot,
Nice to hear that there are still conservatives in the world with functioning logic circuits. Thanks. As for your statement about him lying, do you believe that of all politicians (which is probably correct) or do you think Obama is special?
I personally think he comes closer to honesty than most of the ones that get anywhere near the presidency or even those who merely have remotely successful careers.
#31 – jescott418,
The health plan is a thing. It has no wants.
As for no one trying to control real costs, you are not paying attention at all, are you?
Did you not hear Obama trying to get us off this stupid fee-for-service crap and get us into the world of rewarding doctors for effective care?
You really should pay at least a little attention to the issues if you plan to spew your opinions at the world.
#48 – Somebody,
I am not particularly opposed to universal health care either, I just don’t want the government involved in it.
I assume then that no one you know is on medicare, medicaid, or is a veteran. All three of these are already government medical plans. And, precious few who qualify for medicare or medicaid opt out.
So, just who do you think should provide all the universal medical insurance? How about non-profit organizations, as in Switzerland? I’d be OK with that.
What I really don’t want is some dickhead with a profit motive for denying me care deciding what care I get. This is where we are today.
#50 – Alfie,
Godwin’s Law!! You lose.
Do you even realize how insulting it is to survivors of the holocaust to compare a man who is trying to provide universal health care for our nation to a man who systematically tortured and killed 12 million people?
I’ve had more interesting conversations with a dining room table.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYlZiWK2Iy8
Obama’s campaign pitch for health care reform is this:
The system is broken. It needs to be redone wholesale.
Oh and the parts you like won’t be changed. I never suggested that. Anyone who says I did are lying.
#61 – Alfie the MegaParanoid,
Don’t worry, it’s just the end times … and we’re all hoping you get caught up in the rupture … the sooner the better.
#62 – Alfie,
Contradiction? Really? How about if we word it just slightly differently to reflect reality?
Health care via private insurance is broken. However, too many idiots don’t see that and want to stick with their current system. Let’s create a choice and as people see that the public option is better, they will move to it.
Why do you think the private insurance companies are so scared of a public option?
Because, they suck, they know it, and they want to keep on sucking all of our money out of the economy for as long as they can.
Emergency rooms are now required to provide service to *anyone* who shows up with a need for emergency care. That will not change under any proposed system of health care, nor should it.
I wonder: would the Republicans be so against this plan if the public option would be voluntary? IE, you could sign up for free healthcare, pay your own way, or choose to go uninsured? (In much the same way as, say, you could call the police if someone broke into your house, file a civil complaint, or just ignore it.)
Methinks yes, but ah! There’s the rub, for it exposes the lie: This isn’t about Big Government getting all up in your business (After all – you can opt out of government’s nose in your business!), but about Big Business getting to keep its profit margins.
#66 – Alfie,
What the polls show is that 39% of people who are lucky enough to have insurance are dissatisfied with the amount they pay.
On the obvious assumption that we can add the 16% that do not have any coverage to that number, we’re at 55% dissatisfied.
http://tinyurl.com/lhx2ej
Note that they did not distinguish between satisfaction with medicare, medicaid, medi-cal, or the VA in those numbers. Nor did they check a difference in satisfaction among those with government insurance versus those with private insurance.
So, we have 55% dissatisfied now. Do you not call that broken? Even at only 39% dissatisfied, I call that broken.
As for competition, we have it now. Here’s a list of health insurance companies:
http://tinyurl.com/m8ma4h
* Aetna
* American Association of Retired Persons
* American Family Insurance
* American National Insurance Company
* Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield
* Assurant
* Blue Cross and Blue Shield Association
* Cigna
* Fortis
* Golden Rule Insurance Company
* Group Health Cooperative
* Health Net
* HealthMarkets
* Humana Inc.
* Independent Health
* Intermountain Health Care
* Kaiser Permanente
* LifeWise Health Plan of Oregon
* Premera
* Principal Financial Group
* Regence Group
* Scott & White
* Shelter Insurance Companies
* Thrivent Financial for Lutherans
* UnitedHealth Group
* Unitrin
* Wellpoint
So, we see what the so-called free market (not that we’ve ever actually had one for anything) has given us. Why expect change from the people that got us where we are?
Doing the same thing again and again and again and expecting different results each time is a definition of insanity.
#67 – Alex,
I wonder: would the Republicans be so against this plan if the public option would be voluntary?
It is. Sign up for it or any plan you like. Even with the increase in people signing up for health insurance, the insurance companies know that most will not choose private insurance, so they oppose this. A public option would show just how bad they are and give an option for something better. They can’t have that. And, apparently, the own all of the repugnicans and quite a few democraps, so the insurance companies win.
They also have a great propaganda machine. Look at how many people right here on this blog are convinced that paying more for less than every other country in the world is a good thing.
Yum. Kool Aid.
Here’s the only poll I was able to find that compared satisfaction with medicare versus private insurance. Note that they asked people about billing and access problems. Medicare recipients are far more likely to require medical care than those with employer funded plans, the latter group being on average much younger and healthier.
Still, even with a younger healthier crowd having private insurance, they reported more access problems and more billing problems than those in the medicare group.
This sure sounds to me as if medicare beats the crap out of private insurance.
Can anyone find a poll from gallup or some other major polling institution? I can’t. I wonder why.
http://tinyurl.com/m4qpnt
I did find this comparing satisfaction with health coverage in U.S., Canada, and Britain.
http://tinyurl.com/nveq7k
I know you’ll be shocked, but once again, the U.S. system is the worst. Both of the single payer systems kicked our ass.
>Let’s create a choice and as people see that the public option is better, they will move to it.
Not sure why people don’t accept this when it comes to light bulbs.