On today’s “Morning Meeting with Dylan Ratigan” on MSNBC, Iowa Senator Charles Grassley, ranking member of the Senate Finance Committee, said that even if the
committee’s final version of a health insurance reform bill gives him everything he says he wants, he will vote against it.
When NBC’s Chuck Todd, in a follow-up question on the show, asked the Iowa Republican if he’d vote against what Grassley might consider to be a “good deal” — i.e., gets everything he asks for from Senate Finance Chairman Max Baucus (D) — Grassley replied, “It isn’t a good deal if I can’t sell my product to more Republicans.”
In short, Grassley says he’s willing to walk away from legislation in which he gets everything he wants. Over to you, Max Baucus…
Why won’t our politicians lead nowadays? Is it really that hard to explain to your constituents why unpopular legislation should be passed? It seems that everyone’s afraid to stick their necks out on anything.
Yes, I think the worst evaluations of Obama flow from his naive effort to change the political “culture” of Washington DC. by “working with” the repuglicans.
They need to be recognized for what they are and exposed. Their lying hypocrisy laid bare. The self injurious policies they are foisting on their voting base.
Pretending other people have valid points, only destroys your own.
Money talks. Don’t piss off your financial overlords.
Little by little we have let the elected morons take our rights from us. There are plenty of simple things that can be done to improve healthcare. 1,000 pages of crap that no one can understand is no cure for anything. Why are they not on this plan if it’s so great? The least they could do is test it on themselves. How about just legislating major medical instead of taking control of every aspect?
#3–bob===”How about just legislating major medical instead of taking control of every aspect? /// What does that mean? What does every aspect mean? Ambiguous, overstated, straw man.
I assume you are against single payer, even government option? There are two major concerns: accelerating cost inflation making the service unavailable to most, and our current system’s cost making the service unavailable to too many.
Does your ambiguous, overstated, straw man solution address either of these issues?
“Why won’t our politicians lead nowadays? Is it really that hard to explain to your constituents why unpopular legislation should be passed?”
Um, because in a representative republic we send people to that fever swamp on the Potomac to REPRESENT us, not LEAD us. Especially in the legislative branch.
“Is it really that hard to explain to your constituents why unpopular legislation should be passed?” /// I thought the issue was explaining why “POPULAR” legislation should be passed?
The uneven effects of winner take all primaries is a different subject. Related, but different.
Way to buy into the Repuglican spin.
#5–spam==how can anyone “represent” a mix of conflicting desires? OBVIOUSLY, the congressperson must evaluate the situation, decide what position is best for (X) and then LEAD his fellow congress people (ie – not X) to get it done.
X=the country, his district, his main contributors, his largest voting block, those single issue voters.
“Representative” of the people’s wishes really is mindless BS.
““Representative” of the people’s wishes really is mindless BS.”
Yeah, fuck that Constitution bullshit, and all that. It’s just a goddamned piece of paper. You’re right, bobbo, let’s just let our overlords do as they want.
His nickname is Dick. Not because of the middle name “Richard.”
@#4 Though bob may not have explained his thoughts in a great way, I get it, no straw man:
Govt. job is to regulate. Govt. job is not to run business or health care,… So, instead of inventing inappropriate Govt. bureaucratic systems, legislators should do what they are there to do: regulate health insurance. If done properly every aspect Obama wants to cover can be done. Govt. also should not force any business or individual to provide or have health insurance “approved by Govt.” at the risk of punishment by taxes. Such idiotic social engineering should be banned as Govt. should not social-engineer us. That is also not their job.
Now to the cost. Simple Govt. REGULATION could solve bad place where people who can’t afford market-driven prices of insurance find themselves (I don’t remember where I heard it first, but it doesn’t matter, idea is simple and effective): Give doctors tax credit for everything they do for free for uninsured. No thousands of bureaucrats. No non comprehensible books of rules of what can be done and how created by dimwits. Simple direct tax credit for procedure doctors find appropriate to treat uninsured. But than, how can Govt. keep their hand on the throats of doctors and population with so simple and effective solution in hand. Only reason not to do this is to keep power of decision in Govt. hand.
The double standard really pisses me off.
The Democrats freak out when they vote for an unpopular war, but then want them to vote for an unpopular social program?
Same goes for Neo-cons, but in reverse.
Two clear sides to this issue. The Obama side, and the Republican side. Guess who loses? Both sides. Time to dump Republicans and Democrats. Why are Senators elected for life? Why are Representatives elected for life? No matter which party. The system is gamed, and they don’t want anything changed, so nothing will change.
Pay for your own damn medical insurance, people, or don’t expect medical care. It was that way for centuries and centuries. Utopia, promised by the new administration, ain’t coming.
#12–dusanmal==thanks. The government does however directly provide many services seen as “essential” that are also deemed inappropriate for a number of reasons for the private marketplace to provide.
Health Care has proven itself to be such an activity.
I see no reason for this essential conclusion to be ignored by a daisy chain of tax convolutions aimed at keeping Insurance Companies in Business.
THE PURPOSE OF HEALTH CARE is to provide HEALTH CARE. Not jobs for Ins Co, Doctors, or maintaining a voting block for politicians.
Faxon–can’t you do any better?
I am embarrassed that Obama can’t adequately show Americans and expose the Business Shenanigans of private insurance companies.
I am embarrassed a Harvard educated lawyer can’t win a simple debate when all the facts are on his side. Instead he enables his opponents to openly lie and win.
I can’t understand why Obama doesn’t go and very publicly meet with Stan Brock, the founder of Remote Area Medical, during one of his many Free Health Clinic events.
I want to see Obama publicly answer questions by the many participants of these Free Health Clinic events.
I want to see Obama publicly answer questions from family members of those recently denied treatment by those with heath insurance.
REPRESENTATIVE government.
Need a refresher?
Most Americans don’t want politicians running their health care… we simply don’t trust them.
And in a constitutionally enumerated limited government system, there simply isn’t a legitimate place for federal control of health care.
Well, goodness gracious. A guy who doesn’t want to upset his chances for future candidacy, even if it kills his constituents.
The gutless repugs don’t lead because they are part of a mob. Also described as a conspiracy whose first priority is self preservation. Their individual self respect is such that they happily admit to being individually spineless.
#17:
So some other countries, according to one measure, have “better” health care than we do. Big deal.
Better by how much?
I see these lists, and it’s always something like, well, our life span is a year or two less than the top country.
Who cares.
I’d chalk that sort of thing up to having a lot of dumb people in America, and I’d bet that most of our low ranking is due to people voluntarily making poor choices – like smoking, or not exercising, or driving.
Why do we have to be top on that list?
I have an owie on my finger. Kiss it and make it better, BO.
I did hear one Democrat say he was going to vote for the government option even though the people who elected him don’t want him to.
A wonderful reason to not re-elect anyone.
#25 Deowll – Yep. Even if his constituents do NOT want it, Eric Massa (Dem – NY) is gonna vote for the bill. Representative government at it’s finest. ‘ “I will vote adamantly against the interests of my district” on health care…’
http://tiny.cc/pDqm6 (bonus: political cartoon on that page)
WTF ever happened to CHANGE?
Something must happen to these people when they get to Washington!
Or they are truly OWNED by someone other than the people who voted for them.
Either way, we (you and me) are the biggest SUCKERS on this puny little planet.
W H A T an asshat!
#23:
“In what way is the screaming campaign at most of the town hall meetings different from…”
the anti-war protests?
Again, I don’t understand why the technique is OK in one case but not the other.
The screaming is because these “representatives” are still trying to sell the bill instead of listen to their constituents.
The health care reform is necessary. You want your children to have a chance to get to doctor when needed? In next twenty years number of old people will double and who will pay for their medicines? Our society is becoming old and there is nothing we can do about it (except mass murder – and that is not good solution). We need solutions now, so the future could be saved. Many people don’t see that because care only about their small business. But next years will show that without proper reform the whole system will collapse one day.
#29–brm==”Again, I don’t understand why the technique is OK in one case but not the other.” /// Rule are sometimes difficult to determine in these emotional issues but certainly whether activity is based on a lie or the truth, on money or your life, could be examples of how two similar things may be different?
Yelling down Healthcare because of the lie of Death Panels IS VERY DIFFERENT from yelling down the lies of how well we are doing in Vietnam and being drafted in said wars efforts?
I’ll leave it to your good determination on whether or not such REAL differences should affect the question at hand.
#22 “I’d chalk that sort of thing up to having a lot of dumb people in America, and I’d bet that most of our low ranking is due to people voluntarily making poor choices – like smoking, or not exercising, or driving.”
Because people in other countries don’t smoke or drive.
Whenever someone says something like this, I want to ask: what do you think people do in these countries? Eat tofu and do yoga all day? They smoke, they drink, they eat junk food, they drive, they have unprotected sex, etc.
#31:
“Yelling down Healthcare because of the lie of Death Panels”
straw man. This is just one argument of many, and the only one the Dems think their constituents have.
But lets ignore everyone concerned about a government that bankrupts every other major program or about how much money this thing costs.
They’re all crazy!
(btw: this whole thing reminds me of the Patriot Act.)
#22
“So some other countries, according to one measure, have “better” health care than we do. Big deal.
Better by how much?
I see these lists, and it’s always something like, well, our life span is a year or two less than the top country.”
“I’d chalk that sort of thing up to having a lot of dumb people in America, and I’d bet that most of our low ranking is due to people voluntarily making poor choices – like smoking, or not exercising, or driving.”
WHO’s assessment system was based on five indicators: overall level of population health; health inequalities (or disparities) within the population; overall level of health system responsiveness (a combination of patient satisfaction and how well the system acts); distribution of responsiveness within the population (how well people of varying economic status find that they are served by the health system); and the distribution of the health system’s financial burden within the population (who pays the costs).
::only one of the five criteria had to do with making bad choices
“Who cares.”
::apparently lots of people check on the news build up around this. You for one if you lost or don’t have coverage and need healthcare or if you want our county to be competitive in a global market.
“Why do we have to be top on that list?”
::U S A U S A We’re Number One! We’re Number One!
::Seriously you have to ask have you ever been sick? had a loved one who was sick? Would you want the health care system of Burma or France to take out your appendix?
::Our system is in a tailspin and unsustainable. I’ not trying to use a scare tactic that’s would be a cheap right wing trick. I’m simply taking the numbers from the last few decades and projecting them forward assuming we have no change.
#32–brm==I wonder if mere words can demonstrate for you just how WRONG you are. Not wrong in an argumentative ego driven way. Simply wrong, as in you have shit for brains.
Lets Analyze:
1. “Yelling down Healthcare because of the lie of Death Panels”
straw man. This is just one argument of many, /// Now, “Straw Man” means addressing something that wasn’t said. This is directly contradicted when you say it is just one argument of many–which is exactly what I said. Calling one argument of many when you asked for arguments a “straw man” really makes you sound like an idiot. Try to rephrase and tell us what you might have been thinking of?
2. and the only one the Dems think their constituents have. /// That might be straw man with a hidden assumption. If it is a correct argument, what would it matter if it was the only one? You really are babbling incoherently.
3. But lets ignore everyone concerned about a government that bankrupts every other major program /// That is a different and additional argument having nothing to do with the first point. The deficit effects of the Obama Proposals are admitted up front. Yelling about the deficit bankrupting America is not yelling about a lie, it is arguably the truth and so not at all within the ambit of the point I made. This very fact is one of my own main disagreements with Obama’s program.
4. or about how much money this thing costs. /// Rather redundant when we have both agreed and Obama Admits it creates a 1.4-2.4 Trillion deficit. Do you think such repetition adds to your irrelevant point in any way?
They’re all crazy! /// Rather floating all on its own. I see several crazy groups.
(btw: this whole thing reminds me of the Patriot Act.) /// More free floating angst?
brm===you argue like a silly person who doesn’t understand the meanings of the words/concepts he uses much less the construct of a sound argument. Please do better in your following posts, or really, you’ll have to be put on the Alfie list.